Purge with holy flame

[ChristopherGroves]

I'm trying to cap off a build, and really not sure where to take it.  Any 3.5 book is open, you can see where I'm headed. 

The core is pretty simple ...

1 Evoker 1 - spell focus (evocation), some metamagic feat
2 Evoker 2
3 Evoker 3 - fiery burst (+ CL for fire)
4 Master Specialist 1
5 Master Specialist 2
6 Paragnostic Disciple 1 (energy supremacy fire +CL) - energy substitution (fire)
7 Sanctified One 1 (Kord - holy fire)


I can swap out wizard for warmage or sorcerer ... and if so probably drop Elemental Adept 1 in there somewhere so that everything turns into fire (elemental adept) and then to divine thanks to sanctified one.  Holy Scourge loses a caster level but +1 per die to everyone in the area could be nifty.  War Mage (DL - Age of Heroes) gives some metamagic and bonus per-die damage.

I can load up on DC-increasing abilities (draconic auras, more focus, etc.) but a good reflex save and evasion will still nerf the offense.  Throwing out rays isn't the answer either because the dudes with evasion probably also have wicked touch ACs. 

Metamagic ... twin, repeat, sclupt, enlarge, empower, etc.



So ....

Question 1:  Evoker or Sorcerer or something else?  Wizard gives me more versatility, focused specialist gives me spells.  My gut says Evoker, but I'd like feedback.  Warmage has a different kind of flexibility but lacking in utility (clearly).

Question 2:  Spell options ... anyone know non-reflex-save or non-ranged-touch good damage dealing spell?  Sonic spells are generally fort, blistering radiance ... etc.

Question 3:  Thoughts on Holy Scourge / War Mage. 

Question 4:  Assuming Evoker, counterfire (phb2) or UA Energy Affinity (+1 CL) instead of familiar?

[Callix]

Focused Evoker looks like the sort of thing you want. Lots of fire spells, but the ability to tailor your utility spells to what you need.

Energy Affinity (Fire) is pretty darn good. You might also consider Energy Substitution (Fire) to get more use out of it, and Searing Spell to get around fire resist/immune.

Avoid Warmage if you can. That spell list is just too narrow, even with Expanded Learning.

[fliprushman]

Don't forget Bloodline of Fire from the Players guide to Faerun.

If you weren't aware of this combo: Precocious Apprentice(pg 181 of CArc) + Fiery Burst

I'm an evoker that can cast fire spells all day long.

This can be applied to any Reserve feat that has a 2nd level spell prereq but for an evoker, fiery is the best.

[Prime32]

AFB, but isn't there a feat in a FR book which lets you "follow the air or fire traditions" to receive +1 CL and increase the damage cap by one die?

[BowenSilverclaw]

Take that level of Elemental Savant to convert everything to fire damage (and then holy), boost your CL for Evocation and Fire spells as much as possible, pick up Arcane Thesis and use Boccob's Rolling Cloud if Dragon Magazine is allowed (can be found on Crystalkeep as well )

Uncapped damage is sexy as hell

[carnivore]

AFB, but isn't there a feat in a FR book which lets you "follow the air or fire traditions" to receive +1 CL and increase the damage cap by one die?

Calisham Elementalist

 

[ChristopherGroves]

Fiery Burst is already in the build - game starts at 3rd so I don't need to burn a feat on PA to early-get it.  Energy Sub is also already in the mix.  My formatting looks difficult to read.

If I go spontaneous caster, Elemental Adept 1 is a definite go, but as a prepared caster where is the value?  I mean, I just prepare the spells using Energy Sub, right? 

I'm not sure if Dragon Mag is in, if so I'll take a look at that stuff.  For sure all 3.5 books are in.

Calisham Elementalist and Bloodline of Fire are the kinds of things I was really hoping to see ... I can find Bloodline of Fire, but the other I can't seem to locate.  Feat Index says it's in Races of FR, but I don't have that book.



For those who weren't following, here's how the trick works.  It's basically less abusive than the RKV Nova a few of us were throwing around on 339.

It has energy sub (fire), so all things become fire (that's the 6th level feat).
It has sanctified one of kord, so all things fire become divine.
It has feats and such that boost CL, DC, etc. of fire.
It's a specialist wizard (likely banning necromancy, enchantment and either illusion or abjuration haven't decided on the last one yet - both are defensive) but has the utility options of the other schools (transmutation, conjuration, divination)

Here's the build now:

Flaw                                          Eschew Materials
Flaw                                          Combat Casting
Human                                       Bloodline of Fire (+2 CL fire, +4 to my saves v fire)
1   Evoker 1         Weapon Focus (ray), Counterfire, Focused Specialist   Spell Focus (Evocation)
2   Evoker 2      
3   Evoker 3                                    Fiery Burst (+1 CL fire)
4   Master Specialist 1   focus (spellcraft)   
5   Master Specialist 2   Expanded Spellbook   
6   Sanctified One 1      Holy Fire (fire spells do divine damage)         Fell Weaken (need a metamagic feat as pre-req to energy sub)
7   Paragnostic Disciple 1   Energy supremacy (CL +1 fire)   
8   War Mage 1         aegis (1 ally), +1/die   
9   War Mage 2         bonus metamagic (empower), ASF 5%         Energy Sub (fire)
10   War Mage 3         aegis (2 ally), +2/die   
11   War Mage 4         bonus metamagic (widen), ASF 10%   
12   War Mage 5         aegis (3 ally), +3/die                  Metamagic School Focus (evocation)
13   Holy Scourge 1      righteous evocation +1/spell level, +1 CL good spells   
14   Holy Scourge 2      arcane smite 1/day   
15   Holy Scourge 3      devoted arcanist (+class to CL for spell penatration)   Sculpt Spell or Extraordinary Spell Aim or Draconic Aura (fire DC boost)
16   Holy Scourge 4      arcane smite 2/day   
17   Holy Scourge 5      righteous evocation +2/extra damage   

Then probably cap with some combination like this:
         
Master Specialist 3      greater spell focus (evocation)            Practiced Spellcaster?  Spell Penetration?  Arcane Thesis?  More Metamagic Spell Focus?  Metamagic Vigor?
Paragnostic Disciple 2      Penetrating Insight (+1 CL on SR)
Paragnostic Disciple 3      Accurate Retort (+1 on rays vs things with NA)

Some sort of free metamagic would be good too. 

I kinda expect the game to cap in the high-teens, so I'm not to hung up on those last levels.  If it does, Practiced Spellcaster looks fun.

Silverbrow would let me up the DC.

At 3rd level the CL of fire spells is 6 thanks to my +3 fire CL boost.
At 6th level fire spells are now doing divine damage.  Fireball is cast at 8th (I lose a CL but my fire boost is now +4) level so that is 8d6 divine with a DC boost from spell focus.  Can do fell-weaken too, so that's fun.
At 9th level CL of fire spells is 12 I think ... and all energy spells can be prepped as fire spells.  They also do an extra point of damage per die thanks to War Mage.
At 12th level the CL is 15 for fire (and really, all energy spells since they are all fire now).  They do 3 extra points of damage per die thanks to War Mage and I've got some metamagic hijinks that are really developing nicely.  Oh and I can wear armor without ASF.  Bonus.
At 15th level we drop another CL, so CL is only 17 for fire.  I'm only on 7th level spells (boo!) but at this point they do +1/spell level to everyone in the area and +3/die and my basic CL for spell penetration is ... 20-ish.
At 18th the CL base is 20 for damage, area, etc. ... 25 for SR.  All spells are doing +2/spell level extra damage in the area and +3/die ... and it's all divine. 

For the spellbook I'd have a generalist mix in just in case.  For damaging spells (because this is dude is a cannon) I'd stick to big and flashy elemental spells, but pick and choose a combination of rays, orbs, reflex-attacking (most AoEs), fort-attacking (sonic, some cold, etc.) for versatility. 

[skydragonknight]

Don't forget Bloodline of Fire from the Players guide to Faerun.

+2 caster level to fire spells. Note that taking advantage of this doesn't always mean adding dice to damage to damage spells. You already have energy substitution(fire), which doesn't just work for damage spells. It converts any spell with an elemental descriptor into a spell of the fire descriptor and changes the damage it does, if any.

I almost suggested snowcasting here, but it doesn't add the descriptor until you actually cast the spell and you're a prepared caster so you couldn't add energy sub afterward. To make matters worse it takes a move action to use the snow, so that idea falls apart. Snowcasting is a much worse feat than advertised

Even so, there's got to be some nice non-damaging spells with an elemental descriptor that could benefit from this...a pity Holy Word and it's like isn't on your spell list. It has the sonic descriptor.
*blinks* Sonic Flames...

[ChristopherGroves]

Yeah, Snowcasting is a different route entirely.  If I were going to do snowcasting, it would look differently.

There are a few basic kinds of attack mages I see these days ... that dramatically change the nature of their spells to achieve higher benefit

Snowcasters (who are often also uttercold and tomb tainted souls)
Three-thunders ... who use Mark of the Dauntless or similar to ignore dazing
Fire dudes ... who (should) gravitate to holy fire ... before they were searing
Force mages

Then there are spell specialists ... elven spell lore, arcane thesis, etc. (envervation, disintegtrate)

I have three-thunders and snow casting builds, just working on a good fire one ...

[Sunic_Flames]

Uncapped damage? Does Wings of Flurry and Maw of Chaos work with this?

[ChristopherGroves]

Wings of Flurry is Sorc only and [force] ... you can't energy sub that typically and Maw of Chaos is abjuration.

You could Snow-cast them both, but that's too much to then try to re-work into fire and holy fire.


A force option would start with sorcerer, then War Mage and exploiting wings of flurry, etc.  Since those are CL-un-capped I'd probably focus more on Argent Savant.  There are also some nice Dragonmark-related force spells. 

[ChristopherGroves]

Alright, so ... classess ...

I am leaning towards Master Specialist +1 (greater spell focus) and then Wizard +2 taking Spontaneous Divination at 20.  I don't think the game will go that high, but spontaneous divination is just that good.  I could also throw in more Paragnostic Disciple, but I think I like the other options better.


Feats ... got two to assign. 

• Practiced Spellcaster (+2 CL ... not sure it is needed)
• Draconic Aura (energy - fire) ... would give a DC boost of +4 assuming character was dragonblood (silverbrow human)
• Spell Penetration ... always handy
• Arcane Thesis ... the focus is on fire, not on one spell so I think this and elven spell lore are kinda out ...
• Metamagic Spell Focus (something else?) ... I don't see me casting other kinds of spells, so pass
• Metamagic Vigor ... CL boost pretty constantly since all spells are affected by energy-sub
• Residual Metamagic ... hmm ... free metamagic on repeated spells
• Extraodinary Spell Aim or Sculpt Spell ... because sometimes you might want to not kill someone

I think Extraordinary Spell Aim might be a must.  Not sure on the other.

[Omen of Peace]

Get Residual Magic (CM) for free metamagic.

edit: ninja'ed and yet not.

[ChristopherGroves]

Residual is nice.  I think I'm torn between that and the Draconic Aura for DC boosting, but leaning towards Residual.

[skydragonknight]

With the CL you're looking at, picking up Fire Seeds might not be a bad option either if you can grab it somehow.(Arcane Disciple?, Wyrm Wizard?)
Holly Holy Berry Bombs, anyone?

Just another option to put out. I'm personally biased towards huge explosions.

[CantripN]

I find the Silver Pyromancer (Five Nations) a more interesting way to do this. Not only does it allow you to Empower Fire Spells a couple of time a day for free, but it adds the entire Paladin spell list to yours, which not only adds several high-power spells, but also lessens the cost of being a Focused Specialist by a lot (Resist Energy, Protection from Energy and Dispel Magic are all back!). Oh, and did I mention that all those Paladin spells are Auto-Quickened? 

Silverbrow Human Evoker 5 / Silver Pyromancer 5 / Master Specialist 3 / Paragonistic Apostle 1 / Archmage 5 / Paragonistic Apostle +1

Feats:
F - Spell Focus (Evocation)
F - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
H - Bloodline of Fire
1 - Energy Substitution (Fire)
1B - Scribe Scroll
3 - Draconic Aura: Energy (Fire)
5B - Domain Granted Power: Sun (UA Druid)
6 - Battle Blessing
9 - Residual Magic
11B - Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
12 - Energy Admixture (Fire)
13B - G. Spell Focus (Evocation)
15 - Energy Gestalt
18 - Maximise Spell-like Ability (Fire Admixtured Streamers)

ACF:
Energy Affinity (Fire)

Knowledge Is Power:
Energy Supremacy (Fire)
Manifest Ethos (Good)

[carnivore]

CantripN , doesnt Silver Pyromancer require the ability to Turn Undead .... you will need to get a level of Sacred Exorcist in there, just sub out one of the Archmage levels

 

[Omen of Peace]

I think he's using a variant of variant to get TU with Domain Power : Sun Domain chained with the UA Domain Druid's Sun Domain.

[skydragonknight]

If the problem is Evasion, remember that you're not a blaster in a vacuum. Combust spell(SpC) with Spell Storing weapons for allies is a great way to spend lower level spell slots.

[CantripN]

I think he's using a variant of variant to get TU with Domain Power : Sun Domain chained with the UA Domain Druid's Sun Domain.

Rather observant of you, grasshopper. You will go far in the ways of Optimization.