The 3.5 Cleric Handbook

[snakeman830]

Which domain as a whole is better: Animal, Knowledge, or Plant?  This isn't so much for powers, but I need Knowledge (nature) on my class skills list and I'm at the level where 9th level spells are available to me, so those need to be taken into consideration as well as the powers.  My other domain is Planning.

Animal fits the theme of the character perfectly, but really only has Shapechange as a worthwhile spell (but what a spell!)  Also has a crappy power.

Plant is second in line but lacks any phenomenal spells.  On the upside, it gives me another pool of Rebuking attempts to pull from to power DMM (Persist) and I might be able to conscript a few plants to my cause.

Knowledge Domain really doesn't fit with the character, but I can't help but agree on the utility of some of the spells.  Noticeable overlap between Planning and Cleric lists, though.

[PhaedrusXY]

If you can cast 9th level spells, Animal wins pretty much hands down IMO. If you were in a low level game, I'd say Plant because Barkskin and Entangle are both nice spells.

[Havok4]

Plant is second in line but lacks any phenomenal spells.  On the upside, it gives me another pool of Rebuking attempts to pull from to power DMM (Persist) and I might be able to conscript a few plants to my cause.

The plant domain rebuking does not work for DMM, only turn/rebuke undead and ACFs that explicitly state that they work with abilities that are powered by Turn undead work. So plant is likely no the best choice.

[snakeman830]

Plant is second in line but lacks any phenomenal spells.  On the upside, it gives me another pool of Rebuking attempts to pull from to power DMM (Persist) and I might be able to conscript a few plants to my cause.

The plant domain rebuking does not work for DMM, only turn/rebuke undead and ACFs that explicitly state that they work with abilities that are powered by Turn undead work. So plant is likely no the best choice.

Source?  ACF's that specifically state they work with Turn Undead-powered abilities, sure, but I where is it written that other Turning/Rebuking attempts don't work?  There's a bit of precendence for them doing so, in fact (Elemental Healing, Elemental Smiting).  Both of these feats specifically say that "unlike other feats, you cannot use a turn or rebuke undead attempt (or other turning attempt) to activate this feat".  That implies that other divine feats can be activated by any sort of turning/rebuking.

[PhaedrusXY]

Plant is second in line but lacks any phenomenal spells.  On the upside, it gives me another pool of Rebuking attempts to pull from to power DMM (Persist) and I might be able to conscript a few plants to my cause.

The plant domain rebuking does not work for DMM, only turn/rebuke undead and ACFs that explicitly state that they work with abilities that are powered by Turn undead work. So plant is likely no the best choice.

Source?  ACF's that specifically state they work with Turn Undead-powered abilities, sure, but I where is it written that other Turning/Rebuking attempts don't work?  There's a bit of precendence for them doing so, in fact (Elemental Healing, Elemental Smiting).  Both of these feats specifically say that "unlike other feats, you cannot use a turn or rebuke undead attempt (or other turning attempt) to activate this feat".  That implies that other divine feats can be activated by any sort of turning/rebuking.

It was in the FAQ, IIRC. Or Errata. I forget which.

[snakeman830]

Not the errata, I just checked.

[PhaedrusXY]

From the main D&D FAQ, p.40:

Can the turning abilities granted by the Air, Earth,
Fire, Plant, and Water domains be used to power Divine
Metamagic (CD 80) or other divine feats?
No. Unless stated otherwise, a divine feat requires (and can
be powered only by) the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Some
feats (such as Elemental Smiting, CD 81) use elemental turning
(rather than undead turning); these are specific exceptions to
the general rule.

[Havok4]

Exactly, which is why many DMM abusive builds are rather dip happy. Often like the incarnum ACF For a cleric, with a level of cloistered cleric with rebuke dragons, combined with Dread Necromancer and sacred exorcist.

[thorian]

Seems pretty clear that only turn/rebuke undead works.  From Complete Warrior, page 106:

Second, the force that powers a divine feat is the ability to channel positive or negative energy to turn or rebuke undead.

Turning or rebuking undead is mentioned several times in the surrounding text, and no mention of other types of turn/rebuke attempts are mentioned.

[Ed-Zero]

I'm in a undead heavy campaign (fighting vampires in PF actually) atm but also, most of the party is undead as well. What are some of the best spells/abilities that do not include turning (like targeted effects)? I wonder if an undead character can hold a disruption weapon... The cleric (my character) is a spellcaster, not a melee fighter and is undead as well lol.

Basically, anything that does positive damage in a aoe fashion or turning is pretty much out of the question sadly enough.

[CantripN]

...or they get a Cloak/Ring of Positive Protection and ignore all your Positive Energy effects.

[snakeman830]

Seems pretty clear that only turn/rebuke undead works.  From Complete Warrior, page 106:

Second, the force that powers a divine feat is the ability to channel positive or negative energy to turn or rebuke undead.

Turning or rebuking undead is mentioned several times in the surrounding text, and no mention of other types of turn/rebuke attempts are mentioned.

All of those features Havok posted specifically work for fueling divine feats and/or any other abiity that uses turn attempts.

[Akkristor]

I'm in a undead heavy campaign (fighting vampires in PF actually) atm but also, most of the party is undead as well. What are some of the best spells/abilities that do not include turning (like targeted effects)? I wonder if an undead character can hold a disruption weapon... The cleric (my character) is a spellcaster, not a melee fighter and is undead as well lol.

Basically, anything that does positive damage in a aoe fashion or turning is pretty much out of the question sadly enough.

Take the Mother cyst feat from Libris Mortis.  Infect it with a necrotic cyst, throw it near some undead, and cast Necrotic Eruption.

It will deal them Vile Damage.

Vile Damage can only be healed by HOLY magic in a Sanctified area.

Basically, no way they can heal.

[Optimator]

Moon Bolt.

[Nihilus]

what are some of the staple spells for a caster cleric?
What are the staple non-persistable, non-buff spells to use as a cleric as well?
I'm looking for something not so buff tastic for the next sesson

[snakeman830]

Heal is always a good idea to prepare at least once if you can.  Rediculous firepower against undead or it can save your allies a ton of trouble.

[Echoes]

Firstly, let me say this is a great resource. Secondly, let me say that I did not read all 25 pages of this thread yet. That being said,

Nope. Anyspell would still be an divine spell. Classes that advance divine casting =/= classes that advance arcane casting. Even if you can get a divine spell to be cast as an arcane, it's still not getting you an arcane caster level. I don't see a way to do this, and, frankly, it wouldn't be worth it with the amount of loops you'd have to jump through and shady interpretations you'd need to slip past your DM.

The spell you prepare when you cast anyspell is arcane. That's the fun thing with anyspell: it lets you prepare and cast arcane spells like a Wizard. They specifically remain arcane spells. Now, I'm not arguing that you become an arcane spellcaster at that point, although that argument can be made (it largely boils down to what precisely defines whether you're an arcane spellcaster or a divine spellcaster, and that gets a bit complicated). I just wanted to point out the difference between casting anyspell and casting the spell it lets you prepare.

I mostly use anyspell to get into things that require the ability to cast arcane spells, rather than arcane spellcaster level X. Again, the latter could be argued, but it's not a simple issue and I'm certainly not trying to raise it here.

Spell-like abilities give you an arcane caster level, right? So (a silverbrow human / someone with a dragonmark or the Community domain) could take Obtain Familiar, as long as they have necessary 4 ranks in Knowledge (arcana).

Does this work? If so, is it useful?

Nope. As far as I can find, there's no actual "arcane caster level" term defined in D&D. The only logical conclusion to draw is that you must have a Caster Level (a defined term) and it must apply to Arcane spells. Spell-likes are not arcane, by definition. And while creatures may have SLAs and even have set CLs, you don't arguably have an arcane caster level.
However, even if you could argue that, I don't see this feat being useful. Your "arcane caster level" would be too low to be useful.

IIRC, all spell-like abilities are assumed to be arcane unless specifically noted. This comes from the Arcane Hunter ACF in ... Complete Mage, I want to say (I'm AFB). Why they don't spell this out anywhere else, I don't know, but there it is.

Again, I don't think it's worth it for Obtain Familiar, although if you let anyspell's ability to prepare and cast arcane spells count, you don't even have to worry.

As to something to actually contribute, I don't believe I saw the Dawnbringer feat in the feats list. It's out of Races of Faerun, and it requires you to be a Damaran human who can cast divine spells. What it lets you do is spend 3 turn attempts as a full-round action (IIRC, it might be standard) to increase the CL and DC of the next divine spell you cast by 2. You can repeat this "charge-up" process as often as you want, provided that you have turn attempts to burn (hello nightsticks!) and that you cast a spell in the round following your last charge-up. Anything that gets better with CL (like, I dunno, holy word) becomes silly with some prep time and a friend with teleport, or better yet, a friend with a fast time plane and gate. Heck, combine the fast time plane with someone native to said plane and a planar bubble, so that you can charge in realtime without having to do anything fancy.

[Sinfire Titan]

IIRC, all spell-like abilities are assumed to be arcane unless specifically noted. This comes from the Arcane Hunter ACF in ... Complete Mage, I want to say (I'm AFB). Why they don't spell this out anywhere else, I don't know, but there it is.

Nope, only Invocations are specifically arcane. Normal SLAs are typeless.

[snakeman830]

IIRC, all spell-like abilities are assumed to be arcane unless specifically noted. This comes from the Arcane Hunter ACF in ... Complete Mage, I want to say (I'm AFB). Why they don't spell this out anywhere else, I don't know, but there it is.

Nope, only Invocations are specifically arcane. Normal SLAs are typeless.

Not exactly.  Spell-like abilities aren't enough to trigger Arcane Hunter (only Invocations do that), but I remember reading somewhere (NOT CM, I think it was a core book or Complete Arcane) that spell-like abilities default to arcane.  Since the power to fuel them comes from the creature itself and not an outside force, this seems reasonable.

Eh, it's not that big a deal, really.

[McPoyo]

"NOT CM, I think it was a core book or Complete Mage"

Orly?

PHB or MM1 should have that passage you are referring to, but it is there somewhere. I recall reading it as well.