nWoD

[saintx]

Does anyone play in the new World of Darkness?
I enjoy the mechanics quite a bit. While I like d20, I feel that I can make the character that i want to play straight out of the gate with nWoD.
I could go off on a tangent about whats wrong with d20, but I will refrain for now.
every system has its problems...
anyone enjoy Requiem, Forsaken, Awakening, Created, Lost, or other titles in the world?

[Elephant Jack]

Mh, the main problem I've got with the storytelling-system: It has rules for storytelling! The system seems to be solid (I used to play ALOT of the old WoD, the system IS solid), but why do I need ~10 different ways to roll some dice for diplomacy, empathy, enigma (wth?) and other stuff? If I want to play a charismatic character in a storytelling game, I'll be happy if I'm able to roleplay charismatic - no need for dozens of rules mechanisms.

Other then that: I'm a WoDv.1 fanboy: I loved my sabbat, I loved Pentex (whew, the fomori-campaigns we did were sickening and awesome - perhaps the densest roleplaying experience I had!) - so much, that I did not dare to look into the new books. If I'm missing something, please tell me so that I can correct my fault.

EJ

[saintx]

okay, the mechanics of nWoD are slick. and rather consistant. and most people i know, disregard most of the social rolls anyway.
the fluff of the new world... totally different. does that keep you from using nWoD mechanics and systems in an oWoD game? no. that has actually been a topic of discussion around my town for a while.
in Requiem, there is no sabbat, there used to be a camarilla... currently there are 5 major covenants of varying philosophies... and you are free to use any or all of them in a game.
oh, there isnt a default creation story... so no Caine.
all of the supernatural types are templates added to a base nWoD character. its also a lot easier to run mixed games of vampires and werewolves and mages ans such.
my recommendation, find a used copy of the WoD rulebook. give it a spin.

[Callix]

I play quite a lot of nWoD. Werewolves are a lot less broken. Mages use a lot more magic, and it's a lot more balanced. and the core rulebooks don't force you into apocalyptic stories of doom. They give you room to run them, but they don't *make* you run them. Changeling is irredeemable. Promethean is inherently broken, Mage is easily broken. But most of it is fun.

Also, with Life 5, Dex 5, Brawl 5, Kung Fu 4 and Fighting Finesse (Brass Knuckles) in M:tAw, you can buff your dexterity to 10, then take 9 attacks at 16/15/14/13/12/11/10/9/8/7 dice. It's only bashing damage, and armor/defence stops most of it, but it averages to over 38 points of damage to a beanbag. 32 points of bashing to an average human. Yes, I just optimised in WoD. So shoot me.

[heffroncm]

Maybe it's the angsty emo-teen in me, but I like both oWoD and nWoD for the settings.  The mechanics leave something to be desired, especially in combat resolution it seems we're always throwing huge fistfuls of dice and spending a long time figure out the effects.  I think I've spent more time reading the fluff in White Wolf books than I ever have playing the game, but I feel like I got my money's worth out of the.m

[saintx]

@ Callix i can get a vampire to do the same thing with celerity 5 dex 5 brawl 5 and kung fu 4 and a carthian devotion.
unfortunately i mostly LARP in nWoD, so the mechanics are a little different.

[Callix]

@ Callix i can get a vampire to do the same thing with celerity 5 dex 5 brawl 5 and kung fu 4 and a carthian devotion.
unfortunately i mostly LARP in nWoD, so the mechanics are a little different.

Yes. But the vamp costs 1 blood per turn. The mage costs 1 mana per month. And if he has a Hallow at home, then he can even remove that. You don't get Celerity's super-speed, but the cost reduction is nice.

[saintx]

fair enough... looks like i gotta read the mage book some more.

[EntropicShadow]

I love nWoD, and I would play it a lot more if I could.

Chiming in on the magic versus celerity discussion, the entire power of celerity is a Time 3 spell should you want the speed..  Oh, and (extended casting) + (Space 2 or Time 2) + (any Arcana at 3) = Death to those who oppose you.  Check it out. 

[Josh]

I am familiar with oWoD and have a number of issues with it but am interested in the social mechanics rules in nWoD. 

How do they work and what can they be used for?

[EntropicShadow]

I am familiar with oWoD and have a number of issues with it but am interested in the social mechanics rules in nWoD. 

How do they work and what can they be used for?

Guess I'll tackle this one. 

The mechanics of nWod work very similarly to oWoD.  Add attribute + skill, roll dice, count up successes.  Social stuff is usually contested, so try for more successes than the other guy.  This is streamlined compared to oWoD, because you always have the same target number on the dice, and if you get the official dice, success numbers are a different color. 

The social skills (and what they do) are: Animal Ken (most of the following skills combined, just for animals), Empathy (reading emotions, detecting lies), Expression (Making yourself understood and most performed art such as music), Intimidation (obvious), Persuasion (convincing, cutting deals, fast-talking, seduction), Socialize (carousing, fitting in at various social situations and knowing the proper rules of etiquette) Streetwise (dealing with criminals, understanding gang culture, finding black markets), and Subterfuge (lying, disguises, cons, and detecting lies).  There is a little bit of overlap in the skills, so a convincing player can get by with less of them.  This is all the core rules, and moving to the various game lines adds in a plethora of social powers. 

There is one suppliment that really makes the social system shine.  Tucked away in Requiem for Rome is the rules for social combat.  At its core, this is just an argument, but there is a lot more to it than that.  You choose how to argue, using logic, sarcasm and wit, force of personality, or lies and twisting of words.  Your Integrity is your defense, allowing you to shake off insults or construct quick counter-arguments.  You can sacrifice said Integrity to go all out with your argument.  And this isn't necessarily a one-on-one contest.  You can deliver a cruel insult to one opponent just to have another turn that against you.  Add an audience and things get more interesting.  You can now rip apart your opponents reputation and your allies can get in on the fun with bribes, intimidation, mystical coercion, or any number or underhanded tactics.  You can stake more on the argument, like wealth or land, but you better not lose afterwards.  Audience also determines how well certain tactics work.  The undead legionnaires may find insult tactics amusing, but elder vampire senators would probably prefer logic.  Add in "Debate Style" merits (Logic, Religion, and Rhetoric) and you have a nice set of tricks and tactics to draw from.

I have seriously considered using this mechanic for every major social encounter, like "Convince the vampire elder to help you before he reminds himself of your previous failures" or "Put the mayor's assistant in your pocket before your rival does," but I haven't had a chance to test it out yet.  The mechanic is simple enough it should work well enough. 

As for other issues in the oWoD, they fixed most of my problems with it.  The mechanics are consistant between game lines, normal humans aren't entirely outclassed, there is no more Global Conspiracies of Doom(TM), and the lack of an progressing story means the game writer's don't assume that there are NPCs much more important to the story than the PCs.

[Josh]

So if two players disagree what do they roll to see who wins the argument?

[EntropicShadow]

To be honest, I never have seen rules used to work things out between players.  Usually that is done outside of the system, at least in my group.

[Josh]

I was looking the game over earlier tonight.

My take on the system is that of being unimpressed.  If the game were less complex it might have something significant to offer.  As it stands it is a bunch of skills and a fighting system.  Basically Like every other game. 

The setting is tired.  It is not all over the place like oWoD, but it has no good point.  True20 is better, why bother with nWoD?

[EntropicShadow]

Its cool that you gave it a look despite your opinions on the old system, though I am not terribly surprised you didn't like it. 

As for the setting, I am a sucker for modern supernatural stuff.  Got any suggestions on a stronger system for that?

[Josh]

Its cool that you gave it a look despite your opinions on the old system, though I am not terribly surprised you didn't like it. 

As for the setting, I am a sucker for modern supernatural stuff.  Got any suggestions on a stronger system for that?

The biggest improvement to the nWoD is that the people who proselytize the system are not gigantic turds.  Fans of oWoD were the biggest enemy to the "cause." 

As for a recommendation for modern supernatural the answer is "not really."  I have high hopes for the Dresden files RPG, but that is not out yet.  Essoterrorists is good for investigation, Dread and fear itself serve horror,Savage worlds is action adventure, Burning wheel has no modern version, True20 is more of a toolbox than a game. 

There is no good modern setting.

[EntropicShadow]

I think the saying goes, "The problem with playing Vampire the Masquerade is that you have to be around people who really want to play Vampire the Masquerade." 
(EDIT: to be more specific, everyone that I personally know who regularly played oWoD was really playing "Vampire: the Beating Shit Up with Kewl Powerz" or "Mage: the Blowing Shit Up with Kewl Powerz".  YMMV.)

I like the nWod because it fixed most of my major complaints with the old stuff, though I am right there with you in hoping the Dresden Files RPG turns out well.  I love that setting and think that great things can be done with it.

[Josh]

I think the saying goes, "The problem with playing Vampire the Masquerade is that you have to be around people who really want to play Vampire the Masquerade."

If I ever hear someone try to use something they learned from Mage as a philosophical point again it will be too soon. 

Mage Guy: Did you know that reality is based on what you think is supposed to happen and is merely an illusion
Me: Try to imagine not getting the crap kicked out of you and then getting locked in a car trunk.  We'll see which one is reality. 

[Zeke]

I always felt that what was missing in OWoD was a detailed mechanic for social interaction. It was basically an action/adventure game pretending to be an intrigue/personal conflict game. I have not closely examined the new rules but it seems from descriptions above that they really made a move to tie the game to its theme mechanically.

[EntropicShadow]

They have certainly taken steps in the right direction.  There are less combat skills than before.  All the physical powers are weaker while the mental/social ones were barely touched.  But yeah, you can still play vampire superheroes in Requiem.

Its unfortunate that the mechanics for social "combat" aren't in the main rule book, but are tucked away in a book most people won't buy unless they are buying all the books or they really want to play as a vampire during the decline of the Roman Empire.  If those rules had been published earlier and in a more accessable place, I think the designers could have put them to great use.