Druid Preview

[SorO_Lost]

Comments? Insights?

Flame Seed is almost too good. Basically it's a 1st level at-will power that turns a square into miniature hell to shove people into for bonus damage. It's like the wall trick posted in the optimization area, only 9 levels sooner and deals a bit less. It's kinda odd they have 8 at will powers to choose from when no one will be using anything but flame seed...

I'm confused on how Wild Shape works though. On one hand Wild Shape has no effect on your game statistics, on the other you have turning into a bear to disguise your self is a change in game statistics since you could not normally make such a check. Does that mean Durids carry a glowing neon sign that screams "I'm a druid" or not?

[Straw_Man]

  Could you link to it Soro?

[X-Codes]

I don't believe a plain link will help, since you must be a subscriber to see playtest reports now.  If you don't want to subscribe, look for torrents once the whole issue comes out.

[CoarsestGrate]

Wow.  If I had known they posted it as viewable by non-subscribers by mistake, I would've saved it.  But, it's too late now.  Sadly, though, the only thing that caught my eye that I still remember is that Druids can (currently) use a staff as an implement.  That, and Wild Shape is now a toggle mode that you have to turn on in order to gain access to some powers (while losing access to others), but other than that does nothing in terms of gameplay.

But seriously, if they're gonna keep making mistakes like this with making subscriber content viewable by the public, even for an hour, it's gonna defeat the purpose of subscriptions altogether.

[highbulp]

Or, um, Cloud of Daggers (the Wizard 1 at-will?)

This compares to that only a bit favorably IMO. It deals less damage on a hit (no ability mod), and requires a hit to create the zone. Cloud of Daggers automatically creates the zone (hit or miss), though moving through it likely does a bit less damage (secondary rather than primary stat). Of course Flame Seed makes a much larger area. Doesn't seem too messed up to me. Also, deals fire instead of Force damage, which is more common to resist.

Oh wait, this only affects enemies. That makes it really awesome. Huh.

[sombrastewart]

The load of at-wills was that, first of all, one of them had to have a Beast keyword, which could only be used when wildshaped, so you basically have one or two at-wills in human form and one or two at-wills in beast form.  The beast stuff is striker in nature, the human form is controller in nature.  There were the two options for wildshaping, one adding Con to AC or something and the other added to speed.

Myself, I'd take the speed option and play the guy as a controller and wildshape to run if things went down the drain, but that's just me.

[Eepop]

For the record, as someone that is overwhelming positive to 4E. 

I'm fricking pissed.  They billed it as a playtest, then they give 3 (originally only 2) levels to us, with several wording issues, and they even screw up the viewable only by subscriber stuff.  Then they go back and retcon their editorial calendar to act like it was only ever going to be a preview.

The only reason they can give for at least not giving the 10 levels that Bard had was that the books may already be out to the printers.  If thats the case, then they should have been sure that their wording worked...you know, like making it clear how at wills for human druids are handled.

The design of it seems fine, but the Editing and Customer Service are getting on my nerves.  They act like this is friggin hard or something!  They did awesome with barbarian, and pretty good with bard.  But the handling of the druid is just a slap in the face.  If this is the amount of info they wanted to give us, they should have just made an article with:

For all the classes in the PHB2:
1) Name
2) Role
3) Primary, Secondary/Tertiary Stats
4) One line of teaser.

Druid
Controller
Wis, Con or Dex
Text for wildshape power, with the wording of how powers are effected.

That would give us pretty much the same information we got from the current article, but we'd at least have the information on the other classes to appease us.

If you want to give a playtest, say so, and actually give us a playtest with enough information to do so.
If you want to give a preview, say so, and give us a preview for several things.

You have to have depth or breadth...this article really has neither.

[SorO_Lost]

Or, um, Cloud of Daggers (the Wizard 1 at-will?)

I compared those two and made up my mind Flame Seed is better.

First off Flame Seed is completely based on wisdom where as Cloud of Daggers uses a wizard's 2nd to 3rd highest stat. The balance factor here is Cloud of Daggers deals more when it hits. Which is not what I'm paying attention to.

Secondly, Flame Seed's area is at least three times that of Cloud of Daggers and push/pull related powers are a lot more common than slide. This allows for a better chance for another party member to take advantage of the zone. Then of course, the monster size effects the size of Flame Seed, so you could triple the amount with huge creatures while still using push/pull.

Thirdly, the party is immune to the zone effect. This opens up yet another way to use this effect. Swapping places requires the user to travel though the same squares. Given that you are immune to the zone this isn't a problem. Another aspect is directly related to the size. You can fit up to nine creatures in FS where as you can fit one in CoD. Instead of moving things in and out, just know a whole bunch in. The total amount FS deals will still be several times more than CoD in this aspect as well.

In short, flame seed deals more damage & can be taken advantage of easier by other classes. Fire resistance is a concern but I don't know enough about 4E to really gage that.

[anomalousman]

I'm wondering why the druid is a controller with striker/leader hit points.  Did they just decide that controllers had too few hit points?  At least when they made the barbarian it was both explicit, and balanced against the fact that barbarians leave themselves very open to damage.

[PhoenixInferno]

Druids are expected to mix it up once in a while by forcing them to take a Beast Form at-will.

[Ieniemienie]

Is there actually a reason to go into melee as Druid?

And am I the only one who thinks the Druid is not good at either of the two roles; controller and striker?

[X-Codes]

Is there actually a reason to go into melee as Druid?

And am I the only one who thinks the Druid is not good at either of the two roles; controller and striker?

It's kinda hard to judge how good a class is by the power of it's first three levels.  Even Wizards aren't spectacular controllers until ~15th level.

[anomalousman]

Druids are expected to mix it up once in a while by forcing them to take a Beast Form at-will.

And wizards occasionally get mobbed.  It's not that there isn't an obvious need for more hit points, it's that I can't see the balance.  Of course, that could be more about my sight than the balance.

[highbulp]

It feels like the Druid is a Controller who shapeshifts into a Striker. Maybe that's the justification? So I can see the reason, though that doesn't mean it's balanced.

[Banor]

Actually it seem that the Druid can be a Melee controller via Wild Shape. Push/Slide from melee range can be deadly with a good wizard.