The 3.5 Cleric Handbook

[Jagged]

Hi I'm new to the Cleric role and would like some help assembling a good potent cleric.

The entry values:
We'll be playing in a city oriented campaign whit a fair bit of social play, and that about as far as we know. Our characters can't be evil.  
There are three "heroes", one high dex halfing sorcerer and a human paladin, and me.

Not quite sure what my role into the party will be but I guess some kind of melee(tank?)/healer although I would like to try some magic combat since I'm new to the whole magic roles.

The good stuff:
The ability scores I've rolled are as follows (and my thought of there role) 18 (wis) 16 (chr) 16 (str) 15 (int) 14 (con) 13 (dex)

I'm thinking about human or changeling as a race. the feat and skillpoint could be nice but if noting else it would be cool to play as a changeling.
The changelings favord class is rouge but that

I'm aiming for the Boneknight PrC eventually but that requires some dips that I'm not sure how to place.

I'm thinking fighter at some level (for ride skill), or if I should start as a fighter to get the weapon proficiency at once, but that would cost me some nice knowledge points. otherwise pure cleric/bone knight, but I'm open to suggestions. what's a good class to dip into to meet the bone knight requirements?

Travel & Trickery domain

Feats: DMM and persist spell is popular here, but I can't find Persist Spell in any rulebook, where is it? What feats in general do you recommend?

Any help is appreciated  


(if you see any funny spelling I'll blame that on my 19 year pure progression into the Swede class =P)

[Havok4]

Persist spell is in the complete arcane, DMM persist is generally a good option. Also based off the party layout it looks like you will be doing a lot of the utility casting for the group. In that case the spell domain might be a good investment, it is in the spell compendium and will allow you to cast 2 wizard spells each day. This would be very useful in gaining utility spells. The travel domain also looks good to give your team good mobility.

[Jagged]

okay, I'll look into the spell domain.

But what would you recomend to meet the requirements for the Boneknight PrC?

[Havok4]

The only tricky bit is getting the ride ranks up to six as it is not a cleric skill, which could be done at 9th level with a pure cleric. There are ways to get it as a class skill but those generally result in the loss of a caster level. But one of those methods is ordained champion, which could be a good investment anyway.

[Negative Zero]

The only tricky bit is getting the ride ranks up to six as it is not a cleric skill, which could be done at 9th level with a pure cleric. There are ways to get it as a class skill but those generally result in the loss of a caster level. But one of those methods is ordained champion, which could be a good investment anyway.

Aren't there several feats that give you a class skill of your choice?

[snakeman830]

One thing in the domain section.  I fully agree with the classification of the Madness domain from the spell compendium, but what about the Madness Domain from the SRD?

This domain boosts your spell numbers and their saves considerably and, in my opinion, is a worthwhile choice for a domain.

[AfterCrescent]

The only tricky bit is getting the ride ranks up to six as it is not a cleric skill, which could be done at 9th level with a pure cleric. There are ways to get it as a class skill but those generally result in the loss of a caster level. But one of those methods is ordained champion, which could be a good investment anyway.

Aren't there several feats that give you a class skill of your choice?

There are some, and there are also some classes. If you're willing to lose 1 caster level, Human Paragon is my vote. It's well worth it, assuming UA is available.

One thing in the domain section.  I fully agree with the classification of the Madness domain from the spell compendium, but what about the Madness Domain from the SRD?

This domain boosts your spell numbers and their saves considerably and, in my opinion, is a worthwhile choice for a domain.

That domain is from either D&Dg or ELH. Either way, it's 3.0, and outdated. The Madness domain was 'updated' in Spell Compendium.

If you're running 3.0, go for it, I guess.

[Jagged]

okay

I looked into the Madness and Magic domains but I feel that Travel and Trickery will suit teh character better
The DM's aproved that I'll use a homemade Diety called The Elusive Fool.

As I was planing on going true neutral ordained champion won't work.

Human Paragon could very well work. cleric 6/ Human Paragon 1 would get me into Bone Knight.
But then why not take fighter or barbarian? then I'd be able to skip one cleric level before going into Bone Knight due to the +1 BAB. HP won't really give me anything except that I may treat one skill of my choice as a class skill for all lvl's.
Using fighter/barbarian I get +1 BAB as well as fast movement & rage / 1 feat, and the barbarians skill point/lvl is also 4+int mod, just as HP.

for my untraind eye barbarian looks the best. faster to bone knight, weapon profiencys, can move 30 ft in heavy armor, if the need arises I'll have a rage as well as the skillpoints needed.

Thought, comments, sugenstions?


As for race it seems as due to the need of cross classing it would suck whit the 20% exp penalty if I went whit Cangeling, or is that not aplied to PrC's?

[AfterCrescent]

Um, check Barbarian again, okay? It loses Fast Movement (arguably the only reason to take it) in heavy armor. Rage is terrible for a cleric, as you lose the ability to cast spells.

Talk to your DM about Partial BAB. If he's okay with it (it makes sense). Go Human Paragon 3/Cleric 3. You get a +2 Wis, a free feat, Ride as a class skill, and only lose 1 CL.

Most experienced DMs do away with multiclass penalties. However, if your DM doesn't, alternate HP/Cleric and you won't suffer any. No, PRCs do not use multiclass penalties.

[Jagged]

you are all to right about the barbarian. Guess I didn't check all the descriptions last night.

Partial BAB? increce evry lvl whit HP? (new term to me)

[Negative Zero]

With partial BAB, a level of Wizard (1/2 BAB) and a level of Sorcerer (1/2 BAB) will add up to 1 full point of BAB. Wizard 1/Cleric 2 adds up to a BAB of 2, et cetera.

[GawainBS]

See Unearthed Arcana p.73; it's explained in greater detail there.

[Jagged]

my bad....

[KellKheraptis]

Um, check Barbarian again, okay? It loses Fast Movement (arguably the only reason to take it) in heavy armor. Rage is terrible for a cleric, as you lose the ability to cast spells.

Talk to your DM about Partial BAB. If he's okay with it (it makes sense). Go Human Paragon 3/Cleric 3. You get a +2 Wis, a free feat, Ride as a class skill, and only lose 1 CL.

Most experienced DMs do away with multiclass penalties. However, if your DM doesn't, alternate HP/Cleric and you won't suffer any. No, PRCs do not use multiclass penalties.

Actually, if Dragon Magazine is allowed, there is a feat called Raged Casting that lets you do just that, cast while raging.

[AfterCrescent]

Good to know. Probably still not a worthwhile dip, but it might be useful.

[KellKheraptis]

Good to know. Probably still not a worthwhile dip, but it might be useful.

Far more useful with the monk variant from dragon (the same issue in fact) that lets a monk trade FoB (and one or two other useless abilities...) for Rage progression.

[AfterCrescent]

How is that more useful? You lose out on HP, BAB, basically anything useful Barbarian might give you to get what? Wis to AC unarmored? For 90%+ of cleric builds, that's not worthwhile.

[PhaedrusXY]

How is that more useful? You lose out on HP, BAB, basically anything useful Barbarian might give you to get what? Wis to AC unarmored? For 90%+ of cleric builds, that's not worthwhile.

Not to mention that you can just buy a freakin' monk's belt.

[AfterCrescent]

Exactly.

[KellKheraptis]

Figured I'd throw it out there...if for some reason you want rage, 9th level spells, and monk abilities/Wis to AC, you can have your cake and eat it too.  You just won't be a CoM