Differences in playstyle.

[woodenbandman]

I'm in a group that's more story oriented, and I'm a "power gamer." This causes a lot of problems in the group. I admit that a lot of them are my fault, but a lot of them are due to DM not knowing the rules and getting mad when I try to correct him.

My basic question for a discussion is: How do you deal with players that have a playstyle that differs from the group's?

[emissary666]

Power gamer by WotC or BG terms?

[woodenbandman]

In the sense that I like power and I want more of it. I like killing shit.

So I think that's BG terms, yeah.

[Josh]

To be clear in Gameology jargon: Power Gamer is an "overdone payout" it is essentially someone who likes power for their character and is in some way causing problems with the rest of the group because of that.

For example, this situation here.

You do two primary things:

1) reduce your footprint.  I am not saying power around less I am saying power around less noticeably.  In my 4e group my character is without a doubt the most maxed out character, except that I made a warlord.  So no one can tell that my character is so powerful because his power is to empower others.

There are lots of ways to be subtle with your character.

2) Figure out what others want and help them get it.  People wont care how much you can kick ass, if you are helping with their goals.

[InnaBinder]

The first thing that comes to mind is what I've done in my group since it became clear I was more interested in min/max options than they were: choose you character last.  This is, I think, parallel to Josh's points of reducing a footprint and helping others with their goals.

Let everyone else pick their role and niche in the party.  Then, pick the role that isn't covered, be it beatstick, healer, arcanist, face, archer, or what have you , and do your level best not to trod on anyone else's shtick unduly.  This way, you're powerful without necessarily outshining someone else at their job, and are more likely to be appreciated by the group.

[RobbyPants]

My basic question for a discussion is: How do you deal with players that have a playstyle that differs from the group's?

As a general rule, I try to match the rest of the group as closely as I can and am willing.  What I mean by "am willing" is that I don't like cheating when I play D&D (or any other game), so if the other players are cheating, I won't cheat to keep up, but I will kick the optimizing up a notch or two to stay even.

Right now, I'm playing a conjurer in a game with one other player (playing a hexblade).  For the most part, I buff him, debuff and hinder the enemies, and let him kill most things.  In general, I try not to outclass him too much (at least overtly), so I think he's having fun with it.  Also, I have avoided taking certain spells like Polymorph, as I have more respect for the DM's game than that.  I also haven't used Abrupt Jaunt to it's fullest potential.  Basically, I'm trying to keep it fun for everyone (although last session, the other player told me he wanted to play a wizard for his next character ).

When I run games, I try to take multiple playing styles into account.  For the most part, my "core" group of players were never strong into optimizing anyway, so I'd design encounters around that.  I think I'd have a hard time running a pre-published module as-is and not having a TPK.

I'm in a group that's more story oriented, and I'm a "power gamer." This causes a lot of problems in the group. I admit that a lot of them are my fault, but a lot of them are due to DM not knowing the rules and getting mad when I try to correct him.

That's alwyas my biggest problem: shutting up when the DM is screwing up the rules, espescially when it doesn't really matter.  I don't have a real problem if the DM has houserules, but I like to know them up front.  I hate when I can't tell if they're doing something differently because they don't know the rules, or it's a house-rule.  I also twitch a little bit when their house-rules show that they really don't understand the game that much in the first place.

[woodenbandman]

My basic question for a discussion is: How do you deal with players that have a playstyle that differs from the group's?

As a general rule, I try to match the rest of the group as closely as I can and am willing.  What I mean by "am willing" is that I don't like cheating when I play D&D (or any other game), so if the other players are cheating, I won't cheat to keep up, but I will kick the optimizing up a notch or two to stay even.

Right now, I'm playing a conjurer in a game with one other player (playing a hexblade).  For the most part, I buff him, debuff and hinder the enemies, and let him kill most things.  In general, I try not to outclass him too much (at least overtly), so I think he's having fun with it.  Also, I have avoided taking certain spells like Polymorph, as I have more respect for the DM's game than that.  I also haven't used Abrupt Jaunt to it's fullest potential.  Basically, I'm trying to keep it fun for everyone (although last session, the other player told me he wanted to play a wizard for his next character ).

When I run games, I try to take multiple playing styles into account.  For the most part, my "core" group of players were never strong into optimizing anyway, so I'd design encounters around that.  I think I'd have a hard time running a pre-published module as-is and not having a TPK.

I'm in a group that's more story oriented, and I'm a "power gamer." This causes a lot of problems in the group. I admit that a lot of them are my fault, but a lot of them are due to DM not knowing the rules and getting mad when I try to correct him.

That's alwyas my biggest problem: shutting up when the DM is screwing up the rules, espescially when it doesn't really matter.  I don't have a real problem if the DM has houserules, but I like to know them up front.  I hate when I can't tell if they're doing something differently because they don't know the rules, or it's a house-rule.  I also twitch a little bit when their house-rules show that they really don't understand the game that much in the first place.

That^ is totally my problem. Like 100%. Also, I played a druid, before I knew how to optimize, then I figured out how to play a druid, and I got way too powerful. So I swapped characters to be less powerful, but now the DM keeps throwing stuff that's horribly overpowered such as evoker wizards that deal 300 damage to everything ever (not good for a player, good for a 1/day encounter), epic level chameleons... So he gets mad at me for being powerful, but he throws things that are horribly overpowered at us... and complains when I complain.

[Mondfelsen]

My first thought is to get your character killed (I have no idea how painful that would be for you, but lets keep going with this), start a seriously sick buffer cleric, and just make all the unoptimized characters as good as they can possibly be. Maybe the bard mentioned in your sig can fulfill this role.

But if the whole group really isn't feeling this style of play, if it's an issue of their honest preferences rather then just not knowing how to work the system as well as you do, then maybe you need to start thinking about a different group. Again, I have no idea how painful this would be for you. But it's something to consider.

If they do want to be more effective, but don't know how, maybe you can introduce them to forums like these.

[woodenbandman]

He made a dumb rule saying no new characters past level 10.

[BowenSilverclaw]

Even if you die?

[RobbyPants]

He made a dumb rule saying no new characters past level 10.

I'm hoping this only applies to if you want to switch characters, and not if you die.  Even still, it makes no sense why to apply this after level 10, and not before.

Wierd.

[BowenSilverclaw]

By the way, why are you even in this group if it sucks so hard? No D&D is better than sucky D&D...

[Zeke]

i disagree, I'd rather play in a bad game than no game at atll. (probably why Josh and I have been friends for so long)

[emissary666]

It depends on the suckitude of the D&D. The kind of DM wood is describing is the kind I would suggest NOT playing with, along with all the DMs I have played under.

[BowenSilverclaw]

Yeah, there's a difference between 'not that great' or 'could use some improvement'  vs.  'sucks-big-floppy-donkey-dick'...

[woodenbandman]

Well it's not as simple as me just leaving the group. We're friends, and we have been for years, and I'd really rather not let something dumb as a game of DnD come between us. We're nearing the end of this campaign, and after this campaign I'm going to run a pirate campaign which I've played out the prologue of.

And yeah, I can't change characters. I did once but that was because I was playing a druid and destroying the campaign. looking back, I now kinda wish that I still had that druid, because at least then I could put a stop to something incredibly stupid. Now my character's not powerful enough to stop it and I have to just roll with it.

I'm really looking at getting a new group, but as I've said, I don't want to leave these guys as they've been my friends for years and I still love hanging out with them. Hopefully if we do run a game again I'll be the DM. I find that I have a lot of fun as the DM, but I'm not that good at it either because I have a problem with preparing things. The one thing I can say about this DM is that he is good at preparing things, but he takes every criticism as an attack on his character.

I think that I might check out the possibility of a new gaming group. I live in San Francisco, so it shouldn't be hard to find one. Maybe I'll check out my semi-local gaming store.

[archangel.arcanis]

Well it's not as simple as me just leaving the group. We're friends, and we have been for years, and I'd really rather not let something dumb as a game of DnD come between us. We're nearing the end of this campaign, and after this campaign I'm going to run a pirate campaign which I've played out the prologue of.

And yeah, I can't change characters. I did once but that was because I was playing a druid and destroying the campaign. looking back, I now kinda wish that I still had that druid, because at least then I could put a stop to something incredibly stupid. Now my character's not powerful enough to stop it and I have to just roll with it.

I'm really looking at getting a new group, but as I've said, I don't want to leave these guys as they've been my friends for years and I still love hanging out with them. Hopefully if we do run a game again I'll be the DM. I find that I have a lot of fun as the DM, but I'm not that good at it either because I have a problem with preparing things. The one thing I can say about this DM is that he is good at preparing things, but he takes every criticism as an attack on his character.

I think that I might check out the possibility of a new gaming group. I live in San Francisco, so it shouldn't be hard to find one. Maybe I'll check out my semi-local gaming store.

that is the heart of the problem right there.  If a DM can't take properly worded criticism from one of his players then he is a weaker DM for it.  Differing play styles don't matter if the DM works to make sure everyone is having fun.

The DM throwing insane encounters at your party is also a big problem. If he is using a bunch of glass cannons that can pop in devastate the party then die there isn't much you can do.  Its like him throwing lite sticks of dynamite at the group when he has an unlimited stack of them. I wouldn't be surprised if he stated using creatures with death throws (like frost worms or draconians) just so you couldn't win for winning.  Ok i need to quite getting side tracked here. The problem sounds like he is enjoying the power to do whatever he wants to the party without regard to the group's feelings on the matter.  You also mentioned rules problems, are these characters even legal at the level he is making them?

I am pretty vocal about this because i have gone through the same thing.  My main group is finally starting to grow out of the whole "make up the rules as we go" mentality and really trying to use the rules when it won't bog the game down to a crawl.

[woodenbandman]

^Actually, now that you mention it, no, not really. He made a doppleganger epic chameleon, which allowed him to do whatever. Also he made a bunch of stuff for the other party members because they'd die a lot otherwise. I wonder why...

[Bryan_0697]

If you DM really well in your next campaign, maybe share with him some of the rules (break down the 4th wall just for future DMs). This might let him see that playing within the rules is what makes this a 'Game' and not freeform bullcrap ("I hit you." "No you don't!"). I do this in my own campaigns for one of my friends because he is reeeeaaallly slow at reading and I can read at light speed and remember everything - so I just teach him all the DM magic while we play that way when he DMs he can play by the rules without me having to whisper in his ear for entire combats.

I also vote for an Enabler character while you play in his campaigns - or any campaign where you play with the unoptimized and illogical.