When will the 4E optimization start?

[AlienFromBeyond]

I see that it has already begun on the WotC forums despite being a pain to get to. I know some of you have access to this stuff, through out your ideas, here or at the 4E forum off in D&D Deliberations.

[StruckingFuggle]

Someone posted something sometime back on 4chan (where I've been observing the shitstorm that is the reaction to 4e). It is now lost to time, but I saw it beginning.

[Tshern]

Has anyone here already received their share of 4e? I got mine today, but haven't started reading up to it yet, that is going to happen tonight.

[jameswilliamogle]

I haven't worked out the high level stuff, but this is what I was going to start with in a new game:

Human Cleric
Sacred Flames, Righteous Brand, Lance of Faith (at will)
Wrathful Thunder (per encounter)
Guardian of Faith (per day)
Action Surge, Ritual Caster, TBD... (feats)
Religion, Heal, Arcana, Insight (skills)

Basically, a melee Cleric w/ some summoning and rituals.  I know I'll take CLW at 2nd, but other than that I don't have much of a clue (mainly b/c I haven't had time to look at everything).

I don't think the Human's bonus at-will power is worth it... but the defensive bonuses and extra skill is.  Not sure about the feat...  Action Surge seems pretty awesome, though, which is a great reason to play a Human; I might add Power Attack in, even though its much weaker in 4th ed.

[X-Codes]

4e was sent out early to some people who ordered the books online via a non-WotC source.

I think 4e optimization will really start when we hit the second week of June, when everyone that's reserved a copy of the core set will get their books regardless of where they order from (mine should be arriving the 10th, but shipping stuff here takes an insanely long time compared to the mainland).

[AlienFromBeyond]

I might add Power Attack in, even though its much weaker in 4th ed.

I think it is still most definitely worth it if you use a two-handed weapon. One-handed, not worth it in Heroic tier IMO.

[jameswilliamogle]

I might add Power Attack in, even though its much weaker in 4th ed.

I think it is still most definitely worth it if you use a two-handed weapon. One-handed, not worth it in Heroic tier IMO.

This was my thinking too... between Action Boost and the other damage enhancers, there could still be some great output.

One question:  when an ability says, for example "2[W]+Constitution Modifier" does this mean I calculate the weapon damage, double it, THEN add my Con modifier?  Would the PA modifier be doubled?  Do you add Str normally?

[heffroncm]

With 2W, you double the Weapon Dice, nothing else.  No modifiers, no bonus dice, nothing.

[AlienFromBeyond]

I might add Power Attack in, even though its much weaker in 4th ed.

I think it is still most definitely worth it if you use a two-handed weapon. One-handed, not worth it in Heroic tier IMO.

This was my thinking too... between Action Boost and the other damage enhancers, there could still be some great output.

One question:  when an ability says, for example "2[W]+Constitution Modifier" does this mean I calculate the weapon damage, double it, THEN add my Con modifier?  Would the PA modifier be doubled?  Do you add Str normally?

Yes, no, no if I understand the first question. Example: Attacking with Falchion with a power that does said 2[W] + Con mod while having 16 Con and Power Attacking in Heroic tier. You would do 4d4 (2 x Weapon) + 3 (Con mod) + 3 (PA) damage.

[jameswilliamogle]

OK! Well, that does reduce some of the value of PA, but I think they were wise to remove the multipliers on the "static" bonuses.

[AlienFromBeyond]

OK! Well, that does reduce some of the value of PA, but I think they were wise to remove the multipliers on the "static" bonuses.

Well, in Epic tier, for a Heroic feat, you get -2 to hit for +9 damage if you're using a two-handed weapon. Seems pretty nice to me. Even a one-handed one will get +6 damage, still worth it IMO.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

An OEF of all three books got leaked to the Torrents, too.

I'm trying out a slider-focus: Tiefling Rogue with the Infernal Wrath upgrade feat, Deft and Piercing strikes, Positioning Strike, and the slidy daily.  Should be interesting.

[cafiend]

It is sad, I'm already curious what the first 'splat' style books will do to expand on existing classes....and I haven't even finished reading the base books.

[Tshern]

An OEF of all three books got leaked to the Torrents, too.

Unsurprisingly. Doesn't that happen with, like, everything? Good thing some people got their Player's Dand Fooks a bit early.

[pfooti]

Well, in support of the torrent: I wasn't going to buy the 4e books, but having previewed them in PDF form, I will. It is kind of neat to read them before they're out officially, but that will wear off sooner or later anyway, since the books are already shipping from some internet retailers, I hear.

But to answer the earlier question, there are two major constraints right now: lack of splats and lack of modules. I think it's really the latter that's an issue. There seems to be enough Crunch in the core books to make CO discussions worthwhile right there. We can chat about interesting powers, and synergies between them. Even if it's party optimization, it's interesting (I do X, and then my buddy does Y, and hoo-boy, does it kick butt!) The problem right now is that there just isn't enough practical playtime experience with the game for us (or me at least) to really start thinking about things like the Warlord Handbook. I can think about stuff in theory, but I'd far rather have some practical experience before I make any judgments.

[cafiend]

I'm mildly hopeful that a lot of the power comes from synergy between characters now more so than individual character's power, but sorting that out will take much more pondering.

[jameswilliamogle]

We can start by posting 4E builds.  Once we've got a good feel of the individual class strengths, we can start thinking about synergy.  Then we can start thinking about multiclass options.

I'm going to work on a new version of a melee Cleric, since I plan on playing one.

[Tshern]

Mark my words, my first character will so totally be a Cleric of Asmodeus.

[Llochlyn]

My first character will be... Ah, who am I kidding, I'll be the DM again ! 

It would be a Warlock with Star Pact. Don't know if it's efficient at all, but a pact with creatures of the Far Realms always makes me happy, and the debuffing abilities + skillset of the class are seducing

[Banor]

Probably gonna be something like a Dragonborn Inspiring Warlord/Paladin multiclass. Seem pretty cool, I love Dragonborn so far, they look totally awesome on paper