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Surreal
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« on: February 04, 2009, 02:04:27 PM » |
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One of the things I dislike most about polymorph and its kin (aside from the fact that it's huge amounts of bookkeeping and skews game balance) is trying to keep track of what changes and what doesn't. So I procrastinated from work this morning and whipped up a chart comparing alter self/polymorph/shape change/alternate form/change shape/wild shape. Tables below, pdf and spreadsheet files at the end. Enjoy.    p.s. let me know if there are any mistakes |
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« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 12:51:23 PM by Surreal »
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--- "The late, sedate, and no to great." ~SurrealSome Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc. Archived version of the above with working linksThe Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities Alternative Class Featuresalternative ways to get class skills |
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Surreal
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 02:04:47 PM » |
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These are the same images as above. I just uploaded them to the second post, that's all.
#1: Alter Self/Polymorph/Shapechange
#2: Change Shape/Alter Self/Wild Shape
#3: Metamorphosis/Metamorphosis (for objects)/Greater Metamorphosis
edit: I've deleted the spreadsheet attachments; they were all corrupted for some reason.
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« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 12:52:36 PM by Surreal »
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--- "The late, sedate, and no to great." ~SurrealSome Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc. Archived version of the above with working linksThe Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities Alternative Class Featuresalternative ways to get class skills |
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awaken DM golem
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 05:25:16 PM » |
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Sweet.
My impression of Metamophosis is that it's similar enough to Polymorph, to ignore any attempt at translation.
But I might be wrong on tinsy specifics.
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woodenbandman
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 09:00:37 PM » |
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it's called Natural Spell you twit!
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Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 09:18:54 PM » |
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Metamorphosis does do several things differently than polymorph, although it does give you most of the same benefits.
A.) It affects even undead or construct creatures (ie, nonliving ones). Polymorph only affects living critters. However, it can only affect you, feats, items, and special abilities notwithstanding.
B.) You can turn into an object.
C.) It doesn't affect your ability to manifest/cast unless you're in object form. Polymorph sometimes makes casting almost impossible.
D.) Due to the wording of alter self and how it's referenced in polymorph, you cannot take a form greater than one size larger or smaller than your own. Metamorphosis has no such restrictions.
E.) Polymorph allows ectoplasmic forms. This means that, unlike metamorphosis, you can, ironically, polymorph into [living] astral construct forms (assuming you're a living construct, anyway).
F.) And I believe that's it.
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 09:23:24 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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Surreal
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 11:53:43 PM » |
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Updated the files with metamorphosis and gr.metamorphosis, and fixed a couple errors. I also put up an excel version.
Can anyone tell me an easy way to format these so they can be posted directly to the board? I tried attaching images to the second post, but it didn't work the way I wanted to (bleh, I suppose I could upload to imageshack or something...)
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--- "The late, sedate, and no to great." ~SurrealSome Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc. Archived version of the above with working linksThe Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities Alternative Class Featuresalternative ways to get class skills |
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Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 02:00:04 PM » |
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Oh, and metamorphosis remains unaffected by polymorph errata. Which means your hp do change when your Con score does, among other things.
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Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 02:12:09 PM » |
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Also, greater metamorphosis doesn't require a focus or component (except for XP).
Question: you gain type and subtypes for many of the abilities mentioned, but most of them don't grant Ex qualities that aren't attacks.
So, do you gain the special qualities granted by the type and subtype? Such as the ability to breathe water for [aquatic] critters, or fire vulnerability for [cold] critters? Otherwise, there's no point whatsoever.
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« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 02:14:11 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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CannibalSmith
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 08:45:16 AM » |
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Updated the files with metamorphosis and gr.metamorphosis, and fixed a couple errors. I also put up an excel version.
Can anyone tell me an easy way to format these so they can be posted directly to the board? I tried attaching images to the second post, but it didn't work the way I wanted to (bleh, I suppose I could upload to imageshack or something...)
[img]http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3479.0;attach=725;image[/img] turns into  |
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awaken DM golem
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 03:37:08 PM » |
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My impression of Metamophosis is that it's similar enough to Polymorph, to ignore any attempt at translation.
But I might be wrong on tinsy specifics.
Oops.  YOU DAMN DIRTY (polymorphed) APE !! |
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Surreal
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 04:56:17 PM » |
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Made a few updates, fixed up the first page with images. Ding!
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--- "The late, sedate, and no to great." ~SurrealSome Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc. Archived version of the above with working linksThe Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities Alternative Class Featuresalternative ways to get class skills |
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 04:21:47 PM » |
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Surreal, what about Polymorph any object? Could you elaborate a table for that too?
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Surreal
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 05:29:04 PM » |
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I kind of figured PaO was in a class of its own. I'm not really sure how I can fit it into a table. If you're going creature to creature, then you just replace your original creature stat block except you retain your original wisdom and charisma.
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--- "The late, sedate, and no to great." ~SurrealSome Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc. Archived version of the above with working linksThe Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities Alternative Class Featuresalternative ways to get class skills |
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Operation Shoestring
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 02:39:45 PM » |
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Do your Soulmelds remain functional during wildshape/polymorph/shapechange?
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Surreal
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 02:50:57 PM » |
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They should, unless you no longer have that particular body part to which they were assigned/bound.
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--- "The late, sedate, and no to great." ~SurrealSome Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc. Archived version of the above with working linksThe Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities Alternative Class Featuresalternative ways to get class skills |
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Brainpiercing
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 03:37:25 PM » |
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There's yet MORE trouble with transmutation effects I came across yesterday: It's the "Humanoid Shape" invocation of the DFA.
Why is it trouble? Because it's not like Alter Self, it's like the Change Shape supernatural ability. And that doesn't specify class features at all. So what does that do, really?
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Surreal
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2009, 05:08:58 PM » |
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You only lose the special Ex attacks of your original form. You should retain all class features.
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--- "The late, sedate, and no to great." ~SurrealSome Handy Links for CO Work (WotC 339 version) - a compilation of links for base/prestige class handbooks, tactics, spellcasting, character builds, D&D databases, etc. Archived version of the above with working linksThe Mango Index - a giant index for all things D&D and where to find them The Mango List Reborn! - rehosted by KellKheraptis Lists of Stuff - listing of class features etc and how to get them, etc. sort of like above but a little more specific and sorted by category Polymorph, Wildshape and Shapechange, oh my! (comparison charts) - side-by-side comparison of all the various form altering abilities Alternative Class Featuresalternative ways to get class skills |
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Brainpiercing
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« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2009, 05:49:05 PM » |
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You only lose the special Ex attacks of your original form. You should retain all class features.
That's the way I understood it, but what about Breath weapons? It explicitly says you lose Breathweapons. I also take that to mean those from my original form, and not those from class features, but is there any explicit or implicit rule about that? |
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2009, 05:59:33 PM » |
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D.) Due to the wording of alter self and how it's referenced in polymorph, you cannot take a form greater than one size larger or smaller than your own. Metamorphosis has no such restrictions.
That's pretty debatable, actually. I think the restrictions might be lifted, per the way Polymorph is worded, and that's the interpretation that has been taken in the two Polymorph threads, also. You can’t cause a subject to assume a form smaller than Fine, nor can you cause a subject to assume an incorporeal or gaseous form. The underlined part is a size restriction. It could be argued that that replaces the size restrictions from Alter Self, although technically you could enforce both, I guess. It's also nonsensical, as there is no size smaller than Fine in D&D... |
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« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 06:03:00 PM by PhaedrusXY »
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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Operation Shoestring
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2009, 07:16:07 PM » |
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It's also nonsensical, as there is no size smaller than Fine in D&D...
It's to prevent "i turn into an e coli bacterium" nonsense. Believe me, people would try it otherwise. |
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