The 3.5 Cleric Handbook

[Shiki]

I guess I forgot that one. Scrap what I said about more IF builds. Carry on.

[bernsten69]

So I'm trying to make a level 20 Cleric-type for our party.

The rolls I need to fill: Counterspelling and healing.

Restrictions: I am a dwarf.  I can only use Core and the complete books (Plus Exhalted, BoVD, MM's, Miniatures, and the fiendish codexes).  I can ONLY have up to 2 prestige classes, they need to make sense for the character (He's good, been locked away for thousands of years . . . can't be part of some strange organization etc.).  To take a second prestige class, I must FINISH the first.  Due to a fluke, I have access to the domains of BOTH Moradin and Corellian as well as Celerity (I MIGHT be able to get healing).  Oh, and my items are already set (nothing that can synergize with the classes etc).  I thought of a dual wizard/cleric progression, but I couldn't get enough mass heals out of it. . .


Issues:  The way the game goes, I need to be able to blast as MANY Mass Heals as possible as OFTEN as possible.  Combat usually goes like this: the party gets blasted with Mordenkainen Disjunctions and/or dispelling.  Then we get a TON of spells lobbed at us, and finally the enemies try to isolate healers and ranged attackers (killing the healers first) with their melee.  Also, we have house ruled that IF you cast, you must make a concentration check = (10 + the biggest single hit you took in the previous round - healing received that round) in order to cast. . .

Theories:  I thought of using the Healer class because it gets Mass Heal as an 8th Level Spell, so I'd get 9 mass heals per day.  The problem is, I lose a TON of utility as well as the ability to counter spell.  (Are there any DUAL divine prestige classes that I missed??? - like ultimate magus, but for clerics?)

Build 1: 
Cleric 5/Combat Medic 5/Contemplative 10
Feats:
1 Dodge
3 Combat Casting (or whatever the feat required for Combat Medic)
6 Protection Devotion (+7 Sacred bonus to AC for the party is nice)
9 Divine Defiance (Fiendish Codex II)
12 Some Metamagic feat w/o pre-reqs - Quicken?
15 Repeat Spell (I am VERY annoyed at the pre-req of another metamagic feat)
18 Divine Metamagic: Repeat Spell

I would like to take Divine Ward (PHBII) so that I can cast HEAL at range, but I'm out of feats

Domains: Earth (for extra turns), Protection (for the domain), Healing (for the mass heal at 9th level), and (open - possibly celerity for time stop).

So the General Idea here is to memorize a ton of Greater Dispells, which I can channel into Heal spells due to Combat Medic. . . and I can counterspell as an immediate action by blasting a turn attempt. 

Combat Medic allows me to Sanctuary everybody in the party almost every round. . . which helps keep people from dying.

One way we were keeping clerics from getting killed by melee was to Have them cast Antilife shell and use Greater Spell Immunity to make members (at least a few) immune to its effect so that they can come get healed. Unfortunately, these fields either got dispelled shortly or MDJ'ed.  Unfortunately, I am 1 feat short of taking Divine Ward, so that I can ranged heal party members without taking Hierophant. 

My idea was to cast repeating Mass Heals with repeat spell using DMM.  I tried figuring out how to use Residual Magic (which applies a feat you use the round before), but this would end up with me casting 2 Mass heals in 1 round, which is really a waste, unless I can somehow DELAY to later in the round before using it.  (maybe I cast a DMM:Repeat Spell Mass Heal, next turn my mass heal goes off before my turn, I delay until the end of the round, then cast a Mass Heal (and it gets Repeat Spelled due to Residual Magic?)  Unfortunately delay spell is +3 CL. . . (a Delayed Repeating mass heal would be nice)

FYI, If we crowd up inside an Anti-magic field, we get smashed by their melee (and can't heal as a result of the AMF)


Alternate builds I considered:
Cleric 14/Combat Medic 5/Hierophant 1 (for the reach spell)
Healer 14/Combat Medic 5/Hierophant 1 (for the reach spell) (but I can't counterspell with this build or use divine metamagic)
Healer 5/Combat Medic 5/Contemplative 10 (I get Earth and Protection domains, so I CAN do some turn-monkeying stuff, but my spell list sucks and I can't counterspell)
Cleric 12/Combat Medic 5/Hierophant 3 (for reach spell and 2 extra feats, but I lose a TON of 9th level spells for mass heal . . . Extra Domain spell might make up for one of them. . . )

It would be NICE to take Hierophant so I can get an extra feat at level 21.  (I am thinking of taking Spell Siphoning so that I can HOPEFULLY get more 9th level spells if I roll well)

Basically, I need to be the MOST bad-ass healer possible to keep people alive.  Assume that buff spells get dispelled.  Insane broken combos will likely be GM-ruled illegal.

This is a HARDCORE Game.  Sometimes people bring back-up characters to play as a result.  We have to do a ton of reconnisance before going into combat, but as usual, the scout gets spotted and they completely change their gameplan. . .

One last thing:  The party is a massive mix of people (2 liches, a few drow, a few dwarves, humans, elves) with various allignments (from Lawful Evil to Chaotic Good).  I don't plan on healing the liches (and no, don't suggest Tomb-tainted).

Any Suggestions?

[Esgath]

Best would be, if you'd open a separate thread for that, because this is the handbook section. To do that, you just have to post here and here.

[RobbyPants]

Besides, divine spells usually don't have somatic components

I'm not sure about that. A lot of them don't, but a quick glance through the low level ones I'd be likely to cast in combat has about 75% with somatic components.

and you could easily put your Holy Symbol on your Shield(somewhere read about this, Complete Champion maybe?)

I'm not sure where either, but I know it's a rule.

Mithral Gauntlet Shield with Holy Symbol emblazoned on it = stylish and useful, besides it won't cost too much.

This may be my best bet. I was going to get a mithirl shield anyway, so once it costs 1,000 gp, the extra cost of a gauntlet shield compared to a heavy shield will be trivial. Is it still the same +2 AC of a heavy shield? How much does it cost?

[McPoyo]

I believe complete divine has the Sanctified item property, it's 500 gold, And allows you to treat a weapon or shield it us applied to as a holy symbol. It isn't the same thing that's in the BoED.

[Sinfire Titan]

I believe complete divine has the Sanctified item property, it's 500 gold, And allows you to treat a weapon or shield it us applied to as a holy symbol. It isn't the same thing that's in the BoED.

Dungeonscape, and it's 300gp.

[RobbyPants]

Oh. I didn't know it cost that much. Oh well.

[Jackinthegreen]

This may be my best bet. I was going to get a mithirl shield anyway, so once it costs 1,000 gp, the extra cost of a gauntlet shield compared to a heavy shield will be trivial. Is it still the same +2 AC of a heavy shield? How much does it cost?

It's still the same +2 AC base, yes. It's 50 gp, compared to the 20 gp of a standard heavy steel shield.

Check Races of Stone, page 158, for the full details.

[RobbyPants]

This may be my best bet. I was going to get a mithirl shield anyway, so once it costs 1,000 gp, the extra cost of a gauntlet shield compared to a heavy shield will be trivial. Is it still the same +2 AC of a heavy shield? How much does it cost?

It's still the same +2 AC base, yes. It's 50 gp, compared to the 20 gp of a standard heavy steel shield.

Check Races of Stone, page 158, for the full details.

Thanks. I found it last night. Yeah, it's only 30 gp more.

I guess the cost of a mithril shield to bypass the EWP is about the same as just getting a +1 heavy shield. Although, in the long run, you're probably better with the mithril shield, because it's only another +1,000 gp to add a +1 bonus, whereas increasing a +1 to a +2 is a +3,000 gp increase.

[PhaedrusXY]

Best would be, if you'd open a separate thread for that, because this is the handbook section. To do that, you just have to post here and here.

He'll have to reply to one more thread first. You have to have two replies before you can start a thread. Of course... that's what these are for:

New? Start Here!

[specx]

Ehrm, maybe i'm wrong, but wasn't there a Dread Necromancer Handbook, too?
Can't find it anywhere!

[PhaedrusXY]

Ehrm, maybe i'm wrong, but wasn't there a Dread Necromancer Handbook, too?
Can't find it anywhere!

This is all I see in the handbooks index: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2242

This is definitely worth the read, also: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584

[specx]

Thx, i know K's Necrobook - like that
But found the Dread Necromancer Handbook here: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872470/New_Dread_Necromancer_Handbook
Thought it was in this forum! It's also worth the read, although it's mostly bases on K's handbook. 

[Ecthelion]

Hello there, i'm trying to build a cleric follower of Mytra with a little draconic taste. So i was wondering if there was a way to get Shapechange without the Reptilian domain in order, at hight level, to shapechange into a dragon. At mid level, i would use polymorph for this but i'm missing the high level thing.

Subquestion : any way to get a nice Time Stop by being a follower of Mystra by some way that i don't know?

[Jackinthegreen]

Hello there, i'm trying to build a cleric follower of Mytra with a little draconic taste. So i was wondering if there was a way to get Shapechange without the Reptilian domain in order, at hight level, to shapechange into a dragon. At mid level, i would use polymorph for this but i'm missing the high level thing.

Subquestion : any way to get a nice Time Stop by being a follower of Mystra by some way that i don't know?

As mentioned several posts up, these kinds of questions are best asked in the min/max main forum in a new thread.  To make a new thread one needs at least two reply posts.  These can be from anywhere I believe, but posting in http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8862.0 and http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=102.0 works best.

[michalius]

Just wanted to say thanks for all the effort in this handbook, really helped me out in my last campaign!