Tema69's Realism/"Action Movie Grittiness" Ruleset (now in .pdf) & WW2 Stats

[Tema69]

Hi guys. I've been asked for my WW2 & Realism Rules on the WotC boards, and receiving positive feedback I thought I'd post them here too, in case any of you guys are interested.

The ZipFile contains several word docs because I haven't made them into a nifty .pdf yet. I might do that sometime.

Tema's Realism & WW2 Ruleset

• Combat Rules

Parry, Unarmed Combat, Double Tap, Autofire, Burst Fire, Suppressive Fire, Crossfire, Overpenetration, Firing Larger Weapons, Weapon Groups, Range Penalties

• Weapon & Equipment Rules

CyberDave's Recoil Rules, Shotguns, Bolt Action Rifles, Adding Multiple Weapons, Weapon Customization, Grenades (Returning them/throwing oneself on them), Gasmask, Nightvision

• Misc Rules

Prone/Kneeling, Weapons vs. Stuff, Holding your Breath, Catching falling Characters, Shooting Thick Stuff

• Wounds/Vitality System

Avoiding the "don't worry, I still have x HP/Vitality left, I'll charge that bunker" -situations

• Feats & Skills

New & Modified Feats, Consolidated Skill List inspired by CyberDave

• Character Classes

Changes to the character classes - new talents, changed defense bonus for the Fast Hero, added feats to the bonus feat lists

• Melee Weapons

All kinds of melee weapons statted out for the system

• Personal Weapons

All kinds of WW2 ranged Weapons - a few fictional ones too, a really extensive list of ammunition and grenades.

• Personal Armour

Examples of body armour used in our 1951 Alternate History campaign

• Vehicles

List of WW2 vehicles - still needs some work

• Vehicle Weapons

Extensive list and rules for the big gunz - originally written along with Backstabbist

• Firearms Fumble Table

The same one that's floating around here somewhere

• Customized d20 RealismRuleset System Character Sheet

Modified the wellknown d20 CharacterSheet to fit the various extra rules

• Also includes:

d20 Mecha SRD (which I've used to create weapons, armour and vehicles), List of Additional Qualities & Restrictions for d20 Mecha SRD (board-made list of additional stuff to set weapons apart), Creating Personal Armour with the d20 Mecha SRD (homemade additional rules so the d20 Mecha SRD can be used to create regular armour), Blood & Guts: Military Training Manual, Blood & Guts: Combat Procedures

Clicky clicky--> http://www.megaupload.com/dk/?d=Q0DCCBZ5

Comments & critique is VERY welcome.

Cheers,
Thomas E. Vestergaard
aka.
Tema69



Edit: Expensive=Extensive^^ 

Edit: I've compiled all the Action Movie Grittiness rules into a nifty PDF for you to enjoy. The zipfile contains "Tema69s Action Movie Grittiness Rules", "Additional Qualities and Restrictions for d20 Mecha SRD", "Creating Personal Armour with d20 Mecha SRD" and "d20 Mecha SRD".
It's available for download here: http://www.megaupload.com/dk/?d=1GHP0M9E
Note that the WW2 supplement will be made into a PDF later, and is therefore not included here.

[Elennsar]

Downloading as I type this. Looking forwarding to reading, Tema.

[Hinthas]

Look forward to reading 'em, Tom.

Thanks,
Doug

[Tema69]

Thank you guys. You're great!

...what enthousiasm! 

[Herbert West]

Ooooo! Looking good tema!

[Tema69]

Thank you!


This means a lot to me guys. Especially because I'm not english-speaking (it's not a mothertongue, that is), and I've never done anything like this before.
So it means a lot if you're able to understand what I'm writing, and if the rules are clearly described and all.

...and of course, if the rules mean anything to you, or if they seem a waste of time to include.

[Orion]

Downloading now...

I wonder if you could define what you mean by "realism" in this case? "Realism," in RPGs and other action/adventure entertainment, usually seems to mean "increased levels of violence and death, with a side order of obsessive details about weapons of war." I'm not saying those are bad, but I am curious what you mean when you call your rules "realistic."

[Tema69]

Well, I can certainly relate to your description of "RPG Realism". And I'm sure you might think that my stuff is just that.
But to be honest, I'm the only weapon nut in our gaming group, but they still managed to understand recoil, penetration, etc... very fast, and even though some of them are a bit young it has become very natural for them. I don't think my rules bog down combat too much, and they add a level of variety and customization that I think can be either completely irrelevant or pretty important, depending on the campaign and the players.

By realism, I mostly mean that if you get shot with a gun, you're almost always in trouble. Not in the "oh-my-god-I'm-gonna-die" way, or at least not necessarily, but it can degenerate really fast. We're playing around level 11-12, and whereas skill checks are almost not an issue for the ones they have specialized in (around +18-20 for the specializations), combat can be a b!tch, and I've just killed 3 off my players very quickly.

All in all, I think my rules (which aren't mine all of 'em, I've grabbed stuff from Blood & Guts, CyberDave, SAGA, and old thread on the WotC boards that died off, etc...) provide a twist that allows more freedom - as the d20 System should - as well as giving rules for situations such as crossfire, weapon jams, and overpenetration.

Last of all, these rules were written after seeing countless action movies, war movies, etc... so their main focus is actually more a dramatic realism than actual realism - think James Bond movies: if you get shot you're dead, although you can still pull of some incredible stunts and whatnot.


I'm looking forward for some criticism from you when you've looked it through.

[Orion]

Thanks! I think I see what you're going for. Gritty action movie sounds like it could be a lot of fun. I'll jump back in once I've had a chance to look at some of the material.

BTW, you can make a PDF pretty easily with Open Office. There's a PDF button. It makes a (nearly) exact copy of the file you're looking at. Open Office just generally rocks.

[Tema69]

Gritty Action Movie, eh... Perhaps I should call 'em that instead of Realistic...
But yes, it is a lot of fun, one of my players (the only one alive ATM - running solo) just parachuted onto a nazi zep, but when his teammate NPC who is the only one able to fly the thing back to base fell off without his reserve chute, the PC just thought what-the-heck and jumped out after him, caught him, and released his own reserve chute. After some aerial negotiations with a news plane that was filming them, he managed to land on the tiny plane, and convinced them to fly them over the Zep at very low speed and as close as possible. He and the NPC jumped from the plane down on the Zep, and from there on continued with the mission (where he started getting his a*s kicked as soon as combat erupted). So yea, heroic grittiness ftw.


Open Office. Got it. Downloading.

[Elennsar]

Interesting term, that.

So you have "can do heroic things...but still a gritty and somewhat unforgiving world" as the definition?

Nice. I was wondering how to phrase what I've been sort of aiming for.

Because of a dozen other things, haven't read your rules yet, will do soon (TM).

[Tema69]

Yeah, pretty much. I guess James Bond (perhaps not so much the newer ones in terms of "grittiness") is a pretty good example of what I think these rules have become. You get shot, you're probably in trouble unless you're very tough (my solo PC above has 24 Wound Points, which makes him a VERY tough guy, but he has been close to dying several times (mostly due to machineguns and high ROF [see details for additional rules for ROF in the "Additional Qualities & Restrictions for d20 Mecha SRD"]).

Well, I'm really glad you're (you as in all of you) gonna read this, and I can understand that there might be a lot of stuff to go through, so I don't expect full response immediately.

[Elennsar]

One thing I want to call attention to as an awesome modifier to the wound-and-vitality point system.

Anytime a character takes damage exceeding his or her Massive Damage Threshold, the amount of damage above it is taken as Wound Points. For example, if a character has a MDT of 18, and takes 22 points of damage, he/she takes 18 points of Vitality damage, and 4 points of Wound damage. The character’s MDT is thus also lowered accordingly.
The Fortitude save against Massive Damage is equal to the amount of damage received (if it exceeds your threshold). If you fail the save, you loose all your Wound Points and are dying (see Loss of Wound Points, below).

Bravo, Tema! Now, as someone who has a different take than you do on 'xactly how to handle injury, this system isn't how I'd do it. But it sounds like a wonderful idea.

Getting hit by a howitzer shell is a very painful experience, however badass you are, as it should be.

But a punch? Until you're run down and drooping from fatigue (the any WP damage = fatigue is something I'd suggest a change to, though I'm not precisely sure what), its not a big deal. Yes, it stings a little, but a Real Hero (someone with VP to begin with) can deal with little things like that.

Definately an idea to shower fu upon.

[Tema69]

Well thank you Elennsar, I'm really happy with it, and so are my players I think.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "But a punch..." part though.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that until taking Wound Points, combat is not a big deal. Well, it is, because all weapons deal 1 more die of damage, so even a 9mm can give above average people wound damage. So yea, getting minor damage isn't anything you're hero might really notice, but that's the point of being a hero, right? But as soon as you start bringing 9mm+ to the fight, you're gonna notice.
And what do you think is wrong with WP dam = Fatigue?

But thanks for the comment, Elennsar, I appreciate it.

[Elennsar]

Okay, if I punch one of your PCs (in the Dieselpunk thread), assuming I even hit (  ...I have a BAB of 0 and a Strength of 10.), its not serious. Vitality points cover the "well, it hit, but it didn't do anything worth worrying about". Also ignoring any other reasons it would be miserably useless (nonlethal damage only).

If I shot one, that could be bad. (assuming I hit). But a punch won't mean anything serious until VP are drained.

As for WP damage = fatigue...

I'd rather make it more "out of VP = fatigued." (for those with VP). Since "out of VP" seems to mean "too worn out to be able to keep rolling with the punches". Also, "fatigued" and "exhausted" are not how I'd like to handle fatigue, but that's another discussion.

[Tema69]

Punches don't apply to Vitality/Wounds? I don't use the Subdual Damage system, I use d20 Modern's Nonlehal Damage system with the change listed in the rules you have there.

And no, chances are you won't hit. I usually don't, even with the higher level NPCs. :/ ...Defense 21+ and all.

But out of VP almost = WP damage. At least when you're out of VP, you start taking WP. And chances are, the fight doesn't end exactly when you reach 0 VP. Also, you can still have VP and take WP damage. So by using WPdam=Fatigue, you get both, more or less.

How would you handle fatigue, then?

[Elennsar]

True. Still, I hope what I meant was clear. A minor hit (let's say a steak knife, which I may even be proficient with in D20 Modern...) is dealt with via vitality.

As for WP: The main thing is, if you take a critical hit, you take the damage just to WP, even if you have full VP, right?

So you get fatigued, even if you have full VP. Doesn't feel right.

And I'm not sure, if/when I get an idea I'll pass it on. I just know it doesn't feel right.

[Tema69]

Indeed, minor damage is normally dealt with via Vitality.
Well, since Critical hits are rare enough already, I don't think that that's a problem. If you'd feel better about it, imagine that Crits also make the target fatigued. That's not to far fetched, is it?

[Elennsar]

Not at all. Still a "Not how I'd do it", but I can accept that explaination and hope some day to play under a GM using this form of wounds and vitality.

Comments on other rules will come, but I'm obsessive about finding good hit point systems, so naturally looking at yours (and posting what I thought was awesome and what I wasn't so sure about) came first.

But judging by your Dieselpunk thread, I imagine there's quite a lot of good ideas here.

I also imagiNe that I can spell in some alternate universe.

[Tema69]

Well thank you.

I'm writing on the .pdf thing right now, inspired by you guys' enthousiasm.

I'll wait until you've come with some more criticism, to see if I should change anything.

Isn't that what roleplaying is all about? You could roll up a character that can, that is.