remember the iron siege?

[carnivore]

i would still like to run my build but ..... Tshern you havent responded as to whether i need to change anything or if it is ok as is .... i can repost it if needed

 

[Sippin]

I would like to say if it sounds like i was saying you, Tshern, were not playing by the rules in the challenge I apologize. On all your attempts I have seen nothing untoward, some others runs have been less so.

Dispater certainly doesnt have the ability to call other Lords of the Nine, but he doesnt need to if you let him use diplomacy. If Dispater knew it was the only way he would survive, he would make any sacrifice or pay any price to get even one of their help. Between eons of contracts, his cunning, his resources and his diplomatic skill it isnt that implausible for him to be able to do so (incredibly difficult sure, but if the DM says he can manage to get/buy/coerce their help he can). It is even more plausible for him to coerce some of the Gods on god street who missed the "preventing Dispater's death" clause in their contracts. It is also pretty reasonable to for him to know we are coming and prepare. I was trying to say that with Dispaters resources and intelligence, the DM could throw essentially anything at the challenger. If Dispater was sitting in a room with a million Belors (0% of his infinitely large army of Devils) and 100 epic level spellcaster, that would hardly be beyond his power. Or the one creature capable of defeating the challenger, or a tarrasque of legend trap, etc.

By checks and balances did PhaedrusXY and Mister Sinister do more than just make sure it was by the book? Nothing in the rules stop Dispater from making the tower a infinite series of trapped rooms with DCs past what the challenger can make. Or what is to stop Dispater simply have their be no entrance to it? It being infinite in size makes it effectively a dead end to actually pass through, a challenger has to bypass it straight to Dispater.

We can only get to Dispater by some form of infinite range teleport. To teleport to him we have to know where he is. To know where he is we have to do some kind of scry effect. Dispater is certainly shielded against all non-epic divination and scrying. It is doubtful we will get approval for a scry spell capable of finding him since that would turn the entire challenge into 1) scry 2) teleport 3) kill. Essentially we have to make Dispater come to us. Not impossible of course, but it will only happen if the DM wants it to.

As far as disclosure, with no disclosure challenger have to prepare for every possible threat. If you did full disclosure, they would still have to prepare for every possible threat since you can toss any threat you want at them. If Dispater had a bunch of stunning creatures one run, I doubt Dispater would toss a bunch of stunners against the stun-immune next challenger. The challenger will always be attacked by something that can exploit their weakness.

[PhaedrusXY]

From what I've seen nothing so contrived has been used. The resources used have all been things listed as being directly under Dispater's control, or stock magic effects. I hope I'm not giving too much away, Tshern. I don't think I am...

While Dispater could do such things, it wouldn't really be within the spirit of the challenge. To be fair, the challenger could also do pretty much the exact same things (the Diplomacy stuff, at least), and Tshern might even allow it for all I know. I think he had a house rule about how Diplomacy works, though, so as it isn't automatically game-breaking.

There are certainly other ways of "getting to him". I've thought of some myself, but have decided not to enter the contest as it might not be fair for me anymore, and I don't really have the time, anyway. I did make a contestant, though, and several others have pilfered custom Epic spells and SDAs from it, for which I'm flattered.

[carnivore]

usually many people who try dont realize what some of Dispaters abilities really mean ...... exa:

Ferric Affinity (Su): Having taken iron as his symbol,
Dispater enjoys a tremendous power over the silvergray
metal and all alloys composed predominantly of it.
He can sense all iron (or iron alloy) within 15 miles (18
miles when in Dis), can pinpoint its exact location (no
miss chance if attacking), and he can animate any such
object (so long as it is unattended) as a free action (but
never more than 38,400 pounds of objects at once). By
using a move action, he can see through iron or iron
alloys, and is then able to treat creatures on the far side
of such an obstacle as being both in his line of sight and
line of effect (the iron allows his spells and powers to
pass directly through). Dispater also adds wall of iron to
his list of spell-like abilities, usable at will.


in Dis .... everything is Iron ... all Dispater needs to do is be close the Characters but on the other side of something Iron to start messing with them

 

[archangel.arcanis]

close is a relative term since his spell range is the limiting factor. Since I'm fairly certain he can see for miles due to his divine rank. It also makes things like storm of vengeance or apocalypse from the sky interesting choices as I'm not sure how they would interact with his ability to ignore the iron buildings for LoE.

[Prime32]

Would it be considered a victory if you trapped Dispater in his tower forever with no way to affect the outside world?

[Tshern]

I, for one, am glad to see you're still continuing with this Tshern.

Continuing is such a strong word. University and all that comes with it is hitting me like a ton of bricks and it takes at least two more weeks for me to actually start anything serious with this, but with the holidays just around the corner... Who knows.

The_Mad_Linguist: Funny really, I just ate a Snickers bar, hopefully I didn't cough any on Dispater's character sheet!

carnivore: A repost might be in order. Better yet, if you could also PM it to me, I'd be grateful. At least it wouldn't get lost there.

Sippin: Speaking strictly following the rules, yes he could. However, according to the Dicefreaks fluff regarding the Perdition, he hates the Fallen, despises Mammon, loathes Leviathan and so forth until he is just left with Mephistopheles. Also, it is besides the point, since I have said a few times no such help will be used in the challenge.

PhaedrusXY: You are not giving too much away, I too have said on several occasions that the tricks I use are usually so mundane that people hardly ever even bother to consider them.

archangel.arcanis: Dispater has a cosmic ranks, not divine ranks.

Prime32: No, unfortunately not. Moreover, that is pretty much the situation Dispater is already in.

[Amechra]

I have a couple questions before I build a character (I'm not going to go through making a character sheet that frakking long w/o knowing this stuff.)

1. Can I create an Epic spell, record it on the proper medium, and then forget said spell? I.e., is there an effective limit on the epic spells I can create?

2. Are the Far Realms an eligible plane of existence for my divine realm?

3. Can epic spells be made that effect other epic spells; i.e., is a spell that hijacks the AoE of another spell, but negates/alters the effects?

4. What Epic Seed would be used to negate somethings existence; i.e., make it so it never existed?

[Tshern]

I apologise, but I must reply either tomorrow or on Sunday. Being fiendishly busy with yet another essay and I'll be heading to Dublin on Thursday, so won't be having online access for a few days.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

More appropriately, how's this for an ability

When the Rules werefirst spoken, you didn't quite hear them correctly.

You may interact any rulestext as if it were plausibly misheard - but you have to be consistent.  If your opponents can't hurt you wwith his spill casting, well, you'll be overturning some ninth level glasses of ale yourself.

[Amechra]

Another question:

Is it possible to make an Epic Spell that causes any effects to treat you as if you were a specific being? In this case, Dispater? Because if so, hello Iron Tower working in my favor...

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Arguably Mask of the Misplaced Aura can already do that.

[Amechra]

Interesting...

Where can I find Mask of the Misplaced Aura?

Oh, and can I use Innate Spell with Epic Spells?

[Tshern]

Oh, and can I use Innate Spell with Epic Spells?

Epic spells still have a slot above the level nine, so yes. Just give me the spell and we'll see.

[Amechra]

Well, this isn't the spell, but I was just wondering if this would be too powerful...

Esoterica Barracade
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 748
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 100 Days
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
To Develop: 6,732,000 gp, 135 days, 269280 xp, Ward Seed DC 14, Factors: blocks spells of all levels (+180), Permanent (x5). Mitigating factors: Casting time increase (10 minutes: -20 DC, 100 days: -200), change to personal (-2).

This spell causes the caster to forevermore be exempt from the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that duplicate spells of up to 10th level. The caster is automatically exempt from the area of effect of any spell cast at him, and any targetted effects automatically fail. This barracade can be destroyed by an epic feat with either the dispel or destroy seed, but only if the caster succeeds at a caster level check.


The spell I want for Innate Spell (or at least one of them) is:

Eviscerate Dweomer
Abjuration
Spellcraft DC: 125
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Area: 100-ft.-radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: None
To Develop: 1,125,000 gp, 23 days, 45,000 xp, Dispel Seed DC 19. Change from target to an area (20-ft.-radius) (+10), Increase Area by 400% (+16), +80 to the Dispel Check (+80)

This spell, when cast, dispels all spells within the radius as if their duration had ended, including spells that normally cannot be dispelled. It also ends the ongoing effects of a supernatural ability, and it effects spell-like abilities as if they were spells.
The caster makes a dispel check of 1d20+90 against each creature, spell and item within the radius, with the DC being for each effect 11+target spell's caster level.
Any items affected by this spell do not permanently lose their magical properties; instead the magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, during which time the item is not magical.
If there is an interdimensional interface (for example, a portal) within the radius of the effect, it becomes closed for 1d4 rounds.
This spell can affect any type of magic, even that of gods and artifact-level magical items.
The caster may elect to be exempt from this effect.

I hope that's not too crazy...

[Tshern]

Must've been in some weird condition when I allowed epic spells to be made into Innate spells. I believe I made a rule that you can use slots ABOVE level nine (that is, epic level spells, not epic spells), but disallowed epic spells. If I only could find that ruling. Sigh.

[Amechra]

So I'm not allowed?

Do you have a list of all the bannings you've made? I was planning to take Dweomerkeeper, but was then told that it was banned.

Another question: If I'm allowed to use Esoterica Barricade, how much would I have to increase the DC to allow my spells and SLAs to be cast on myself?

[bearsarebrown]

@Tshern
What level of TO is tolerated for the challenge? Abusing Font of Power? Personal superspeed Demiplanes?

[Daniel678]

@Amechra
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872858/The_Iron_Siege?post_id=338484494#338484494 is a nice FAQ about the Iron Seige with lots of useful information. If you can't find a ruling in there then you might want to try searching the following two threads. There are some other resources that I can list if you want but these should have the answers to most of your questions.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872858/The_Iron_Siege
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19525830/The_Iron_Siege

If you want epic spells as spell-like abilities you can get them up to 6 times/day with archmage.

@bearsarebrown TO is not allowed but there is a very high level of power since it's a level 60 epic game and many things which would be TO in other games are not in this. Font of Power is allowed. As for demiplanes "I mean it is totally possible for me to change the game to work like that. If someone starts bringing in time manipulation with their own demiplanes and seriously insists that I should allow such stupidity, he can be sure I will answer in kind. That's why I simply disallow it." -Tshern

[bearsarebrown]

More rules confusion:

18DR total. Dieties can have up to 70HD. Dragons can have 100HD? Is that if my character is a dragon? Or can I have an 18DR Diety riding a 100HD dragon?