The 3.5 Cleric Handbook

[AfterCrescent]

Probably sooner. 8th level is the earliest you can get in, so if you want to go that route, go for it.

[PhaedrusXY]

I was not awake you could mimic spells with silent image.

You can't normally. That's the whole point of SCM. That's what it does. It turns certain Illusion (Glamer) spells into Shadow Conjuration/Evocation spells spontaneously, which are used to mimic Evocation or Conjuration (Creation or Summoning) spells from the Wiz/Sorc list. What's neat is that you can do it as a cleric, and so spontaneously "cast" those spells, which aren't even on your normal spell list.

[DetectiveJabsco]

Whats the best level to start taking Dweomerkeeper, If playing a 1-20?
I'm thinking CC5/CI3/DK2/Con3/DK7
Any thoughts?

[AfterCrescent]

Really, I'm a fan of getting your mantles early and hitting 9th level Dwk at 17th level, so 9th level spells = Final Mantle.

Also, cloistered cleric is a decent choice to stay in, if for Lore alone (although not a catch all) I also like Divine Oracle, if you can fit it in. Contemplative 2-3 aren't strong in my opinion, so I'd drop them for DO 1-2 (again, I love the class, so I may be a bit biased ). Either way, I'd put Contemplative or Con/DO as 18-20. Finish strong. This can vary, of course, depending on the game and if you find you need Prescient sense or an extra domain ASAP.

[DetectiveJabsco]

CC3/CI3/DO2/DK9/DO3

Maybe?
You think?

[AfterCrescent]

DO 5 is a trap. It's a 2/4/6/or 10 level class.

CC3/CI5/DK10/DO2 is solid. Drop 2 CI for 2 more DO if you want. Pierce illusion/disguise are kinda weak, in my opinion, so even CC 3/CI2/DO2/Dwk3/Con1/Do 2 and Dwk 7 in any order works. Remember, Dwk 10 is a godsend. Incatrix style power.  It's just that damn good.

[DetectiveJabsco]

KK, thanks.

[Void84]

Hey everyone,

I'm gonna make my first cleric and I've been reading this guide and others I found on the web.

Most of them say that I should take the planning domain for the extend feat for free

but if I want to make an Ordained Champion later on I have to follow hextor or heironeous (heironeous in my case since I'll be good)

But from what I understand it won't work since planning domain isn't on heironeous's domain list. (I'll be playing in faerun but planning isn't on the equivalent in that too).

In a some of the guides and builds I see the cleric follow a god and then take domain that don't have anything to do with him.

Is that a bending of a rule or did I miss something?

And I was only thinking of taking ordained close to the last levels so if it doesn't work I was thinking of not having a deity so in that case what weapon do I get weapon focus for if I take the war domain?

Would appreciate any help regarding those two questions

thanks

[AndyJames]

You can take domains without worshipping specific gods. It is in the PHB. You basically worship an ideal and so can pick anything you want. In your case, I think there is a god that has both: The Red Knight from the Forgotten Realms campaign.

In other mythology, I think Athena would also suit you (War through tactics and strategy, i.e., Planning).

[Void84]

Ok, in that case I can't become an Ordained Champion since I don't follow heironeous but ok it wasn't that important.

But what weapon focus feat do I get if I follow an ideal like you say?

[Tshern]

It is based on your alignment, the rules are in the PHB.

And use the adaptation section of Ordained Champion.

[AndyJames]

Actually, I don't think it says definitively what WF you get. The only part that says anything about what weapon is Spiritual Weapon. I think...

[Tshern]

Really?

[Void84]

wow thanks didn't know there was an adaptation section for the ordained! The red knight is one of the gods in forgotten realms I can use so it's perfect

[AfterCrescent]

Technically speaking, the War domain grants you WF and proficiency in the weapon of your deity. Without a deity, the domain grants you nothing. A bit technical, but it could happen. AJ is right though, Spiritual Weapon lists the weapons of alignments, which is probably the best way to handle it, logically.

[carnivore]

there are several other patrons in Forgotten realms,... that give Planning Domain:

Ubtao N Balance(Under), Planning(FRCS), Plant, Protection, Scalykind(FRCS) ....heavy pick
Gond N Craft (FRCS), Earth, Fire, Knowledge, Metal (FRCS), Planning(FRCS) ....warhammer
Helm LN Law, Planning(FRCS), Protection, Strength ......bastard sword
Red Knight LN Law, Nobility(FRCS), Planning(FRCS), War .....longsword
Siamorphe LN Knowledge, Law, Nobility (FRCS), Planning(FRCS) .....light mace

Amaunator(need Servant of the Fallen feat ) LN Law, Nobility(FRCS), Planning(FRCS), Sun, Time(FRCS) ......light mace
Ramman(need Servant of the Fallen feat ) LN Law, Planning(FRCS), Protection, War ........khopesh

Ilneval(Orc pantheon) (L) NE Destruction, Evil, Orc (FRCS), Planning(FRCS), War ......longsword
Sseth (I)(imprisoned) CE Air, Animal, Chaos, Evil, Knowledge, Magic, Planning(FRCS), Scalykind(FRCS), Trickery ......scimitar
Maglubiyet(Goblinoids) (G) [NE]  Destruction, Evil, Planning(FRCS), Trickery ....... warhammer


 

 

[AndyJames]

Look in Complete Warrior. There are a bunch of gods there with the Planning domain, and I think many of them have War also.

[Void84]

yeah thanks guys but gonna take Red knight

since from the ordained champion adaption in complete champion it says in forgotten that good gods to replace hextor/heironeous are : Red knight, tempus and tyr.

So Red knight is the one that fits the most

[Omen of Peace]

I'm dipping Cleric for a build so I came back here for a gander. Awesome !  Especially the rated domains (that's what I used this time).

- for the Shadow domain (ECS) I'd note that it gives the Shadow Conj/Evoc line. That's a nice utility boost for a Cleric, even if I agree what you're rating (domain power) is subpar.

- Destruction Devotion: you don't spend an immediate action each round. Only one at the beginning to activate it... just like many other Devotion feats. I think it's pretty decent: most enemies will have either an armor or a natural armor bonus to AC. I'd give it a black or blue rating.

- Luck Devotion is +0.5 dmg on average on a d6, +0.75 on a d8, +1.25 on a d12. I'd give it a red rating.

- instead of the Restful Crystal, I recommend the Restful armor property (Dungeonscape 39). Does the same and more for the same price.

- Ghost Touch sucks as a weapon enhancement. There are cheaper and better ways : a weapon crystal, several items - Ghost Shroud, Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting (MIC 216) which also lets your spells affect incorporeals...

[AfterCrescent]

I'm dipping Cleric for a build so I came back here for a gander. Awesome !  Especially the rated domains (that's what I used this time).

Thanks. Glad it helped.

- for the Shadow domain (ECS) I'd note that it gives the Shadow Conj/Evoc line. That's a nice utility boost for a Cleric, even if I agree what you're rating (domain power) is subpar.

Agreed. The Shadow line is useful utility, and not nearly as 'cheesy' as Shadowcraft Mage.

- Destruction Devotion: you don't spend an immediate action each round. Only one at the beginning to activate it... just like many other Devotion feats. I think it's pretty decent: most enemies will have either an armor or a natural armor bonus to AC. I'd give it a black or blue rating.

Ah, so you are right. I must have misread it when I first did this. Consider it changed. Good find. Thanks

- Luck Devotion is +0.5 dmg on average on a d6, +0.75 on a d8, +1.25 on a d12. I'd give it a red rating.

Except that D&D doesn't actually use decimals. On a d6, 50% of the time, you roll below average (1-3) and your damage is boosted 1-3 points.  That's with a d6. Try a melee focused cleric that's doing 12d6+ each hit. An additional 12-36 damage can be very nice. It doesn't work in every build, but it's far from craptastic.

- instead of the Restful Crystal, I recommend the Restful armor property (Dungeonscape 39). Does the same and more for the same price.

Restful Armor is useful (I hadn't scanned through Dungeonscape when doing items), but I would still much rather have the Restful Crystal. It can be gotten earlier than the Armor property (500gp vs 1,500) and can be transfered when/if you upgrade items. It's overall more versatile. However, the armor property is definitely useful if you have another crystal you'd like to use.

- Ghost Touch sucks as a weapon enhancement. There are cheaper and better ways : a weapon crystal, several items - Ghost Shroud, Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting (MIC 216) which also lets your spells affect incorporeals...

I disagree. It does NOT suck as a weapon enhancement. While it is not amazing, it is a solid choice, as I stated.   The Truedeath Crystal is one option, true, but what happens when you face an incorpreal construct? I'd like to be able to use my demolition crystal, thank you very much. I'm also a fan of using my other magic item slots for items that don't suck (Ghost Shroud) and are useful (Strongarm bracers vs. Gauntlets of Ghost Fighting).

Yes, there are alternatives to ghost touch. And yes, it is not the only and/or best way to be able to strike incorpreal creatures, but it's a solid option.