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Author Topic: Psi-Archer Character Advice  (Read 1454 times)
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Zombieboots
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« on: May 06, 2009, 12:29:14 PM »

Campaign Overview.
  • My goal to create a workable Archer/Psion
  • Greyhawk world with hint of the Planes. No Eberron, or Forgotten Realm without approval.
  • Dragon Magazines and Web enchantments are allowed but over use is discouraged.
  • Hyperconscious and Untapped Potential were sadly not allowed when I asked.
    Which is a shame because they look really good and my computer suffered to retrieve them.
  • Retraining is not practiced in our campaigns. – Psychic reformat, Shun/Embrace Dark Choas, and the like are allowed provide all spell casting services are paid for.
  • Heavy seafaring: Pirates, Seamonsters, etc, If that is relevant.
  • The Campaign is foreseen to be a short one. Starting at level 10, and ending at around level 12-13.
House
  • Ranger and Slayer Favoured Enemy has been allowed to stack thus increases in damage (etc) the same way a rangers does whenever a Favoured Enemy is gained normally from ranger levels.
  • Psi-Crystal: Arguments presented here about Psicystals gaining feat progression were Ok’ed by the DM. If my final build includes a Psicrystals- it will be allowed to gain feats.

Character
Base stats rolled: 16, 16, 15, 14, 13, 10. Stats may be rerolled if needed but not until later this week.
Build: Ranger 1 / Psychic Warrior 2 / Ardent 3 / Slayer 4-6
Progression Rng 1 / PsiWr 1 / Ardent 3 / Psiwr +1 / Slayer 4-6

Strongheart Halfing
Str 14, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 18**, Cha 10
Alt: Str 12, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 18**, Cha 10
*Stat Bonus


1 - Track (b), Point Blank Shot (H), Precise Shot (F), Rapid Shot(1), Favoured Enemy (Arcanists), Flaw: City Slicker
2 - Zen Archery (b)
3 – Practiced Manifestor(3)
4 - Psicrystal Affinity
6 – Expanded Knowhow (Dimension Swap) (6)
7 – Favoured (Abberation)**
9 - Manyshot (9)
10 – Favoured
---
12 - Linked Power? / Ancestral Relic?

Grit:
Powers:
Ardent Powers (10th)
Mantles: Freedom, Time, Consumption
3 - Dimension Hop
3 - Hustle
5 - Feat Leech
6 - Time Hop
8 - Fly, Psionic
9 - Teleport, Psionic
10- Anticipatory Strike
EK - Dimension Swap
      
Psychic Warrior
1 - Vigor (CL2)
2 - Force Screen (CL2)

Psi-Crystal
1 - Inertial Armor

Tattoos:
Strength of my Enemy (CL 5)
Psionic Weapon (CL5)
Dissolving Weapon (CL3)

Time: You gain a +2 bonus on initiative checks. In addition, once per day, you can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to delay the onset of one damaging attack or effect. Instead of taking the damage immediately, as normal, you take it 1 round later. If, in the intervening turn, you gain some immunity that would have protected you from the damage, it does not protect you from the delayed damage. You are subject to the damage as if you had taken it when the blow or effect was struck.   
Freedom: While psionically focused, you gain a +10-foot bonus to your speed. You can expend your focus to add your manifester level to a roll made to resist being grappled or to escape from a grapple.               
Consumption: You can expend your focus as an immediate action to gain 5 temporary hit points when someone within 10 feet is wounded. These temporary hit points last for up to 1 minute.

Skill Ranks
Concentration    13
Craft    5
Knowledge (Local)   5
Listen    13
Move Silently    4
Search    8
Spot    12
Survival    5
Tumble    0.5
Use Magic Device    0
Autohypnosis   5
Psicraft   4

Psi-crystal

1 - Hidden Talent
3 - Point Blank Shot
6 - Psionic Shot
9 - Psionic Meditation
----
12- Fell Shot
*Feats are leeched using Feat Leech power during combat.

Items:
Budget 49,000 GP

Bow of the Wintermoon   3,400 GP
Collision       6,000 GP
Deepcrystal      1,000 GP
Monk's Belt      13,000 GP
Item of Wisdom (+2)   4,000 GP
Gloves of the Master Strategist 3,600 GP
Steadfast Boots    1,400 GP
Piercer Cloak of Resistance   --
(Cloak of Resistance +2   4,000 GP)
(Piercer Cloak      900 GP)
Healing Belt(Psicrystal)750 GP
Tatoos
   Pattern 1    2,950 GP
   Pattern 2    2,950 GP
   Pattern 3    2,100 GP
   Pattern 4   300 GP
Wands
   Hunter's Mercy, Eternal   460 GP
   Cure Light      750 GP
Ammo: 20 cold iron arrows 2 GP, 20 silver arrows 41 GP, 10 Adamantine arrows 601 GP, 100 MW crystal-tipped arrows 605 GP, 100 arrows 5 GP

187 GP remaining
Tattoos:
Pattern 1
Strength of my Enemy (CL 6)
Psionic Weapon (CL5)
Relay
Capacitor

Pattern 2   
Strength of my Enemy (CL 6)
Psionic Weapon (CL5)
Relay
Capacitor

Pattern 3   
Integrated Circuit
Mental Taps
Transducer

Pattern 4
Dissolving Weapon (CL3)

Advice is most certainly appreciated, please and thank you.

Edit: Updated 4
« Last Edit: May 12, 2009, 09:14:40 AM by Zombieboots » Logged

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Ivory Knight
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 01:47:44 PM »

Why no Psionic Shot?
Also Zen Archery is useless, if your Dex is as good, as your Wis.

Ardent would get you more PP, but gains no Bonus Feats and is limited to powers from his Mantles(3 for 2 Levels, 4 for 5 Levels).
My Build would be something like: Ranger 1/ Ardent 1/ Ranger +1/Fighter 1-2/ Ardent +1-2/ Slayer 4-5

Lvl 1: Hidden Talent(choose something, you can't get from your Mantles)
Lvl 3: Practiced Manifester

Conflict Mantle can get you Weapon Focus(I suggest Freedom & either Time or Force).
I delayed the 2nd Level of Ardent, to get access to 3rd Level Powers(Manifesterlevel 5+ is all you need^^).

The Good:
- More PP(+10 or +20)
- More Fav. Enemy(+4 from Slayer 4)
- 2 granted Powers from Mantles(Conflict gave Weapon Focus as Bonus Feat)
- Powers of up to 5th Level(Manifester Level 9-10)

The Bad:
1 less Bonus Feat(if Fighter 1)
or
1 dead level(if Ardent 3 or Slayer 5)

The Ugly:
- Very limited selection of Powers

Edit: Naturally, the ACF from PsyWar isn't availible for the Ardent. I guess, this is bad?
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 03:11:42 PM »

Why no Psionic Shot?
Also Zen Archery is useless, if your Dex is as good, as your Wis.

Ardent would get you more PP, but gains no Bonus Feats and is limited to powers from his Mantles(3 for 2 Levels, 4 for 5 Levels).
My Build would be something like: Ranger 1/ Ardent 1/ Ranger +1/Fighter 1-2/ Ardent +1-2/ Slayer 4-5

Lvl 1: Hidden Talent(choose something, you can't get from your Mantles)
Lvl 3: Practiced Manifester

Conflict Mantle can get you Weapon Focus(I suggest Freedom & either Time or Force).
I delayed the 2nd Level of Ardent, to get access to 3rd Level Powers(Manifesterlevel 5+ is all you need^^).

The Good:
- More PP(+10 or +20)
- More Fav. Enemy(+4 from Slayer 4)
- 2 granted Powers from Mantles(Conflict gave Weapon Focus as Bonus Feat)
- Powers of up to 5th Level(Manifester Level 9-10)

The Bad:
1 less Bonus Feat(if Fighter 1)
or
1 dead level(if Ardent 3 or Slayer 5)

The Ugly:
- Very limited selection of Powers

Edit: Naturally, the ACF from PsyWar isn't availible for the Ardent. I guess, this is bad?
Sounds familiar. Wink

I'd take one less level of non-manifesting classes. You have lost 5 in your build, meaning you're actually behind on the levels of powers you learn.

Also, Psiwarrior/Ardent multiclasses work very well. It's not either/or. They both use the same manifesting stat, same power point pool, and the bonus feats can benefit the Ardent side. Something like Ranger1/Psiwarrior2/Ardent 3/Slayer 9/whatever 8 (probably more Ardent) would get you some bonus feats and still give you full Ardent manifesting (minus a few power points and powers known). Stagger the levels so you always take a level or Ardent (or gain a virtual one from Slayer) on your odd character levels, so you don't fall behind on the level of powers you can manifest. Like this:

1 Ranger 1 (for skill points)
2 Ardent 1 Two 1st level powers
3 Ardent 2 2nd level power
4 Psiwarrior 1 Feat, 1st PW level power
5 Ardent 3 3rd level power
6 PW 2 Feat, 1st PW level power
7 Slayer 1
8 Slayer 2 4th level Ardent power
etc.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 03:18:04 PM by PhaedrusXY » Logged

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...thanks
BowenSilverclaw
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« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2009, 06:28:47 AM »

How about adding Strength Of My Enemy to your list of powers and getting that bow that automatically adjusts its strength rating? (I forgot the name and book, but I'm sure someone here knows which one I'm talking about...)

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woodenbandman
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« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2009, 09:02:05 AM »

Why no Soulbow? Web enhancements are allowed, and Soulbow IS a good dip. Rather than taking ranger, take some soulknife and then dip Soulbow. Too lazy to link you up, so google "Soulbow."
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Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2009, 11:14:13 AM »

"Bow of the Wintermoon" (3400 gp; in the MIC) is a composite longbow that auto-adjusts to your Strength rating. Add strength of my enemy to it, and your damage will scale the more hits you get in (also a nice debuff).

You could also make it a deep crystal bow (1000 gp), elvencraft (which, for 300 gp, will allow you to use it as a quarterstaff, from RotW), and nab the Item Familiar or Ancestral Weapon feats, which should allow you to augment the bow without an XP cost, and you won't have to rely on crafters.

Also, check the Magic Item Compendium. There are a number of items in there you might be interested in which will allow you to deal additional damage to your foes. A piercer cloak (900 gp, adds +1d6 dmg when you're on higher ground than your enemies; add it to a cloak of resistance without the +50% gp penalty and great for flying archers), greater weapon augmentation crystal of energy assault (6000 gp; acid or electricity, for preference; adds +1d6 dmg, and penalizes those stricken), or gauntlets of giantfelling (2000 gp, which deals additional damage (+1, 2, or 3d6) depending on the side difference between you and your foe).

There are others, but those are the cheapest ones I can think of off-hand.

Also, check out the chronocharms.

(Also, Greater/Psionic Shot.)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 11:20:47 AM by Lycanthromancer » Logged

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Ivory Knight
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« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2009, 11:46:01 AM »

PhaedrusXY is right, I overlooked that the first Level of Slayer has no manifesting progression Embarrassed
I guess, that means 1 less Feat than the PsyWar-Build.

BTW: I didn't use PsyWar(or Feat Rogue^^), to get full BaB(only lost 1 to Ardent).
The Bonusfeats and additional 1st Lvl Powers may be a good Tradeoff, but I like to fire more Arrows per Round(and hit without Fell Shot).

@ Phaedrus:
Seen your build for the first time, when I clicked on the Link^^
I used some of the Stuff from my Warforged Ardent/ Incarnate(focused on ranged Attacks too, but uses Energymantle and Armbow instead of Bow).

@ woodenbandman:
Ranger is there for Track(Slayer needs that), Skills(helps with Slayer) and Rapidshot(nice to have).

@  Lycanthromancer:
Good catch on the Bow, I even looked up the Errata(Wasn't that Bow meant to be 10 times the listed Price?).
The same Bow from Complete Divine is seriously overpriced at 36.300 gp Mad
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Zombieboots
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2009, 12:20:12 PM »

Ardent does seems to lend itself out to specifically multiclassed characters with the way it gains powers. I am also going to have to add psionic shot to the orginal build up there because it's a pre-req for Fell shot.

Strength Of My Enemy is very interesting, and Bow of the Wintermoon frees up a lot of money if I can use the PA option with out needing to activate the relic shtick.

No reason for no Soulbow I simply felt that I would have preferred a "real" psionic class, however if I am giving up progression in Soulbound-Psi-Warrior there is no real reason not to take it. I suppose the deciding question becomes do I want to take advantage of Strength of My Enemy or use Wisdom for damage?

Would Psycarnum Blade apply to all attacks done with Rapid/Many shot?

Testing the waters with Soulknife.
Soulknife 2 / Ranger 2 / Ardent 2 / Soulbow 1 / Psi-Warrior 2 / Slayer 3
I thought this up in about 10-15 minutes.
Soulknife 2 / Ranger 2 / Ardent 2 / Soulbow 1 / Psi-Warrior 1 / Slayer 1 / Psi Warrior +1
Slayer from there.
1 - Weapon Focus (b), Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot , Hidden Talent (Something)
3 - Psionic Meditation
4 - Track (b)
5 - Rapid Shot (b)
6 - Practice Manifestor (Ardent) x1
8 - Zen Archery (b)
9 - Practice Manifestor (Ardent) x2 (b), Expanded Knowledge (For ... something)
10- Many Shot (b)
12- Undecided

Mantles: Time, Freedom, Consumption
*alternately swap Psionic Meditation out for Psicrystal Affinity, and give Psi-Meditation to the crystal plus other feats.
What is Hidden Talents Manifesting level?

Hmn I do not like this, low BAB, and low to hit without use of Powers. Skill sets are very erratic. 12/12 Ardent casting though.

Ardent Suggestion
Ranager 1 / Ardent 3 / Psi-Warrior 2 / Slayer 6
1 – Track (b), Point Blank, Rapid Shot
3 – Zen Archery
4 – Psionic Shot(b)
6 – Practive Manifestor (Ardent)(b), Expanded Knowhow (Strength of my Enemy)
9 – Many Shot
12 – Fell Shot or Greater Psishot

I like this better its simply and strong. BAB 10, 12/12 Ardent casting, good Fort / Will. I would really like to squeeze a Psi-crystal in there however, I seem to be hung up on the idea.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 12:30:55 PM by Zombieboots » Logged

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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2009, 12:35:57 PM »

"Bow of the Wintermoon" (3400 gp; in the MIC) is a composite longbow that auto-adjusts to your Strength rating. Add strength of my enemy to it, and your damage will scale the more hits you get in (also a nice debuff).
Holy crap, for 3400 GP, that bow is a steal! Yoink! Adding that to my build. Big Grin
Quote
Also, check the Magic Item Compendium. There are a number of items in there you might be interested in which will allow you to deal additional damage to your foes. A piercer cloak (900 gp, adds +1d6 dmg when you're on higher ground than your enemies; add it to a cloak of resistance without the +50% gp penalty and great for flying archers), greater weapon augmentation crystal of energy assault (6000 gp; acid or electricity, for preference; adds +1d6 dmg, and penalizes those stricken), or gauntlets of giantfelling (2000 gp, which deals additional damage (+1, 2, or 3d6) depending on the side difference between you and your foe).
These are great suggestions too. The piercer cloak is a no-brainer for my archer (has Psionic Fly from the Freedom Mantle). I might get the gauntlets, also. I've tried looking through the MiC, but there is so much stuff in there...
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
Brainpiercing
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2009, 12:41:22 PM »

Why no Soulbow? Web enhancements are allowed, and Soulbow IS a good dip. Rather than taking ranger, take some soulknife and then dip Soulbow. Too lazy to link you up, so google "Soulbow."
there was that build that went something like:

Ranger2/Soulknife2/Soulbow7/Kensai 3 or more (however much you want to spend, at least enough to get Splitting!)/don't remember the rest.

Maybe put an actual Psionic class in there somewhere so you can finish up with Slayer or something, or maybe just take two levels of Fighter to get more feats. Naturally something like Warblade would also work, or Master thrower, since the class feature is call "throw mindblade". I guess this is arguable, since the Soulbow refers to shooting from that point on.

There is still this funny quirk in the rules, which may have been fixed, I don't know, that the soulbow bonus stacks with base-attack bonus of the Soulknife, so basically you gain one BAB at Soulbow 3 and another at Souldbow 7 in addition to normal BAB progression. The way it is worded I would even say that that is entirely RAI. So basically up to Lvl 7 Soulbow you have full BAB.

Of course, this doesn't really have any great psionic flavour with the exception of shooting green transparent things, and into AMFs if you can make the save. It also has the benefit of adding Wis to damage by default, and you could take Zen Archery for complete SAD. The only thing you need to make sure is getting enough bonus damage and making enough attacks via feats and enhancements.

Edit:To get both the real psionic class and the WF requirement for Kensei take one level of Ardent with the Conflict mantle.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 02:11:40 PM by Brainpiercing » Logged
Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 12:43:34 PM »

I've tried looking through the MiC, but there is so much stuff in there...

There's an appendix in the back that has a brief description of everything in the book, and it's sorted by body-slot and price.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 12:46:48 PM by Lycanthromancer » Logged

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My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
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Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2009, 01:16:07 PM »

I always wonder if Strength of My Enemy is worth spending an action on, as opposed to just buying whatever +Str item you can afford. If you use Linked Power to manifest it as a swift action, it might be.

It adds more book keeping, though, as you have to fiddle with modifying your Str to damage after every shot...
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Zombieboots
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2009, 02:32:32 PM »

If I have a Psion 9/Psi-Warrior 2, who has learned vigor through his Psiwarrior levels. Can the Psion side still manifest the power because it appears on both lists? Thus allowing him to augment it to his maximum Psion level or is the power capped at 2 PP because that's the class it was learned through?

I know there was some limited on multiclassed manifestors but I can not find it on the SRD.
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2009, 02:39:48 PM »

If I have a Psion 9/Psi-Warrior 2, who has learned vigor through his Psiwarrior levels. Can the Psion side still manifest the power because it appears on both lists? Thus allowing him to augment it to his maximum Psion level or is the power capped at 2 PP because that's the class it was learned through?
It is capped at 2 pp. You use powers known/manifester level separately, but all of your PPs are pooled.
Quote
I know there was some limited on multiclassed manifestors but I can not find it on the SRD.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm#multiclassPsionicCharacters
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sonofzeal
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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2009, 03:08:47 PM »

I know I brought this up just a few days ago.... but isn't Bow of the Wintermoon a Relic?  I thought Relics required specific deities, plus either a feat or a high cleric spell slot, plus they're rarely if ever on sale on the open market, plus a lot of DMs flat out restrict them, plus you can't really customize them.  Or has it been downgraded to a different category?
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2009, 03:13:06 PM »

Edit: Ok, looked up the rules on relics.

1) You can customize them.
Quote from: MiC, p222
Furthermore, a character can improve an existing relic just as he could any other magic item.

2) They aren't normally available for purchase, and are rare (only ~1/2 dozen copies of each relic exist). However... I wonder why do they have a gold piece value then?

And if you're starting with one on a character above 1st level, you can always just write something into your backstory about how you got it...

And you can craft them if you have the correct feats (and then retrain those feats).

3) Anyone with an appropriate alignment (within 1 step of the deity the relic is consecrated to) can use the relic's base functions. In the case of some of them, they are freakin' amazing even without the "advanced" functions. So who really cares if you can't use the other stuff?
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 03:22:13 PM by PhaedrusXY » Logged

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...thanks
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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2009, 10:33:31 PM »

*Cough cough enveloping pit cough*
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Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2009, 11:47:40 PM »

I always wonder if Strength of My Enemy is worth spending an action on, as opposed to just buying whatever +Str item you can afford. If you use Linked Power to manifest it as a swift action, it might be.

It adds more book keeping, though, as you have to fiddle with modifying your Str to damage after every shot...

The extra bookkeeping doesn't matter much; just keep a sheet of scratch-paper nearby with some hatchmarks on it and you'll be okay.

Here's a couple of samples of how I'd generally buff (though I do have access to Untapped Potential, which is awesome):

Surprise round:
(Standard) Linked physical acceleration/hustle
(Move) Refocus
(Swift) Linked trick shot (or hammer or grip of iron)/strength of my enemy
5 ft step behind cover/concealment/ally

Round 1:
(Extra Move) Refocus
(Full round action) Strength of my enemy + Rapid Shot full attack + Greater/Psionic Shot additional attack
(Swift) Hustle to move to an advantageous position
_____

Round 1:
(Swift) Linked grip of iron/bite of the wolf
(Standard) Manyshot attack
(Move) Move to advantageous position

Round 2:
(Swift) Psionic lion's charge
(Full round action) Rapid Shot attack + bite of the wolf charge
_____

You have a lot of options on what to do, depending on the powers and feats you've got. Do enjoy them.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 11:50:37 PM by Lycanthromancer » Logged

Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 Big Grin
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
BowenSilverclaw
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2009, 06:16:40 AM »

"Bow of the Wintermoon" (3400 gp; in the MIC) is a composite longbow that auto-adjusts to your Strength rating. Add strength of my enemy to it, and your damage will scale the more hits you get in (also a nice debuff).


That's what I was talking about, thanks Lycan Smile
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Zombieboots
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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2009, 11:43:26 AM »

Updated.

Game is this week, and this is what I will be playing with, should I include any last minute changes? Thanks for all the suggestions thus far.
I have stolen the tattoo idea from your build, PXY. Expect a ransome note.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2009, 01:40:26 PM by Zombieboots » Logged

Ah! Maddness. Thank you.
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