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Author Topic: The 3.5 Cleric Handbook  (Read 688590 times)
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McPoyo
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« Reply #520 on: May 05, 2010, 12:54:24 PM »

or Reach spell.
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A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
Nihilus
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« Reply #521 on: May 12, 2010, 09:58:20 PM »

What is so good about the Knight of the Raven prestige class?
I read about how it makes clerics melee gods and is up there with RKV and Ordained champion, but how so?
Am I missing something?
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #522 on: May 12, 2010, 10:57:22 PM »

Extra turning pool.  Just sub out your normal cleric turning for rebuke vermin or something.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 11:41:43 PM by The_Mad_Linguist » Logged

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Archao
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« Reply #523 on: May 13, 2010, 08:10:43 PM »

What is so good about the Knight of the Raven prestige class?
I read about how it makes clerics melee gods and is up there with RKV and Ordained champion, but how so?
Am I missing something?
From looking over the class briefly (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft p200) it does seem rather attractive. Easy prerequisites, full BAB, 9/10 casting, decent saves, 8/10 turning, Sun domain, a number of useful feats, and a celestial raven than can harass enemies and, at 7th level, you can channel spells through it.
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Akalsaris
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« Reply #524 on: May 14, 2010, 02:25:01 AM »

Even without abusing it for an extra healing pool, which won't fly in most games, it's basically a stronger version of cleric that gives up very little for lots of cool minor abilities.  I'd rate it about on par with Radiant Servant of Pelor and Ordained Champion, but not as awesome as dweomerkeeper or RKV.
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Havok4
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« Reply #525 on: May 14, 2010, 10:30:50 AM »

but not as awesome as dweomerkeeper or RKV.
But then again very little is, except possibly bone knight.
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« Reply #526 on: May 27, 2010, 06:49:20 AM »

I was wondering if anyone has checked out the Greater domains in the Quintessential Cleric II - Mongoose publishing book. 3.5 Compatible. Has advanced versions of all the basic players handbook domains which can make for nasty builds. For example;

Greater Strength Domain
Strength is more than just muscle. It is the unbreakable spirit. It is the iron heart. It is the farmer whose toil feeds the world. It is the hero who stands undaunted in the face of absolute destruction. Those who possess this greater domain are living symbols of the power of mortal will, demonstrating their faith through the performance of great feats of power and strength.
Granted Powers: Your Strength score is permanently increased by +2 and you gain immunity to spells, spell-like effects, poisons and diseases (magical and non-magical) which temporarily or permanently drain Strength.

Greater Domain Spells
1st jump
2nd bear’s endurance
3rd rage
4th mass enlarge person
5th waves of fatigue
6th mass bull’s strength
7th symbol of weakness
8th iron body
9th Quickened mass bull’s strength (spell gains the benefit of this feat even if the cleric does not possess it)

Along with the pleasure domain which makes you immune to CHA drain. Makes the sanctified spells ohhh so tasty
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Archao
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« Reply #527 on: May 27, 2010, 02:29:57 PM »

Looking at the Greater Domains, they are rather nice, but you have to have eight levels in Cleric to take them, and you have to have the normal domain in order to gain the greater one, while sacrificing your other domain choice. I would personally (should a DM even allow such 3rd party books) ask that the 8th level part be waived, or that having a 6th level cleric with two levels of something like RSoP (With full casting and turning, and the same BAB and saves as a cleric, it's pretty much cleric with more class features after first level.) would count as an effective 8th level cleric. In addition, I haven't found anything in the book that expresses how to deal with Cloistered Clerics, or any other class that grants extra domains, as the entry on gaining greater domains says that "Any cleric with access to two domains can select a greater domain, but only once he achieves 8th level as a cleric and only by sacrificing one of his two standard domains." Of course that's really a debatable subject, but I assume that some DMs may be picky on the subject.

But still, a good find, and I thank you for bringing it to light. I'm going to look through the mongoose books for more clerical fodder.
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Frost Wolf
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« Reply #528 on: June 21, 2010, 08:21:24 AM »

I'm sorry. That post was meant for another thread  Bang Head
« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 08:23:49 AM by Frost Wolf » Logged
Waazraath
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« Reply #529 on: June 21, 2010, 01:29:53 PM »

I'm missing the binder 1 dip (with the green lady vestige) and the anima mage variant prestige class option.

Binder 1 with the improved binding feat gives access to the Green Lady vestige: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/olderProducts/dungeon/generalDiscussion/archives/statsForTyralandiScrimm&page=1#9

Advantages:
Granted Abilities: The Green Lady infuses you with mastery over magic and death, and enhances your natural ability to influence and control your subjects.
Turn/Rebuke Undead: You can turn or rebuke undead as a cleric your effective binder level. As with a cleric, you turn if you are good and rebuke if you are evil. If you are neutral, you choose whether to turn or rebuke upon binding with the Green Lady and cannot later change your mind. If you have the ability to turn or rebuke undead from other classes, your levels in those classes stack with your effective binder level for the purpose of determining your turning ability. Once you have used this ability, you cannot do so again for 5 rounds.
Green Lady’s Beauty: You gain a +2 bonus to Charisma.
Arcane Knack: You can use spell trigger items, such as wands and staves, as if you were a wizard of your effective binder level.
Gift of Magic: The Green Lady grants you the use of one 1st level wizard spell as a spell-like ability. You may use this spell-like ability at will, but once you have used it, you cannot do so again for 5 rounds. You must pick your spell-like ability when you bind the Green Lady, after which you cannot later change your mind. Your caster level with this spell-like ability is equal to your equivalent binder level.
Lore of Magic: You can use Spellcraft to identify magic items. You must examine the item to be identified for one minute, after which you make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the magic item’s Caster Level). If you exceed the target DC by 10 or more, you also note any curses the magic item may bear. You cannot retry an attempt to identify a magic item.
Vestige Level: 2nd
Binding DC: 17
Special Requirement: Yes

+2 to charisma is always nice, a 1st level arcane spell available every 5 rounds ad well (hello permanent expeditions retreat, or hi to nerveskitter...), but the Turn Undead every 5 rounds... oh joy! a one level binder dip ensures you're never without turn undead attempts! All divine feats with a cost of 1 turn attempt: always available. All divine feats with a duration of more then 5 rounds: always on, if you're willing to take a break every X rounds to take a standard action. All DMM and divine feats: cost 1 less turn attempt.

10 levels of anima mage makes it even better. The prestige class is great as it is, giving 1 free quicken spell, 3 free metamagic uses, full casting and full soulbinding, and +2 initative  Wink Being a cleric, persistent spell is a must anyway, 3 extra persisted spells/day are always nice. With 8 levels of soulbinding, both tenebrous and the green lady can be bound. Yes, 2 free turn undead attempts every 5 rounds. Among other abuses, all divine feats that can be bought back for 2 turn attempts are available, without limits.

Sample build http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866226/Anima_Mage_Handbook&post_num=67#409227097: cleric 2 binder 1 cleric +1 (3) anima mage priest 7 contemplative 1 anima priest +3 (10) prestige paladin 3 church inquisitor 2
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #530 on: June 21, 2010, 02:11:52 PM »

Yes, but that would mean you needed to use... pathfinder.
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« Reply #531 on: June 21, 2010, 02:29:37 PM »

From what I've seen on the boards, it's mostly accepted for 3.5 as useable for binders.

But, for the purists Wink: anima mage still requiers only a 1 level dip, is still not too shabby for a cleric with free persist spell 3/day and all that, and tenebrous gives access to turn undead as well. Just have to wait for a few levels though
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Vuliev
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« Reply #532 on: July 28, 2010, 03:50:53 PM »

okay, so i got an account on these boards to sak about this build that's coming up for the next campaign i play in.
It will be with a different dm than the one that we have now, so i dont know anything about how many points for point buy, etc.
our group plays with all books, but i still dont like using too outlandish things from books that they may have not seen before. they're the veteran players in the group, and they just let me in, but because i use internet resources rather than actual books, i perceive that i have more information access than they do.

>> so i want to make a good melee cleric. i saw the sample build with the eldritch class and prcs going on, 5d6 damage x4 per turn is cool, buut the flavor nerd in me cries out to not do that. idk, just doesnt fly for my optimization style.

The main 2 points for the character that i want to make is pretty much a divine gish, with the flavorings that would make him out to be from the Orzhov guild from the Ravnica set (If you're familiar with Magic the Gathering, you'll know what i'm talking about)

If you're not, they're pretty much a black and white religious organization that's also secretly a mafia run by their leaders, the 'Ghost Council of Orzhova'. they have alot of lore about ghosts and undeath, and i like the feel of them.  also, visual reference http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/arcana/1041 i've also made a mini that looks like that haha

I originally used favored soul class for this build, but then decided that cleric would just be overall more powerful. SO here's what i have in mind:
 
Cloistered cleric 9/Fighter 1/Bone Knight 10.
 not worshiping any premade deity, so here's the domains: Knowledge(from cloistered cleric), War, and undeath. 
Either lawful or lawful good alignment. probably just lawful.

Another thing: After i pick up knowledge devotion, i lose all of the knowledge skills that i didnt have already from my class skills. The ranks i put in before don't diminish do they?

the reason for the wierd order of feat selection is not being able to meet prerequisites at early levels
Feats would be 1: extend
human: persist
fighter: power attack,
3: knowledge devotion
6: divine metamagic: persist
9: holy warrior

the onlyu thing i don't like about this build is prepared casting. Never liked it.  that's why i used favored soul before. Any tips on how to prepare the right spells would be fantastic haha
i'm assuming that the character that i have to make for the campaign is around level 10 or so.
uses a greatsword. amidoingitrite?
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Solo
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« Reply #533 on: July 28, 2010, 03:53:11 PM »

Quote
Another thing: After i pick up knowledge devotion, i lose all of the knowledge skills that i didnt have already from my class skills. The ranks i put in before don't diminish do they?
You have to make the decision to trade out the knowledge domain for the feat at first level, before you put your ranks in.

If you pick up the feat seperately with one of your regular feat slots, you don't lose the domain.

Quote
the onlyu thing i don't like about this build is prepared casting. Never liked it.  that's why i used favored soul before. Any tips on how to prepare the right spells would be fantastic haha
Why not just play a favored soul?
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The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
Vuliev
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« Reply #534 on: July 28, 2010, 03:57:16 PM »

loss of turning, most domains, versatility of every spell on the cleric list, the cleric has too much to offer. I know that prc dips can help me get most of it back, but cleric is just superior in my eyes. And it'll test my play skill. so i can get knowledge devotion without even spending a feat slot? that's awesome.
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GawainBS
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« Reply #535 on: July 28, 2010, 04:04:25 PM »

loss of turning, most domains, versatility of every spell on the cleric list, the cleric has too much to offer. I know that prc dips can help me get most of it back, but cleric is just superior in my eyes. And it'll test my play skill. so i can get knowledge devotion without even spending a feat slot? that's awesome.

You can, but as you loose access to Knowledge skills as class skills, it might be worth spending a feat on it. *Might*.
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Vuliev
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« Reply #536 on: July 28, 2010, 04:09:55 PM »

maybe. But that also frees up another feat slot... extra feats are the sauce, you know?

ok, so i saw this thing on the Hypertext D20 SRD <<(Google that to find the site)
EDIT: here's the actual link haha http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm
that pretty much said that i can get the best of both worlds.
In either the variant class features or something like that, it has a template for
'Spontaneous caster clerics'
and it has a table and rules text and what not.

If it's in the SRD, then it has to be real, right?
i'm just wondering if this is in a tangible book anywhere. Even if it's not, i could still probably get favor with my dm Smile
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 04:14:40 PM by Vuliev » Logged

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McPoyo
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« Reply #537 on: July 28, 2010, 04:18:31 PM »

It's in the unearthed arcana book
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A gygaxian dungeon is like the world's most messed up game show.

Behind door number one: INSTANT DEATH!
Behind door number 2: A magic crown!
Behind door number 3: 4d6 giant bees, and THREE HUNDRED POUNDS OF HONEY!
They don't/haven't, was the point. 3.5 is as dead as people not liking nice tits.

Sometimes, their tits (3.5) get enhancements (houserules), but that doesn't mean people don't like nice tits.

Though sometimes, the surgeon (DM) botches them pretty bad...
Best metaphor I have seen in a long time.  I give you much fu.
Three Errata for the Mage-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Barbarian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Monks doomed to die,
One for the Wizard on his dark throne
In the Land of Charop where the Shadows lie.
carnivore
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« Reply #538 on: July 28, 2010, 06:00:21 PM »

Prestige Class from Five Nations(Eberron setting book):
BONE KNIGHT
“We shall emerge triumphant from this dreadful war or be reduced to
dust. We defend Karrnath with our spilled blood, our last breath, our
very bones.”
— Madox Kaminarr, bone knight of Karrnath
Bone knights are Karrn patriots, living protectors who
fi ght alongside the undead legions of their land. During
the Last War, they provided tactical expertise and fi ne
control to the legions of undead Kaius raised to defend
his people. In postwar Karrnath, they serve as elite
knights who travel abroad to complete missions that
serve the greater glory of their king. They wear suits of
bonecraft armor that they craft themselves and learn to
harness the power of necromancy, turning hordes of
undead into disciplined, even cunning, troops.
Becoming a Bone Knight
Most bone knights begin their service to Karrnath as
clerics or cleric/fi ghters. A few ex-paladins also drift
easily into the bone knight class, regaining much of
what they lost for straying from the highest ideals of
the paladin.
Bone knights train in the armies of Karrnath and
must swear oaths to the nation’s king. A handful of
others are taught by the Order of the Emerald Claw,
who fi rst proposed the idea of knights shepherding
the undead.
ENTRY REQUIREMENTS
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Skills: Craft (armorsmithing) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion)
4 ranks, Ride 6 ranks.
Special: Ability to turn or rebuke undead.
Special: Ability to cast 1st-level divine spells.
CLASS FEATURES
d10 HD
Medium BAB
good Fort save

Class Skills (2 + Int modifi er per level): Craft (armorsmithing), Craft (weaponsmithing), Handle Animal, Intimidate, Knowledge
(nobility and royalty), Knowledge (religion), Ride.

The following class features refl ect the bone knight’s
commanding presence on the battlefi eld and his mastery
of necromancy.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Bone knights
are profi cient with all simple and martial weapons and
with all armor and shields (including tower shields).

Bonecraft Armor (Ex): At 1st level, you learn to
make and wear the distinctive bonecraft armor used by
the order of bone knights. You can produce a suit of
bonecraft medium or heavy armor that would normally
be composed mostly of metal. The bonecraft armor has
the same cost and time to create as normal armor of
that type. It is possible to spend additional time and
money to produce spiked or masterwork bonecraft
armor (which may then be further enhanced through
magic). Only a character with this ability can effectively
wear bonecraft armor.
The armor grants you a +4 bonus on Intimidate
checks made while you wear it. In addition, the armor
grants you damage reduction 1/bludgeoning if it is
medium armor or damage reduction 2/bludgeoning if
it is heavy armor. Bonecraft armor is not metallic and
not subject to spells such as chill metal or to special attacks
that target metal, such as a rust monster’s touch.
Paladin Conversion: If you were a paladin or expaladin
before becoming a bone knight, you can never
again advance levels as a paladin, since your association
with the undead forever taints you. However, you
retain (or regain) certain paladin abilities, including
divine grace, lay on hands, aura of courage, divine
health, and spellcasting. You cannot detect or smite
evil or remove disease. You can use your lay on hands
ability to cure living or undead creatures. You lose the
service of your special mount (but see the summon skeletal
steed ability, below).

Rebuke Undead (Su): At 1st level, you gain the
ability to rebuke undead as a cleric of your bone knight
level. If you already had the ability to turn or rebuke
undead, you add your previous effective cleric level
to your bone knight level to determine your effective
cleric level for rebuking undead now. You can no
longer turn undead once you gain this ability.

Spellcasting: Beginning at 2nd level, you gain
new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and
spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained
a level in a divine spellcasting class to which you
belonged before adding the prestige class level. You
do not, however, gain any other benefi t a character
of that class would have gained. If you had more than
one divine spellcasting class before becoming a bone
knight, you must decide to which class to add each level
for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster
level, and spells known.
If your only divine spellcasting ability prior to
becoming a bone knight was as a paladin, you continue
to advance your paladin spellcasting as normal.
In addition, you add the following spells to your spell
list, as if they appeared on the paladin’s spell list:
1st—bane, deathwatch, doom; 2nd—death knell, desecrate, gentle
repose; 3rd—bestow curse.

Bone March (Su): At 2nd level, you gain the ability
to assume control of animated undead from a willing
caster as a standard action. You must be within 60
feet of both the caster and the undead to assume control.
The maximum total Hit Dice you may command
in this manner is equal to four times your class level.
You may not control any individual undead creature
with more Hit Dice than your class level; for example,
a 2nd-level bone knight can control up to 8 Hit Dice
of undead creatures, each with 2 Hit Dice or less.

Summon Skeletal Steed (Sp): At 2nd level, you gain
the services of a skeletal steed: a heavy warhorse with the
skeleton template applied (or a war pony with the skeleton
template applied for Small bone knights). You may
call this steed in the same fashion as a paladin whose
level equals your paladin level plus your bone knight
level, and the steed gains the same special abilities as a
paladin’s special mount at the same effective level.
A skeletal steed cannot be turned while its bone
knight master rides it.

Master of the White Banner (Su): Beginning at
3rd level, you grant any undead under your control
turn resistance equal to your Charisma bonus (if any)
as long as they are within 60 feet of you.

Improved Bonecraft Armor (Ex): At 4th, 7th,
and 10th levels, the damage reduction afforded by your
bonecraft armor increases by 1. Moreover, you gain
additional benefi ts while clad in your bonecraft armor,
as described below:
At 4th level, your bonecraft armor grants you immunity
to stunning attacks and nonlethal damage.
At 7th level, your bonecraft armor has a 50% chance
of negating any critical hit or sneak attack made against
you. In addition, the bonecraft armor allows you to act
and fi ght without penalty even while disabled or dying.
At 10th level, your bonecraft armor grants you
immunity to extra damage from critical hits and
sneak attacks.

Fill the Ranks (Sp): At 5th level, you can use a
limited form of animate dead once per day. The target
corpse rises as either a Karrnathi skeleton or Karr nathi
zombie (depending on the condition of the corpse and
your preference). This undead’s Hit Dice count against
the maximum number of undead you can control at
once with your bone march ability.
See the EBERRON Campaign Setting for Karrnathi skeleton
and Karrnathi zombie statistics (pages 292–293).

Bonecraft Weapon (Ex): At 6th level, if you have
at least 6 ranks in Craft (weaponsmithing), you can
craft weapons with pieces of bone worked into the
design. The bonecraft weapon has the same cost and
time to create as a normal weapon of that type. It is
possible to spend additional time and money to produce
a masterwork bonecraft weapon (which may then
be further enhanced through magic).
In the hands of a bone knight of 6th level or higher,
a bonecraft weapon deals +1d6 points of damage against
living creatures. A bonecraft ranged weapon bestows
this benefi t on its ammunition.

Exoskeleton of Undeath (Ex): At 8th level, your
bonecraft armor fuses to your body and cannot be
removed without killing you. However, you gain immunity
to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, death
effects, fatigue, exhaustion, ability damage to your
physical ability scores, ability drain, energy drain, and
death from massive damage.

Death Strike (Su): At 9th level, once per day, you
may use a bonecraft weapon (see above) to strike down
a living foe. You must decide to use this ability before
the attack roll is made. If the attack succeeds, the target
must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10 + your bone
knight level + your Cha modifi er) or die. This is a necromantic
death effect.

 Big Grin
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 06:12:02 PM by carnivore » Logged

Rebel7284
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« Reply #539 on: July 28, 2010, 06:04:14 PM »

okay, so i got an account on these boards to sak about this build that's coming up for the next campaign i play in.
It will be with a different dm than the one that we have now, so i dont know anything about how many points for point buy, etc.
our group plays with all books, but i still dont like using too outlandish things from books that they may have not seen before. they're the veteran players in the group, and they just let me in, but because i use internet resources rather than actual books, i perceive that i have more information access than they do.

>> so i want to make a good melee cleric. i saw the sample build with the eldritch class and prcs going on, 5d6 damage x4 per turn is cool, buut the flavor nerd in me cries out to not do that. idk, just doesnt fly for my optimization style.

The main 2 points for the character that i want to make is pretty much a divine gish, with the flavorings that would make him out to be from the Orzhov guild from the Ravnica set (If you're familiar with Magic the Gathering, you'll know what i'm talking about)

If you're not, they're pretty much a black and white religious organization that's also secretly a mafia run by their leaders, the 'Ghost Council of Orzhova'. they have alot of lore about ghosts and undeath, and i like the feel of them.  also, visual reference http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/arcana/1041 i've also made a mini that looks like that haha

I originally used favored soul class for this build, but then decided that cleric would just be overall more powerful. SO here's what i have in mind:
 
Cloistered cleric 9/Fighter 1/Bone Knight 10.
 not worshiping any premade deity, so here's the domains: Knowledge(from cloistered cleric), War, and undeath.  
Either lawful or lawful good alignment. probably just lawful.

Another thing: After i pick up knowledge devotion, i lose all of the knowledge skills that i didnt have already from my class skills. The ranks i put in before don't diminish do they?

the reason for the wierd order of feat selection is not being able to meet prerequisites at early levels
Feats would be 1: extend
human: persist
fighter: power attack,
3: knowledge devotion
6: divine metamagic: persist
9: holy warrior

the onlyu thing i don't like about this build is prepared casting. Never liked it.  that's why i used favored soul before. Any tips on how to prepare the right spells would be fantastic haha
i'm assuming that the character that i have to make for the campaign is around level 10 or so.
uses a greatsword. amidoingitrite?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8809.msg296453#msg296453

Also, you don't need the fighter level.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 06:21:34 PM by Rebel7284 » Logged

Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286
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