A guide to Wizards: Playing a GOD

[CantripN]

Yo. Just wanted to drop by and say that I fully intend to write a Guide-Update for the Evocation section, using any and all books I can get (which is EVERY BOOK there is, given time). Let me just say that I fully expect Evokers to become far more common following this, especially in games allowing all books. Hell, I'll even suggest PrCs and feats.

Maybe I'll make it into a Gods That Can Blast thread... 

Still, I'm a busy soldier of little fortune, so that may take a few weeks... 

I'd be interested to see.  Not that I consider a blaster wizard a God...no matter how much goes boom.  When a God Wizard sees another wizard blasting he thinks, "sigh...poor bastard is doing all the hard work himself..."

It's not the size of the boom (even though that's an important part of it... ), it's how you use it. Does a spell that offer a No Save Slow (and if you fail the save, you're Paralyzed) suck? Does one that traps foes inside a Globe of (Wall) of Force, doing damage every round with , oh, Maw of Chaos?

Can anyone else deal 20d10 each round to interrupt actions, without using ANY action on your part?

It's not that dealing damage is godly, it's that you can be godly while dealing damage. Or you can deal (un?)godly amounts of damage.

BTW, Maw of Chaos should TOTALLY be an Evocation spell.

[bayar]

Why am I always thinking about Maw of Chaos as a bear head, mauling the target ?

[Guyr Adamantine]

Being able to make fake (and free) dragon allies is, IMO, enough to justify bumping shades up a level.  Either you can offer the shadow-created dragons their lives in exchange for service to you, or just give them cash and pick it back up when they disappear.  Either way, an army of dragons who literally owe their lives to you is too good to pass up.

Anybody else reminded of The Colour of Magic?

[Treantmonklvl20]

Level 7
Dragon Ally (SpC): (Summoning): Makes the call inevitable spells seem cheap. I include only this one spell (though they line up with the call inevitable spells exactly). The XP costs are the same – but now you can give them all your gold as well (minimum 50gp per HD of dragon). This is basically the wizard’s answer to the Planar Ally spells. However, the wizard didn’t NEED an answer to those spells. Not recommended for prohibitive costs.

Being able to make fake (and free) dragon allies is, IMO, enough to justify bumping shades up a level.  Either you can offer the shadow-created dragons their lives in exchange for service to you, or just give them cash and pick it back up when they disappear.  Either way, an army of dragons who literally owe their lives to you is too good to pass up.

In the original guide back in those old boards, one of the first replies I had to the Illusion guide was that I ranked Shades to low (I gave it a Thumbs up) because it could mimic any Conjuration spell unlike the other Shadow Conjuration spells.  I never replied my immediate reaction - which was WHAT!?!    Frankly - I didn't want the inevitible argument at the time.  I am thinking that this is a common belief of the way the spell works?

I almost hate to say this (because - as per usual - I will contravine common belief, and fully expect a backlash), but rumors that Shades works for Calling spells are incorrect.  (Did I say Dragon Ally spells were summoning?  Ooops - they are calling spells - this may also be where the confusion lie - if so, my bad.).  I am quite certain of this.  There is a habit amongst CO to interpret rules in the most liberal way possible - but the wording is too clear in Shades to back up the belief that it mimics any Conjuration spell of 8th level or lower.

Shades Spell Description - word for word: This spell functions like shadow conjuration, except that it mimics sorcerer and wizard conjuration spells of 8th level or lower.  The illusionary conjurations created deal four-fifths (80%) damage to nobelievers, and nondamaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers.

In order for the restrictions of Summoning/Creation that exist with Shadow Conjuration not to apply - It would need to state it did not apply (with such wording as "except that it mimics any Conjuration spell of 8th level or lower", or "it mimics conjuration spells other than summoning/creation").

So this is where the common belief that Shades mimics "any" Conjuration spell of 8th level or lower came from.  Simply, the spell Shades (after saying it functions as Shadow Conjuration with the listed exceptions), does not restate that it only mimics Creation/Summoning conjuration spells.  However, a restate is not necessary - soon as they say it functions as Shadow Conjuration - the restriction is there.  Unless something they say in the exceptions specifically removes that restriction - saying again that it is there is simply redundancy.

The list of exceptions is quite clear:
- The Conjuration spell may be up to 8th level
- The illusionary Conjuration does 80% damage to nonbelievers
- Non-damaging conjurations are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers

Other than those exceptions - it functions like Shadow Conjuration - which only mimics Conjuration (Summoning) and Conjuration (Creation)

Sorry guys. 

(And - even if it did mimic Calling spells - they don't work the way you describe.  If Shadow Magic were to somehow apply to Calling or Teleportation spells - they would operate in the same way.  The creature is not a spell effect - only what brought it to you is a spell effect.  That is the difference between Calling and Summoning.)

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Dragon ally is a conjuration (summoning) spell.  That's why the trick works.

Unless there's some eratta I'm not aware of?  My copy says summoning right there on page 111.


I suppose one broken trick isn't technically enough to rank a spell higher - but it might be a decent foot note for the dragon ally series, if nothing else.


There are two possible interpretations:
A) Illusionary summoned creatures drop all non-illusionary objects they're carrying when they duration ends.  You keep the gold
B) Illusionary summoned creatures destroy all non-illusionary objects they're carrying when the duration ends.  You now can kill anything by grappling it with illusions for long enough, or destroy any item by handing it off to an illusion with a round of duration left.

Either way, it's quite powerful.


Also, shades + trap the soul?  Silliness.

[Agita]

Also, shades + trap the soul?  Silliness.

What would happen if the creature in question made its save? Would only 80% of it be trapped?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Also, shades + trap the soul?  Silliness.

What would happen if the creature in question made its save? Would only 80% of it be trapped?

I think it would only be trapped 80% of the time.

The real question is, what's it trapped in? 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Dragon ally is a conjuration (summoning) spell.  That's why the trick works.

Unless there's some eratta I'm not aware of?  My copy says summoning right there on page 111.

Ummm...in my Spell Compendium, Dragon Ally is on pg 72, and it is Conjuration (Calling).  There must have been a change somewhere along the line.  However, yes, it is a calling spell.  If it used to be Summoning, I'm glad they changed it - requiring bribes for a summoned creature is pretty weird.

Though that does explain the miscommunication.

As for Shades/Trap the Soul - yep, that should work by RAW, but if I was DM'ing - I would have a hard time explaining how.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I see.  I was looking it up in the draconomicon.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

So, anyway, I'm surprised that "contact other plane" isn't listed under divinations?  Why?

Because having the right spell prepared is the difference between awesome and less awesome.  Having the best possible five spells prepared?  Distinctly most awesome. 

Let me copypasta from myself.

Let's say a wizard has, oh, a selection of thirty possible spells he can choose from to prepare in his higher level slots. 

He writes them on a numbered list.

He casts Contact Other Plane.  Having at least a +6 bonus to int by now, he can take 10 on the ability check and always succeed in contacting a Greater Deity on an Outer Plane.  88% of the time, he gets the correct one-word answer to any question he asks.  At CL 10, you can ask five questions per casting.

Question 1 "what is the number of the spell on this list that will be most beneficial for me to prepare in the next week?"
Question 2 "what is the number of the spell on this list that is the second most beneficial for me to prepare in the next week?"
Question 3 "what is the number of the spell on this list that is the third most beneficial for me to prepare in the next week?"
Question 4 "what is the number of the spell on this list that is the fourth most beneficial for me to prepare in the next week?"
Question 5 "what is the number of the spell on this list that is the fifth most beneficial for me to prepare in the next week?"

Now, as there's no material or XP component, you can spam this spell as much as you want.  Two castings (asking the same questions) will give you a 98.5% chance of getting the right answer at least once, and less than a (10%/29)^2 = 0.0012% chance of getting the same wrong answer twice. 

You could ask different questions to get similar results - the method I had was just a little easier. 

Other questions might, for instance, ask "What type of creatures, from the following list: {Abberation, construct, dragon, elemental, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, outsider, plant, undead, vermin} will, in the next week, pose the greatest danger to me?"

Or ask if you're going to be facing enemies immune to mind effecting spells, or energy drain, or fire, or whatever.  The sky's the limit.


As a fifth level spell, using multiple contact other planes isn't going to cut into a wiz20's spell assortment at all.  At higher levels, he's going to say "in the next 48 hours", or "in the next day", and have the answer for his top 10 spells.  Rock on!

So, practically speaking, the high level wizard *will* always have the right spells prepared.

[Caelic]

The problem there is logistics, Linguist.  In theory, that would work; in practice, the DM can't see the future and can't actually determine which spell is going to be of most use.  He can make educated guesses, but he can't (for example) know in advance that the wizard is going to conjure up a Phantasmal Steed, have it blown out from under him, and absolutely require a Feather Fall spell.

[Chemus]

Let the player cheat the same way the DM can cheat then...he gets perhaps 3 or 5 open slots that he can insta-prepare and cast from... Like some DM's do for their really insightful casters. In fact, why not allow the really intelligent/wise casters to do that anyway? The player is probably not a super-genius IRL, give him a little leeway; 1/2 his casting modifier in spells that he can have open-prepped. (Sorcerers are just hosed; but they're dumb anyway )

[Midnight_v]

disregard. 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Let the player cheat the same way the DM can cheat then...he gets perhaps 3 or 5 open slots that he can insta-prepare and cast from... Like some DM's do for their really insightful casters.

It could also be treated as a self-fufilling prophecy.  He says "featherfall, shatter, telekinesis, prismatic sphere, and Shades", and what do you know, your phantasmal steed gets dispelled, the golem's made of glass, you need to smash things with heavy boulders, and trap something's soul while protected from the attacks of an oncoming dragon.

[Generic_PC]

Universal spells are all kinds of oddball, but i think that it might be helpful to have a short, mini-section on them. Then again the total number of them in the books i have(SpC, PHBII, PHB) is like 15, so it might not be worth it. That being said, they do serve pretty important roles, in almost any guide. Especially permanancy. the Efreeti wish-stick is pretty important too, but not in the same way.

@Mad_Linguist...

The other problem with that is metagaming. The DM i have currently cracks down on it pretty hard, so i have to be pretty careful with my questions (No creature type lists...). That being said, asking something like: "Will we be embattled (i've always wanted to use that word... i never have in real conversations...) most often in the next 2 days by monsters which are resistant to: (energy types)?" Im sure that might work. Also, this complaint won't fly with all DMs, valid as it may be in my experience.

[Negative Zero]

EDIT: Who cares what the DM might say. What board do I think I'm on, here?

Carry on.

[Echoes]

On the topic of shades: the strongest argument I can see for shades not being limited to conjuration (creation) and (summoning) spells is that greater shadow conjuration has the exact same wording in it's first sentence as shades except that it explicitly calls out the restriction, just like shadow conjuration. That they didn't repeat the restriction with shades is telling since the precedent is to reiterate the restrictions rather than to omit them. Admittedly it's not an air-tight argument, but I think it definitely has some weight behind it.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

The other problem with that is metagaming. The DM i have currently cracks down on it pretty hard, so i have to be pretty careful with my questions (No creature type lists...).

How far can you go?  Can you ask about the fields of knowledge that include the creatures you'll fight most next? 



Anyway, the fact that you can take 10 makes it as useful as Divination (if not more so) 

[Foot]

Vertigo (PHB II) (BC): * Debuff that targets will. For 1 round/level if the opponent fails a will save, they must make a DC 10 balance check or they can't take a move action (and fall prone if missed by 5 or more). The weaknesses of this spell are: 1) single opponent saves and the spell is wasted, 2) If they have balance, or a decent dex, this spell won't accomplish much.

Could Vertigo be upgraded to BC/Debuff?  It says: 

The subject must succeed on a DC 10 Balance check at the start of each turn to take a move action.  If it fails, it cannot move. If it fails the
check by 5 or more, it falls prone. While affected, the subject also takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and saving throws.

The way I read it, there is the Balance check that can be passed or failed AND the target takes -2 on attacks and saves, even if they made the balance check (but failed the Will save).  Maybe if the spell had been worded in the right order of events, like this instead:  If the target fails the Will save, he now is -2 to attack and saves, AND every round they must make a balance check or fall-down-go-boom.

Also, from the PHB:

Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can’t move to avoid a blow, and thus
you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren’t considered flat-footed while
balancing. If you take damage while balancing, you must make another Balance check against the same DC to remain standing.

Even if they make the balance check they are rogue bait, unless they have high balance.  Cast this one on a BDF (low Will Saves, Balance not a class skill).

I like this spell, it's probably not worthy, but it's pretty neat.  I might be partial to it because I like trying to scare the hell out of my enemies and mess with their heads.   

[Dan2]

I apologize, but I haven't been keeping up with this.
It isn't my work, and I 'ported it here from the WotC boards.

I'll likely not change anything unless asked by the original author.