Psionic Lion's Charge And YOU.

[Lycanthromancer]

Here's the power's text:

Psionic Lion’s Charge
Psychometabolism
Level: Psychic warrior 2
Display: Mental
Manifesting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
Power Points: 3

You gain the powerful charging ability of a lion. When you charge, you can make a full attack in the same round.

You can manifest this power with an instant thought, quickly enough to gain the benefit of the power as you charge. Manifesting the power is a swift action You cannot manifest this power when it isn’t your turn.

Augment: For every additional power point you spend, each of your attacks after a charge in the current round gains a circumstance bonus on damage equal to the number of additional points spent.

The way I (and most people I know) have always used it, you can make a full attack at the end of a charge.

However, this is not how the text reads. According to the text, you can make a full attack in the same round that you make a charge. Which means you make a full attack and then a charge. Or a charge then a separate full attack. Or a full attack in the middle of a charge, which is completed afterwards.

And so, for argument's sake, you can make a full round of ranged shots, then make a charge attack. Or start a charge, full-attack a critter on the way, then finish off with the final strike at the end of your charge. Or make a charge, then an additional full attack afterwards.

With Linked Power and a level dip in Lion Totem Barbarian, it's fully feasible to make 3 full attacks in one round as follows:

Round 1: Manifest some power Linked to psionic lion's charge.

Round 2: Psionic lion's charge manifests, granting you a full attack and a charge (which, with the barbarian's pounce ability, grants you another full attack). You then manifest psionic lion's charge again, granting you yet another full attack.

Round 3: Profit!

[edit] Also, the circumstance bonus granted by the augment scales very rapidly. Every power point grants a bonus equal to the number of power points you've already spent, so it increases in strength exponentially.[/edit]

[Rymosrac]

Words fail me.

[Paradox]

I would disagree. It says, explicitly, that when you make a charge, and you manifest that power, then during that turn, you have the ability to make a charge and a full attack during that round.  It does not grant you any additional charges or full attacks.  It merely states you have the ability to full attack if you make a charge.

[Lycanthromancer]

Does it say when during the charge you have to full attack?

(Hint: that's a no. )

Also, it does say charge AND full attack in the same round. A single attack is made as part of a charge, which means that you get the charge-attack AND a full attack.

Probably just badly written, but there you go.

[Negative Zero]

To be more explicit: A full attack is a full-round action. A charge is a full-round action. It says that if you use one full-round action, you can use the other one in addition to the first, in the same round.

[Operation Shoestring]

Since this relies entirely on bad wording, it's strictly TO, but even without the recursive stacking, the bonus on damage seems pretty HAX to me.  If you spend 15 pp on this, each of your attacks gets +12 damage?  Niiiiice

[Rymosrac]

Well, the RAI is probably that if you spent 15pp you'd get +12 damage. Heck, that's even possible inside RAW since your DM may call that those circumstance bonuses arise from the same source and therefore don't stack, as outlined in the SRD. If, however, the DM rules that they do not arise from the same source, that 15pp will get you +144 damage to each of those attacks.

I'd agree that exploiting the bad damage wording seems pretty TO - that'd be a hard sell to any GM. I'd be much more willing to accept the exploitation of the charge+full attack wording. Seems like a lot less open to debate - and somewhat less terrifying.

[Brainpiercing]

Well, the RAI is probably that if you spent 15pp you'd get +12 damage. Heck, that's even possible inside RAW since your DM may call that those circumstance bonuses arise from the same source and therefore don't stack, as outlined in the SRD. If, however, the DM rules that they do not arise from the same source, that 15pp will get you +144 damage to each of those attacks.

I'd agree that exploiting the bad damage wording seems pretty TO - that'd be a hard sell to any GM. I'd be much more willing to accept the exploitation of the charge+full attack wording. Seems like a lot less open to debate - and somewhat less terrifying.

Uh... it's also terrifying. Charges are where the money are for melee characters. This would basically be Time Stands Still on steroids, because you can charge.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Um charging ability of a lion? The intent is clearly supposed to be that it duplicates what lions have: pounce.

I don't mind being a silly literalist so long as you have a valid interpretation that is close to how people would want to play. But damn, who wants more multipouncing? EW!

[EjoThims]

intent

Has no place in the holy RaW. 

[AfterCrescent]

intent

Has no place in the holy RaW. 

Actually in this case, it pretty much does.
The intent, and the actual ability are almost the same. The point is to get a lion's pounce ability, which allows you to charge AND make a full attack at the end of a charge. While they left off the "at the end" portion of the power, the effect is the same. So the OP's example works.

[Midnight_v]

intent

Has no place in the holy RaW. 

Actually in this case, it pretty much does.
The intent, and the actual ability are almost the same. The point is to get a lion's pounce ability, which allows you to charge AND make a full attack at the end of a charge. While they left off the "at the end" portion of the power, the effect is the same. So the OP's example works.

Right I remeber that.
Charging with pounce doesn't work like anyone think is does... does it.

Its:
1. I charge... allowing me an attack at the end of the charge.
2. I then take a full attack.
..........
Odd but that is how pounce actually works. Most people don't know that, but then most people just skim the rules I'd guess. LOL

 Lycanthromancer: Thats hardcore enough that I'd have to hold someone at gunpoint to get it in. However, thank you sooo much because I've always missed the second part of that ability, Don't know why. but I did.
I don't think it stacks(and I'm not trying to debate it) but the few extra points of damage will be great especially if I use something to reduce the cost of the augement.
Cool.
...

You're interpretation by the way... Wins.
Raw is God, spelled in D&D terms. (then later raw became Pun-pun)

[Kuroimaken]

This sounds like it would be kewl on a Bloodstorm Blade, for some reason.

[Lycanthromancer]

(Note: You can make 5 full attacks in one round if you can somehow use Twin Power on both of your psionic lion's charges. More if you share with your psicrystal... O.O)

Also, this isn't nearly as broken as, say, Robilar's Gambit + metamorphosis into a 12-headed hydra...

[skydragonknight]

I'd actually argue that "When you charge, you can make a full attack in the same round" implies that it must be charge->full attack and not the other way around. It's a conditional statement, so it's not true unless the charging condition is met. And you can't start a charge if you use your Full-round action on a full attack-you simply don't have the actions at that point.

[Lycanthromancer]

"A charge" isn't the attack at the end of the charge. It's a full-round action that encompasses both the movement and the attack. So as long as the full attack action takes place on the turn in which you perform a charge, it can rightfully be considered to take place "when you perform a charge".

I don't see what's so difficult about this.

(Also, *after* the charge isn't *during* the charge, so RAW you can't actually perform the full attack afterward.)

[Operation Shoestring]

"A charge" isn't the attack at the end of the charge. It's a full-round action that encompasses both the movement and the attack. So as long as the full attack action takes place on the turn in which you perform a charge, it can rightfully be considered to take place "when you perform a charge".

I don't see what's so difficult about this.

(Also, *after* the charge isn't *during* the charge, so RAW you can't actually perform the full attack afterward.)

So psionc lion's charge is actually the better spring attack?

[skydragonknight]

"A charge" isn't the attack at the end of the charge. It's a full-round action that encompasses both the movement and the attack. So as long as the full attack action takes place on the turn in which you perform a charge, it can rightfully be considered to take place "when you perform a charge".

I don't see what's so difficult about this.

You have to begin a charge for the power's effect to do anything. "When" is a conditional word that must be satisfied. A charge requires moving at least 10 ft, so I would argue the full attack must take place after moving 10+ ft. This is a direct response to your OP where you claim that you can full attack and then charge, which I am saying is incorrect. Full attacking first will consume actions since the power's conditions aren't met.

As an analogy, if you have an ability that is "When you move, you gain concealment until your next turn." You can't claim concealment in order to hide and THEN move-the condition of movement must be satisfied: you must be moving or have moved in order to have the necessary concealment to hide.

[Negative Zero]

If you want to get technical, it says in the 'same round.' Well, one round means that every creature in the encounter gets a turn. A spell that takes One Round to cast takes from the beginning of your turn until the beginning of your next turn. So you can take a full attack during someone else's turn if you want.

[skydragonknight]

Actually, I've just found a possible counter-argument for the full thing. Here goes:

1. A Full Attack is not an action you can make separately, it is a continuation of an attack action; You can only choose to make a full attack after making a single attack and normally only if you have the actions available(a lot of ways around the last part--specified exceptions)

2. The only attack action a charge gives you is specified as "after you move". Unless you can generate another attack action during the charge, you can't continue into a full attack.