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Author Topic: How do we solve the mobility problem?  (Read 1058 times)
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jpjandrade
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« on: June 25, 2009, 10:46:12 PM »

(I've posted this message in Wizard's previous edition boards, but go only two replies. Since then, I've found out about this amazing forum, so I figured I'd get a better response here)

I'm here to ask for one of those "I dislike 4e but I miss this in 3.5 games" advices, the mobility problem.

4e gave a lot of powers the slide/push/pull effect, which really gave a new tactical facet to our combats. After going back to 3.5, this is something I'm really missing. The only moving capability my player's have is Bull Rush, and without the Improved feat, it's really a sub par option.

How have you guys (if at all) solved this issue? I was thinking of as a hard and fast rule, do a certain damage threshold, and when you deal that amount of damage, you can push the target 5 feet. But I really would like a nice system.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 10:48:15 PM by jpjandrade » Logged
bkdubs123
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 10:56:39 PM »

Well, I think without a complete rewrite you're just not going to get it. When I design new classes though I tend to make Bull Rush attempts a part of a lot of attacks and spells. The Shift/Pull/Slide mechanics are a bit different however, and could certainly be ported into 3.5, but they would need to be defined, and added in with a whole slew of new material.
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Soda
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 11:02:15 PM »

You could try altering the way bull rush works. In Star Wars Saga Edition, Bantha Rush lets you push the target one square whenever you hit with a melee attack, and Improved Bantha Rush makes it 1+ 1/2 Str mod squares instead. So you don't have to spend your action for a chance to move them, you just attack and move them in addition to damage if you'd like.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 11:05:04 PM by Soda » Logged
Kerrick
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 11:07:24 AM »

I did overhaul the combat maneuver system, with EjoThims' help, because I had the same complaints as you. You can take a look at it here.
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Project Phoenix. 4E the way it should have been done.
woodenbandman
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 12:02:44 PM »

Well there's always Knockback.
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jpjandrade
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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2009, 09:22:57 PM »

I did overhaul the combat maneuver system, with EjoThims' help, because I had the same complaints as you. You can take a look at it here.
Yeah, it looks good. It's nothing like 4e, but makes bull rushing / grappling more interesting choices. Definitely using for now. In fact, Project Phoenix has some good ideas I should borrow. Thanks for that!

You could try altering the way bull rush works. In Star Wars Saga Edition, Bantha Rush lets you push the target one square whenever you hit with a melee attack, and Improved Bantha Rush makes it 1+ 1/2 Str mod squares instead. So you don't have to spend your action for a chance to move them, you just attack and move them in addition to damage if you'd like.
Where is it? I only have the Core rulebook, can't find it on it =(

Well there's always Knockback.
Is it a spell / feat / something?

Thanks!
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JaronK
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« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 03:11:51 AM »

Knockback is a feat, you must be large, and if you hit hard enough they get bull rushed automatically when you hit them.  Awesome with the Dungeoncrasher ACF for Fighters.  For a good example of a build specialized around this concept, consider Lion Totem Wolf Totem Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 2/Dungeoncrasher Fighter 6/War Hulk 10/X2, where X is pretty much anything you want (I recommend Martial Rogue for the extra feats).  Wield a +1 Valorous Skillfull Spiked Shield, buy a permanent Enlarge Person, and go nuts.  On a human your feats would be Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Trip (free from Wolf Totem), Improved Bull Rush, Knockback, Improved Shield Bash, Shield Charge, Shock Trooper, Shield Slam, and whatever else floats your boat.

Now whenever you charge, you hit everyone within reach with a full attack (so they all get hit by all the attacks).  Anyone hit by this is tripped (vs your incredible strength score) and dazed (save based on strength) and knocked back, and if they hit anyone else that person is tripped too.  Also, anyone who is knocked back and hits a wall takes a ton more damage, and you already do insane amounts of damage, and anyone you trip also gets hit a second time... and that extra hit also hits everyone else in range against.  So it looks like the following:

Imagine there are three medium enemies next to each other with a fourth behind them (a classic meat shield wall in front of a caster), and you charge them, like so:

Code:
        Wiz
Tank1 Tank2 Tank3
        YOUYOU
        YOUYOU

You're big, hence so many yous.  Anyway, because of Lion Totem you have pounce, and with Skilfull you have a BAB of +14 at, say, level 19.  So you have three attacks.  The first attack hits all of them due to War Hulk.  First, let's calculate Tank 1.  You hit him, which trips (Shield Charge) and dazes (Shield Slam) him and knocks him back (Knockback).  Before he can move, you get a second attack against him (due to Improved Trip) but this attack hits everyone else again.  Now he goes flying back right through the Wizard (Shocktrooper's directed bull rush) which gives you an attack against the Wizard too... unless the tank dies first (which he well might) giving you a cleave attack.  You can see how ugly this gets.  Enemies just go flying.  If you wield a +1 Skillfull Spinning Sword as well, you can make attacks against people who get tripped by Directed Bull Rush pushing people into them, even if they're out of range of your shield.  Whee!

JaronK
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