The 3.5 Cleric Handbook

[snakeman830]

Keep in mind there are items that reduce turn resistance (even below the normal HD) of undead.  This can allow you to break the HD cap, since rebuking only checks for HD at the time of.  With both the Lyre of the Restful Soul and the Rod of Defiance, you can command that 5HD vampire with a Rebuking level of 2.

[kevin_video]

Keep in mind there are items that reduce turn resistance (even below the normal HD) of undead.  This can allow you to break the HD cap, since rebuking only checks for HD at the time of.  With both the Lyre of the Restful Soul and the Rod of Defiance, you can command that 5HD vampire with a Rebuking level of 2.

lol I can't help but laugh at that. So much for the mighty vampire.

[Emy]

Plus, they don't get nearly enough turn resistance to make up for their HD.

Vampire Necromancer (Archivist), CR 8
6 HD, Turn resistance +4
Effective HD for turning: 10

Gray Render Zombie minion, CR 6
20 HD, Turn resistance none
Effective HD for turning: 20

It's so backwards.

[Operation Shoestring]

Rebuke [Subtype] from domains cannot be used to power divine feats.

If that's your call. It's in the debatable trick section for a reason.

There was a ruling somewhere.

besides, given that Channel Incarnum and Rebuke Vermin specifically state that they do function as turn undead, while other turn/rebukes do not, the logical assumption is that they do not function in that capacity.

Azurin Cleric9/Sacred Excorcist1/Contemplative 10.  Mucho domains and double turning.

[AfterCrescent]

@ Emy, I completely agree. Turning is a nice concept, but the mechanics behind it are kinda wonky.

There was a ruling somewhere.

If you can find it, I'd like to know. I haven't heard of anything, so far.

besides, given that Channel Incarnum and Rebuke Vermin specifically state that they do function as turn undead, while other turn/rebukes do not, the logical assumption is that they do not function in that capacity.

Except that, as I point out in the trick section, the feats don't actually require the ability to Turn Undead to use. Just that you expend a turn attempt. But again, your interpretation for your games is fine, that's why it's a debatable trick.

[Operation Shoestring]

@ Emy, I completely agree. Turning is a nice concept, but the mechanics behind it are kinda wonky.

There was a ruling somewhere.

If you can find it, I'd like to know. I haven't heard of anything, so far.

besides, given that Channel Incarnum and Rebuke Vermin specifically state that they do function as turn undead, while other turn/rebukes do not, the logical assumption is that they do not function in that capacity.

Except that, as I point out in the trick section, the feats don't actually require the ability to Turn Undead to use. Just that you expend a turn attempt. But again, your interpretation for your games is fine, that's why it's a debatable trick.

Eh, my position is that if the DM is letting another player stack up a dozen types of turning, he better not have any problem with me crafting metamagic shuriken of doom and passing them out to everyone.

You know, it's all a matter of how overpowered you want the game to be.

I think I had it up to + 5 Shuriken (10d6+5 halfelec/halfsonic, make two fort saves or be stunned, take two negative levels)

[winter_soldier]

What about Divine Spell Power? It seems like a handy feat if DMM is banned in your campaign.....

[AfterCrescent]

We discuss it on page 17 of this thread.

[winter_soldier]

We discuss it on page 17 of this thread.

Ah, there it is. Those are all good reasons which don't quite apply to my character since:

-As a Radiant Servant, he has 11 standard turnings and 8 Greater Turnings per day, going up to 12 and 9 with a Charisma bump at level 12. He has never used all the Greater Turnings in one day, so the regular ones are doing nothing, especially since......

-...........Divine Metamagic is bannned.  

So because of it, it strikes me as one of the best options for the character at level 11. It's either that, Strength Devotion, or Quicken Turning.

EDIT: But yeah, I've said it before: Great guide. It's definitely given me a lot of food for thought.

[deuxhero]

Imbued healing should note that it is good for infinite damage loops.

[Endless Twilight]

Any plans to update the Domain Spells section with a review of the other domains you reviewed for their domain powers?

[AfterCrescent]

Any plans to update the Domain Spells section with a review of the other domains you reviewed for their domain powers?

Eventually, yes. I have a lot of things in a planned update. I just have to find lots of time to actually do it all.

[DerWille]

I thought about what it'd be like to make a Cleric Summoner that fights on the front lines. I imagine that it roleplays as a divine crusader that turns the forces of hell against itself. The build uses a debatable trick and assumes LA buy off.

Draconic Human Cloistered Cleric 6/Malconvoker 1/Sacred Excorist 1/Malconvoker +7/Contemplative 5 (LA bought off)

32 Point Buy
Str: 10 [0 points]
Dex: 8 [0 Points]
Con: 16 [6 points]
Int: 14 [6 points]
Wis: 16 [10 points]
Cha: 18 [10 points]

Domains: Trickery, Planning, Summoner
Devotions: Knowledge
ACF: Rebuke Dragons

Feats:
1) Extend Spell [Planning], Persist Spell, DMM: Persist
3) Spell Focus: Conj
6) Augment Summon
9) Power Attack
12) Extra Turning
15) Extra Turning
18) Extra Turning

Rebuke Dragons: 19 base +4 [Nightstick] + 2 [Holy Symbol] =25
Turn Undead: 19 Base +4 [Nightstick] +2 [Holy Symbol] = 25
Total = 50 Turn attempts to power DMM: Persist = 7 Persisted Spells per day

Without using a debable trick it's 25 attempts or 3 Persisted Spells a day. And nets one more level of Contemplative allowing for 1 more domain I'd go with Undead for 29 turn attempts and 4 Persisted Spells.

[ninjarabbit]

I'd try to squeeze one more level of contemplative for another domain. Maybe one less level of malconvoker.

My build would be cloistered cleric5/malconvoker5/contemplative6/divineoracle2/sacredexorcist2

[DerWille]

A good build, but I decided to shy away from Divine Oracle because I dumped dex. There's no point in having awesome evasion if I never make the save for it (Nor have the heavy armor proficiency to make full use of it), but the Oracle domain is a nice bonus. I dunno, it's a tough choice. I like the idea of binding Balors to take advantage of the high charisma. (24 with a +6 item) It works great mechanically and roleplay wise (Holy crusader charging with Balors to her back)

 I think if I got rid of one level of Cloistered Cleric I could squeeze that extra level of Contemplative in. I can't remember why I had CC 6... Ah that's it! Not enough feats. I wanted to have persistent spells at level 1 and be able to make Malconvoker by level 6? The domains are fairly set, Knowledge, Trickery (For bluff), and Planning. If we use just one flaw we can make this:

Draconic Cloistered Cleric 5/Malconvoker 2/Sacred Exorcist 1/Malconvoker +3/Contemplative 1/Malconvoker +3/Contemplative +5
Flaw: Clumsy (Come on, let's make a flaw that actually hurts. -3 Reflex saves)

32 Point Buy
Str: 10 [0 points]
Dex: 8 [0 Points]
Con: 16 [6 points]
Int: 14 [6 points]
Wis: 16 [10 points]
Cha: 18 [10 points]

Domains: Trickery, Planning, Summoner/Travel (Both Are Amazing), Undeath
Devotion: Knowledge
ACF: Rebuke Dragons, Cloistered Cleric

1) Extend Spell [Domain], Persist Spell, DMM: Persist, Spell Focus: Conj (Flaw)
3) Augment Summon
6) Power Attack
9) Extra Turning
12) Extra Turning
15) Extra Turning
18) Extra Turning
Bonus: Extra Turning

Rebuke Dragons: 7 (Base) + 20 (Extra Turning) + 4 (Night Stick) + 2 (Holy Symbol) = 33
Turn Undead: 7 (Base) + 20 (Extra Turning) + 4 (Night Stick) + 2 (Holy Symbol) = 33
That's 9 Persistent spells a day! Are there 9 spells worth persisting?

[Xanatheus]

This guide is incredible. I have one question that I can't find or discussed anywhere. If a true neutral cleric casts any of the seventh level word spells (Blasphemy, Dictum, Holy Word or Word of Chaos) does he risk being deafened? What about if he casts the spell on a different plane (is a save required to avoid being sent back to the Prime Material)?

Thanks in advance.

[AfterCrescent]

Thanks. And sorry for the delay.  I've never heard the questions before, so I had to look that one up.

Someone may be able to point me to a different view, but just reading the rules on spreads it seems that you would be subject to it, as long as you can hear it...

[Xanatheus]

I agree with you BTW. I just wanted to point out if said cleric boosts his caster level via karma bead, greater consumptive field or another way and then casts one of these spells he would kill himself without even a save as his CL would be much higher than his HD. OUCH!

[Namaarie]

Hello! I must say I'm currently playing a Volodni(pg.80 Unapproachable East) cleric of Silvanus and although I must admit this is one of the best forums around the cleric fluff and gameplay, I couldn't help but notice that Volodni are missing from the LA+2 Races column!!! Well, lets just say that I'd love to see the Volodni class on the group since i believe that they can do really good clerics! They got both helpfull stats & great immunities. Specifically:
•+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, –2 Intelligence, –2 Charisma.
• Cold resistance 5.
• +4 racial bonus on Hide checks in wooded terrain.
• Low-Light Vision.
• Plant: Volodnis are immune to poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and polymorphing. They are not subject to critical hits or mind-affecting effects.
• Half damage from Piercing. You reduce piercing damage to 1/2(minimum 1). (This one has been modified in erratas to DR 10/slashing although my DM allowed me this built).
• Sustenance.(Volodnis only require one-quarter the food and water a human requires, Volodnis require only 2 hours of sleep per day).

So this means, +2wis and +2con ==> nice , you lose some charisma that can be replaced. You are a plant! (Pains a bit against a blight or other plant-pawning spells and abilities, BUT you don't get the vulnerability to fire! ). Has great DR ( including the Cold rez - hmmehh... ). Also the sustenance thing helps a lot with night-swifts. But generally is a Race worth mentioning for a cleric in my opinion  (Has great fluff too! with all this Blight, blightlords and Talona(If you play FR) and all this protect the forest stuff that can easilly fill to any campaigh as good as a druid whould!)


Not to mention of course that in a good campaigh you can easily get the special requirements for Nymph’s Kiss exalted feat(pg.44 BoED) Since Volodnis live in forests and have many relationships with fey getting the massive +2 to all charisma checks(Including turns) filling the charisma loss, the +1 to saves against spells and spell like abilities AND the bonus skill point per lvl that can easilly fill the inteligence loss!

[Felix Underwood]

I personally like the Volodni from a flavor standpoint, but I always worry about losing spellcaster progression from an optimization standpoint.

I have some as NPC eco-terrorist-types in my campaign.

Just watch out for folks that can rebuke plants!!