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Author Topic: The Warlord (A complete Fighter overhaul)  (Read 8336 times)
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bkdubs123
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« on: October 24, 2008, 04:42:54 AM »

The Warlord
What the Core Fighter always dreamed to be (Credit to F&K's Races of War Fighter for some inspiration)


Cecil, the Dark Knight, performs a devastating Shellshock against his draconic foe.

If there's a trick to be performed with a weapon, you can guarantee that a Warlord not only knows it, he probably invented it. There are Warriors, there are Fighters, there are Elite Soldiers, and then are the Warlords that have trained them all. These are the combatants leading a unit, by example, in the middle of a monumental confrontation of armies. These Warlords, often of very precise and disciplined upbringing, have practiced their trade since the minute they could hold and swing a weapon. They mastered advanced tactics like disarming and tripping in their pre-teen years. They were inventing styles of their own before they were twenty years of age, and even as they grow gray they remain sharp as ever building techniques upon themselves, weaving them into a martial tapestry unlike anything the world has ever seen. It is very difficult to surprise a Warlord in combat, and even harder to still to catch him without a response to being surprised. Warriors of lesser talent have learned to be wary of anyone even so much as walking the way a Warlord walks to avoid being shown the sharp end of a thousand perfectly executed maneuvers.

Making a Warlord
You are a master of any weapon you choose to wield and you know how to unlock the maximum potential from any such instrument. You can be a clever and uncompromising melee tactician or a lightning quick and frustratingly elusive ranged combatant. You have the power to build your own destiny as a Warlord.

Abilities: The focus you should place on ability scores depends largely on the focus of your feats. Granted, you know a tremendous number of feats, and with knowing so many you can branch out quite well. Strength is useful to the melee focused, and dexterity to the ranged focus, but with the proper feats you can blur those lines. Constitution is of course always important for a warrior such as yourself and you may choose to place primary importance on it just to have the great survivability. Intelligence, wisdom, and charisma are not nearly as important for a Warlord as the first three, though intelligence can be nice to fill out your tactical skill list.

Alignment: Warlords can be of any alignment. Given their inclination toward a strict training regimen they might lean toward Law, but then there are many Warlords that choose to forge their own path and create their own styles of fighting. Chaotic Warlords care not for the troubles of kings or dukes, and will generally offer their tremendous skills to whoever has the most coin. Good Warlords are staunch defenders of justice and the innocent, where evil Warlords can be the most fearsome threat a country has ever faced.

Races: Races of all types make fine Warlords, but of course those more inclined to physical pursuits take the most naturally to the class. Dwarves and Half-Orcs make sturdy and powerful Warlords and often place the needs of society above their own interests. Elves and Halflings make agile and swift Warlords with a tendency for self-centeredness and caprice. Humans seem ever drawn into long and expensive wars, and in this respect they will always produce a large number of willful and tenacious Warlords.

Playing a Warlord
You live your life to master the most potent and the most intricate martial styles ever known by mankind. Nothing is more important to you than being, quite simply, the greatest weaponsmaster in history. Combat, to you, is a deadly dance, one that ebbs and flows. You use your Combat Focus to move with, rather than against, this current, and to make your foes fight on your terms. You seize opportunities, you take advantage of weaknesses, and you use your masterful warrior skills to stop any foe from ever finding the chinks in your armor - if there are any to find.

A Warlord adventures to continue to hone his combat techniques against worthy adversaries. The saying goes, "you can only get better by playing a smarter opponent." Warlords strive to find these opponents. No matter how good you think you are there is always someone better than you, and everytime a Warlord meets a fighter better than him, even if in only a small way, he learns something from it. Of course, there is something to be said about the thrill of battle, and the glory of the slaughter. Most Warlords can appreciate these as well.

HD: d12

Alignment: Any

Saves: Good Fort, poor others

LV  Base Atk Bonus    Class Features                      I  II  III  IV
1.   +1               Art of War, True Aptitude           2
2.   +2               Combat Focus                        2
3.   +3               Defensive Training                  3
4.   +4               Ever Vigilant (Maintain)            3
5.   +5                                                   3   1
6.   +6/+1            Tide of Battle (Expend)             3   1
7.   +7/+2                                                4   1
8.   +8/+3            Tremulous Steps (Maintain)          4   1
9.   +9/+4                                                4   2
10.  +10/+5           Shellshock (Expend)                 4   2   1
11.  +11/+6/+1                                            5   2   1
12.  +12/+7/+2        Through the Haze (Maintain)         5   2   1
13.  +13/+8/+3                                            5   3   1
14.  +14/+9/+4        True Threat (Expend)                5   3   2
15.  +15/+10/+5                                           6   3   2   1
16.  +16/+11/+6/+1    Action Without Thought (Maintain)   6   3   2   1
17.  +17/+12/+7/+2                                        6   4   2   1
18.  +18/+13/+8/+3    Battleshaper (Expend)               6   4   3   1
19.  +19/+14/+9/+4                                        7   4   3   2
20.  +20/+15/+10/+5   Defensive Mastery, Lord of War      7   4   3   2


Class Skills (4+Int per level): Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, Tumble

Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, all armors and shields (including tower).

Combat Feats (Ex): Warlords make extensive use of feats, and master powerful techniques other warriors would never dream of. In a manner similar to how a Wizard prepares spells, Warlords prepare themselves for the day, drawing on a wide breadth of combat experience and proficiency. Warlords prepare feats instead of spells, drawn from the Warlord's list of Combat Feats (given below), his feats divided into tiers much like a spellcaster's spells are divided into levels. Warlords begin play knowing 3 Tier I feats, but can only prepare 2 as indicated on the table above (can prepare 7 Tier I feats at 20th level). A Warlord can prepare a lower Tier feat he knows into a higher Tier "slot" when he prepares his feats. At each level, a Warlord learns a new feat, and can learn any feats of Tiers that are available to him. At 5th, 10th, and 15th level a Warlord learns an additional feat of any Tier available to him (25 total known feats at 20th level). When a Warlord learns a feat that says it can be taken multiple times he may ready that feat multiple times, but only needs to learn it once.

Tier I feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +4, skill ranks no greater than 7, and ability scores no greater than 15. Tier II feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +9, skill ranks no greater than 12, and ability scores no greater than 17. Tier III feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +14, skill ranks no greater than 17, ability scores no greater than 19, and Epic Warlord feats.
Tier IV feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB 15 or higher, skill ranks 18 or higher, ability scores 20+, and Epic Warlord feats.

Any feat which has another feat as a prerequisite is always the same Tier as that feat or higher. To learn a feat a Warlord must still qualify for it as normal. To prepare a feat that requires other feats as prerequisites those feats must be prepared first. Warlords can "empty" their "feat slots" and reprepare feats with 5 minutes rest for each slot emptied this way.

"Retraining Feats" - At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels a Warlord can lose combat feats he's learned throughout his career to learn other ones in their place. At 5th level he can replace any Tier I feat he knows with any other Tier I feat he meets the prerequisites for. At 10th he can replace another Tier I feat, but can also replace a Tier II feat. At 15th level he can replace another Tier I feat, another Tier II feat, and can also replace a Tier III feat. At 20th level he can replace a feat of each Tier available to him if he chooses.

Art of War (Ex): For the purposes of qualifying for feats The Warlord treats his ability scores as though they were 2 points higher than they actually are at 1st level, 3 points higher than the actually are at 6th level, 4 points higher than they actually are at 11th level and 5 points higher than they actually are at 16th level.

True Aptitude (Ex): That little thing that Warblades do is cute and all, trying so hard to emulate what comes so naturally to a Warlord. A Warlord with Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or any other feats of that nature (any feat with benefits that apply to a specific weapon) can switch the weapon to which those feats applies as a swift action.

Combat Focus (Ex): Warlords are expected to be alert, ready to take advantage of the flow of the field in an instant. By spending a move action, a Warlord of 2nd level and higher can enter a focused state of mind. This state lasts for a number of rounds equal to 5 or 1/2 Warlord level +2 (whichever is higher), and during the focus the Warlord gains a +2 bonus to a single saving throw. As a swift or immediate action the Warlord can voluntarily end his focus to reroll a single d20 roll. Warlords cannot gain or maintain Combat Focus outside of battle for the state of mind and body needed to achieve this simply doesn't exist except in those conditions.

Defensive Training (Ex): At 3rd level the Warlord chooses a specific defensive style with which he will assume throughout his career between Armor Usage, Insightful Guidance, or Deflective Parry.

Armor Usage- A Warlord that chooses Armor Usage gains a bonus to his AC while wearing any type of armor equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. Further, when a Warlord wears armor he gains Damage Reduction depending on the Armor Type. Heavy Armor grants DR 3/--, Medium DR 2/--, and Light DR 1/--. This DR stacks with any existing DR you possess of the same type. Finally, while wearing armor a Warlord reduces the armor check penalty by 1 and increases an armor's max Dex bonus by 1 for each +1 to AC he would normally gain from this ability.

Insightful Guidance - A Warlord that chooses Insightful Guidance doesn't rely on armor quite so much as his fellows. These Warlords gain an insight bonus to AC equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. All allies who can hear the Warlord gain 1/2 this bonus (rounded down) as the Warlord offers defensive advice. Double these bonuses (going from 0 to 1) for any character while he or she fights defensively (this includes the bonuses granted to allies).

Deflective Parry - A Warlord that chooses Deflective Parry hardly relies on armor at all, but defends himself with his weapon. These Warlords gain a deflection bonus to AC equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. Double this bonus during any round in which the Warlord attacks with two weapons. While fighting defensively a Warlord may parry any ranged attack targeting himself as the Deflect Arrows feat (though the Warlord needs not have an open hand).

Ever Vigilant (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord of 4th level or higher gains a competence bonus to Listen and Spot checks made to oppose the Hide or Move Silently checks of his enemies equal to 5 or 1/2 his Warlord Levels (rounded up) +2 (whichever is higher). Further, he does not suffer the penalties of Blindness (or Deafness) against any foe he has detected through his Listen or Spot skills, nor is he flat-footed against Invisible foes he has detected through Listen. Such foes do not gain any bonus to attack rolls against the Warlord either.

Tide of Battle (Ex): A Warlord of 6th level or higher may spend an immediate action to voluntarily end his Combat Focus and take a move action.

Tremulous Steps (Ex): Starting at 8th level, while benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord gains Tremorsense out to 30ft.

Shellshock (Ex): As a swift action, a Warlord of 10th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to cause his next attack to damage his foe's armor or natural armor. When he makes an attack this way he reduces his foe's armor bonus by 1 point per 10 points of damage his attack inflicted. Manufactured armor damaged this way is destroyed if its armor bonus is reduced to 0 (armor bonus includes magical enhancements). Natural armor damaged this way can be restored by any means that restores ability damage, and in equal amount (includes natural healing).

Through the Haze (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord of 12th level or higher can see through illusions, always succeeds Will disbelief saves, and can see invisible creatures. Invisible creatures still benefit from total concealment, the Warlord can merely see where they are.

True Threat (Ex): As a swift action, a Warlord of 14th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to automatically confirm a critical hit, or to cause a foe that he has just confirmed a critical hit on to make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 Warlord Levels+Warlord's Constitution modifier +his weapon's threat range) or die.

Action Without Thought (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, if a Warlord of 16th level or higher would be subject to a Mind-Afflicting effect, he ignores its effects until his Combat Focus expires or is expended (if the duration of the effect continues after his Combat Focus it begins to effect him once the Focus has run out).

Battleshaper (Ex): As a swift or immediate action, a Warlord of 18th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to take a standard or full round action. If he takes a standard action in this way he loses his move action during his next turn. If he takes a full round action this way he is dazed during his next turn. Warlords can only use this ability once each encounter.

Defensive Mastery(Ex): At 20th level a Warlord has reached the pinnacle of his protective proficiency (say that three times fast!). He gains stupendous benefits from his choice in Defensive Training.

Armor Usage - The Damage Reduction granted by your armor increases to DR 9/-- for Heavy Armor, DR 6/-- for Medium and DR 3/-- for light. Additionally you ignore all speed restrictions of the armor you wear.

Insightful Guidance - You are ready for anything. You add the bonus to your AC from your training to your Initiative as well, and all allies that can hear you gain 1/2 this bonus (rounded down). Any character who fights defensively adds this bonus to a single saving throw.

Deflective Parry - You push away attacks with ease. Increase the deflection bonus granted by your Defensive Training by +2. Further, whenever a foe attacks you or an adjacent ally, if you're fighting defensively, you may substitute the target's AC for an attack roll made at your highest bonus. Each time you do this you forfeit an attack of opportunity for the round.

Lord of War (Ex): As long as a Warlord of 20th level or higher has a higher attack bonus than any foe he threatens, those creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity against the Warlord. Further, once per encounter if the Warlord would voluntarily end his Combat Focus he may regain it as a free action.

Warlord Combat Feats
Tier I - Sneak Attack*, Alertness, Athletic, Blind-fight, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Whirlwind Attack, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Diehard*, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Deflect Arrows, Mounted Combat, Mounted Archery, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, Improved Sunder, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, Improved Shield Bash, Tower Shield Proficiency, Toughness, Improved Toughness, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Defense, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Clever Wrestling, Close Quarters Fighting, Defensive Strike, Defensive Throw, Eyes in the Back of Your Head, Greater Resiliency, Hamstring, Hold the Line, Improved Buckler Defense, Improved Mounted Archery, Improved Two Weapon Defense, Karmic Strike, Kiai Shout, Monkey Grip, Phalanx Fighting, Pin Shield, Power Critical, Prone Attack, Sharp Shooting, Shield Charge, Swarmfighting, Throw Anything, Zen Archery, Brutal Throw, Power Throw, Combat Intuition, Death Blow, Deft Opportunist, Expert Tactician, Goad, Hear the Unseen, Improved Diversion, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Quick Reconnoiter, Cometary Collision, Crossbow Sniper, Deadeye Shot, Fade Into Violence, Flay, Grenadier, Hindering Opportunist, Intimidating Strike, Keen-Eared Scout, Melee Evasion, Shield Specialization, Active Shield Defense, Agile Shield Fighter, Shield Ward, Short Haft, Tumbling Feint, Vexing Flanker, Adaptable Flanker, Evasive Reflexes, Martial Study, Martial Stance, Rapid Assault, Daredevil Athlete, Deadly Defense, Disemboweling Strike, Head Shot, Persistant Attacker, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Pierce Magical Protection, Hostile Mind, Sidestep Charge, Stand Still, Combat Focus, Combat Stability, Mad Alchemist, Anvil of Thunder, Bear Fang, Hammer's Edge, High Sword Low Axe, Lightning Mace, Quick Staff, Spinning Halberd, Three Mountains

Tier II - Improved Critical, Stunning Fist, Manyshot, Improved Precise Shot, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus, Fists of Iron, Flick of the Wrist, Improved Combat Expertise, Improved Rapid Shot, Greater Kiai Shout, Ranged Disarm, Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, Shield Slam, Deft Strike, Dual Strike, Leap Attack, Staggering Strike, Acrobatic Strike, Brutal Strike, Combat Acrobat, Stalwart Defense, Lunging Strike, Melee Weapon Mastery, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Shield Sling, Two-Weapon Pounce, Deadly Precision, Greater Manyshot, Combat Defense, Combat Vigor, Cavalry Charger, Combat Brute, Elusive Target, Formation Expert, Giantbane, Raptor School, Shock Trooper, Crescent Moon, Blood Spiked Charger, Combat Cloak Expert, Combat Panache, Einhander, Shadow Striker, Silent and Deadly*

Tier III - Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Defense, Armor Specialization, Bounding Assault, Combat Tactician, Crushing Strike, Driving Attack, Slashing Flurry, Penetrating Shot, Robilar's Gambit, Two Weapon Rend, Combat Awareness, Improved Sneak Attack*, Armor Skin (E), Combat Archery (E), Energy Resistance (E), Epic Prowess (E), Epic Toughness (E), Great Charisma (E), Great Constitution (E), Great Dexterity (E), Great Intelligence (E), Great Strength (E), Great Wisdom (E), Improved Stunning Fist (E), Instant Reload (E), Penetrate Damage Reduction (E), Spellcasting Harrier (E)

Tier IV - Rapid Blitz, Defensive Sweep, Overwhelming Assault, Weapon Supremacy, Combat Strike, Greater Sneak Attack*, Blinding Speed (E), Damage Reduction (E), Distant Shot (E), Epic Dodge (E), Exceptional Deflection (E), Fast Healing (E), Improved Combat Reflexes (E), Improved Manyshot (E), Improved Whirlwind Attack (E), Infinite Deflection (E), Overwhelming Critical (E), Devastating Critical (E), Perfect Two Weapon Fighting (E), Reflect Arrows (E), Storm of Throws (E), Swarm of Arrows (E), Uncanny Accuracy (E)

* = As found below in the Character Options section
(E) = Epic Feat. The Warlord need not meet the prerequisites of these feats except that he still must learn them only when he could learn other feats in the same Tiers.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 12:33:14 AM by bkdubs123 » Logged
bkdubs123
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 10:24:28 AM »

Well this "fix" manages to make Two-Weapon fighting a viable option for "Fighters" even without having extra damage. Still trying to think of any way to make fighting with a single weapon more viable.
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 04:00:45 AM »

It's official. I've gotta bump this. I really need feedback on the Combat Feats system. The goal is something similar to ToB, but different, and on the same power level. I need to know if I'm missing any crucial information, if I'm missing any glaring holes or errors in the system, and if the system is at all balanced, because I can't see all the permutations of feat combos.
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RobbyPants
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 08:51:29 PM »

Sorry it took me so long to get to this one.  Normally, I try to get to a class you post within the first day or so.  I've been pretty busy lately.


Combat Feats (Ex): Warlords make extensive use of feats, and master powerful techniques other warriors would never dream of. In a manner similar to how a Wizard prepares spells, Warlords prepare themselves for the day, drawing on a wide breadth of combat experience and proficiency. Warlords prepare feats instead of spells, drawn from the Core Fighter's list of bonus feats, his feats divided into tiers much like a spellcaster's spells are divided into levels. Warlords begin play knowing 3 Tier I feats, and prepare 2 as indicated on the table above. At each level, a Warlord learns a new feat of every Tier he has available to prepare.

Tier I feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +4, skill ranks no greater than 7, and ability scores no greater than 15. Tier II feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +9, skill ranks no greater than 12, and ability scores no greater than 17. Tier III feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +14, skill ranks no greater than 17, ability scores no greater than 19, and Epic Warlord feats.
Tier IV feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB 15 or higher, skill ranks 18 or higher, ability scores 20+, and Epic Warlord feats.

Any feat which has another feat as a prerequisite is always the same Tier as that feat or higher. To learn a feat a Warlord must still qualify for it as normal. To prepare a feat that requires other feats as prerequisites those feats must be prepared first. Warlords can "empty" their "feat slots" and reprepare feats with 5 minutes rest for each slot emptied this way.

"Retraining Feats" - At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels a Warlord can lose combat feats he's learned throughout his career to learn other ones in their place. At 5th level he can replace any Tier I feat he knows with any other Tier I feat he meets the prerequisites for. At 10th he can replace another Tier I feat, but can also replace a Tier II feat. At 15th level he can replace another Tier I feat, another Tier II feat, and can also replace a Tier III feat. At 20th level he can replace a feat of each Tier available to him if he chooses.
Feats as spells, per se.  Interesting.  I won't make a huge comment on this, as I haven't taken the time to really look at what feats you can take at each "tier".  I imagine this ability is the reason you're making your feat chain thread.  Smirk

When you get some more feat chains hammered out, this will be easier to evaluate.  As it stands, so many of the core feats are gimped, this ability is probably fine.


Art of War (Ex): For the purposes of qualifying for feats The Warlord treats his ability scores as though they were 2 points higher than they actually are at 1st level, 3 points higher than the actually are at 6th level, 4 points higher than they actually are at 11th level and 5 points higher than they actually are at 16th level.
This certainly makes the warlords life easier.  So, it looks like this only applies to ability scores, which is good.  You're not bypassing the normal BAB or skill rank level restrictions.


True Aptitude (Ex): That little thing that Warblades do is cute and all, trying so hard to emulate what comes so naturally to a Warlord. A Warlord with Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or any other feats of that nature (any feat with benefits that apply to a specific weapon) can switch the weapon to which those feats applies as a swift action.
Nice little jab at the warblade.  I guess this really isn't game breaking, and it's probably handy as hell at low levels.  How many people take the Weapon Specialization line for more than one weapon anyway?  Plus, with Aptitude weapons from ToB, any character can pull this off with a simple +1 enhancement.


Combat Focus (Ex): Warlords are expected to be alert, ready to take advantage of the flow of the field in an instant. By spending a move action, a Warlord of 2nd level and higher can enter a focused state of mind. This state lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 Warlord level +2, and during the focus the Warlord gains a +2 bonus to a single saving throw. As a swift or immediate action the Warlord can voluntarily end his focus to reroll a single d20 roll. Warlords cannot gain or maintain Combat Focus outside of battle for the state of mind and body needed to achieve this simply doesn't exist except in those conditions.
This reminds me of an ability I used in a fighter rewrite at gleemax over a year ago (although I modified it from OttoTheBugbear).  I like the ability.  I'm assuming you pick your saving throw to apply the bonus to when you enter your Combat Focus?

Just a technicality: if you expend your focus to reroll a saving throw, does the +2 bonus from Combat Focus still apply, or is it dropped before applying the reroll?


Defensive Training (Ex): At 3rd level the Warlord chooses a specific defensive style with which he will assume throughout his career between Armor Training, Competency Training, or Deflection Training.

Armor Training - A Warlord that chooses Armor Training gains a bonus to AC while wearing any type of armor equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. Further, when a Warlord wears armor he gains Damage Reduction depending on the Armor Type. Heavy Armor grants DR 3/--, Medium DR 2/--, and Light DR 1/--. This DR stacks with any existing DR you possess of the same type. Finally, while wearing armor a Warlord reduces the armor check penalty by 1 for each +1 to AC he would normally gain from this ability.
Nice.  At level 3, this will actually matter.


Competency Training - A Warlord that chooses Competency Training doesn't rely on armor quite so much as his fellows. These Warlords gain a competency bonus to AC equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. All allies who can hear the Warlord gain 1/2 this bonus (rounded down) as the Warlord offers defensive advice. Double these bonuses for any character while he or she fights defensively (this includes the bonuses granted to allies).
This one seems stronger than the rest, in that you don't normally add a competency bonus to your AC (at least as far as I know).  This means it will stack with everything else.  Also, I consider a +1 bonus to AC to be stronger than DR 1/- in almost all situations.  Even with heavy armor granting DR 3/-, I think Competency Training will outperform at level 7 by granting a +2 AC bonus that stacks with about anything.

My suggestion might be to change the type (although I'm not sure to what.  Dodge stacks with dodge bonuses, so that won't work), and let Defensive Training also add +1 to the armor's max Dex.  This gives Defensive Mastery a potential AC boost to keep it from lagging behind.


Deflection Training - A Warlord that chooses Deflection Training hardly relies on armor at all, but defends himself with his weapon. These Warlords gain a deflection bonus to AC equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. Double this bonus during any round in which the Warlord attacks with two weapons. While fighting defensively a Warlord may parry any ranged attack targeting himself as the Deflect Arrows feat (though the Warlord needs not have an open hand).
Well, this grants the same bonus as Competence Training, but it won't stack with things like Rings of Protection.  That's a plus.  Now, you can double it when fighting with two weapons, which seems fairly balanced against a S&B fighter.  At most, you're going to end up with an extra +5 bonus at level 19, which a S&B fighter would have surpassed with a magical shield.  So, I actually consider this one weaker than Competence Training.

Also, the deflect arrows is a nice touch.  Not overpowered.  Good flavor.


Ever Vigilant (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord of 4th level or higher gains a competence bonus to Listen and Spot checks made to oppose the Hide or Move Silently checks of his enemies equal to 1/2 his Warlord Levels (rounded up). Further, he does not suffer the penalties of Blindness (or Deafness) against any foe he has detected through his Listen or Spot skills.
It seems this one won't come up too often if you have to expend a move action to gain Combat Focus in the first place.  I guess it could be handy if you're ambushed by reenforcements half way through the fight.


Tide of Battle (Ex): A Warlord of 6th level or higher may spend an immediate action to voluntarily end his Combat Focus and take a move action.
So, can you actually move your full speed as an immediate action?  This expends your Combat Focus (which is a good thing), but it lets you move 20-30 feet out of the way.  This could be powerful as hell, although I guess it's weaker in most senses than Abrupt Jaunt.


Tremulous Steps (Ex): Starting at 8th level, while benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord gains Tremorsense out to 30ft.
Cool.  This could be handy in a lot of situations.


Shellshock (Ex): As a swift action, a Warlord of 10th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to cause his next attack to damage his foe's armor or natural armor. When he makes an attack this way he reduces his foe's armor bonus by 1 point per 10 points of damage his attack inflicted. Manufactured armor damaged this way is destroyed if its armor bonus is reduced to 0. Natural armor damaged this way can be restored by any means that restores ability damage, and in equal amount (includes natural healing).
The name of the ability seems odd to me, but I like the effect.  I also like that you added a way for creatures to heal their natual armor.

To clear up a Technicality: Do enhancement bonuses count for how much AC damage it takes to destroy armor?  Basically, if you have a suit of +3 Fullplate, is it destroyed after 8 or 11 points?  I think it should be the latter.


Action Without Thought (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, if a Warlord of 12th level or higher would be subject to a Mind-Afflicting effect, he ignores its effects until his Combat Focus expires or is expended (if the duration of the effect continues after his Combat Focus it begins to effect him once the Focus has run out).
Sweet.  Good flavor, and it helps overcome one of the fighter's bigger weaknesses.


True Threat (Ex): As a swift action, a Warlord of 14th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to automatically confirm a critical hit, or to cause a foe that he has just confirmed a critical hit on to make a Fort save (DC 10+1/2 Warlord Levels+Warlord's Constitution modifier +his weapon's threat range) or die.
This one's kind of odd to me.  I guess auto-confirming a crit with something like a scyth could be devistating, but you have to roll the crit threat in the first place (5 or 10% chance in most cases).  Not so bad.

If you were to use two kukris and pimp the hell out of your threat chance, you'd be threatening a lot more criticals and triggering this ability more often.  Now, the auto-confirm wouldn't be too deadly (it's only x2 damage), but it's that 2nd ability.  It's not the fact that it kills opponents that worries me; you're 14th level, and wizards can already do this.  It's the fact that the DC is based on the threat range of the weapon.  So, a weapon with a really high threat range will both trigger this ability more often and have a higher DC.  You might want to rework how you set that DC.


Through the Haze (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord of 16th level or higher is immune to illusory effects, and can see invisible creatures. Invisible creatures still benefit from total concealment, the Warlord can merely see where they are.
Nice.  Similar to ignoring mind-affecting effects, this will be a big help, and the flavor is nice.


Battleshaper (Ex): As a swift or immediate action, a Warlord of 18th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to take a standard or full round action. If he takes a standard action in this way he loses his move action during his next turn. If he takes a full round action this way he is dazed during his next turn. Warlords can only use this ability once each encounter.
The only thing that worries me is this reaks of Celerity.  I guess you can't set it to go off on a Contigency though, so it's not quite as bad.  In a high-level, rocket-tag like game, the extra action up front can end the fight before you even see the penalty (although I guss that's the point  Smirk).


Defensive Mastery(Ex): At 20th level a Warlord has reached the pinnacle of his protective proficiency (say that three times fast!). He gains stupendous benefits from his choice in Defensive Training.

Armor Training - The Damage Reduction granted by your armor increases to DR 9/-- for Heavy Armor, DR 6/-- for Medium and DR 3/-- for light. Additionally you ignore all speed restrictions of the armor you wear.
The DR impromvement helps, and I like ignoring the speed restrictions.  If you took my advice about upping the max Dex I suggested above, you might consider increasing it another point or two here.


Competency Training - You are ready for anything. You add the bonus to your AC from your training to your Initiative as well, and all allies that can hear you gain 1/2 this bonus (rounded down). Any character who fights defensively adds this bonus to a single saving throw.
I actually don't see this is as powerful as the first Competency Training ability.  It's certainly handy, don't get me wrong, but it's only a +5 Initiative bonus at this point, which is only 25% better than Improved Initiative (although I guess the two would stack).


Deflection Training - You push away attacks with ease. Increase the deflection bonus granted by your Defensive Training by +2. Further, whenever a foe attacks you or an adjacent ally, if you're fighting defensively, you may substitute the target's AC for an attack roll made at your highest bonus. Each time you do this you forfeit an attack of opportunity for the round.
Do you add double this +2 if you're TWF?

It looks like the second ability is a block of sorts?  It's certainly nice, but it's nothing spectacular for a 20th level ability.


Lord of War (Ex): As long as a Warlord of 20th level or higher has a higher attack bonus than any foe he threatens, those creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity against the Warlord. Further, once per encounter if the Warlord would voluntarily end his Combat Focus he may regain it as a free action.
That's handy.  The AoO thing can let him litterally wade into battle.  Regaining your Combat Focus for free is nice, and doesn't seem too abuseable in that anything that allows you to expend your Combat Focus takes an Immediate action, which limits you to one per round anyway.


All in all I like the look of the class.  There were only a few issues I actually had with it.  Again, with more of your feat chains completed, this might give us a better idea of what this class can really do.  Nice job!

P.S. Awesome picture, by the way.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 08:55:56 PM by RobbyPants » Logged

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bkdubs123
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2008, 02:12:08 AM »

Sorry it took me so long to get to this one.  Normally, I try to get to a class you post within the first day or so.  I've been pretty busy lately.

S'okay, maybe I was just getting impatient. I had posted this at WotC too, as part of a "Rebalancing Core" thread, but even though it got attention, it didn't actually get any evaluation.

Combat Feats (Ex): Warlords make extensive use of feats, and master powerful techniques other warriors would never dream of. In a manner similar to how a Wizard prepares spells, Warlords prepare themselves for the day, drawing on a wide breadth of combat experience and proficiency. Warlords prepare feats instead of spells, drawn from the Core Fighter's list of bonus feats, his feats divided into tiers much like a spellcaster's spells are divided into levels. Warlords begin play knowing 3 Tier I feats, and prepare 2 as indicated on the table above. At each level, a Warlord learns a new feat of every Tier he has available to prepare.

Tier I feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +4, skill ranks no greater than 7, and ability scores no greater than 15. Tier II feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +9, skill ranks no greater than 12, and ability scores no greater than 17. Tier III feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB no greater than +14, skill ranks no greater than 17, ability scores no greater than 19, and Epic Warlord feats.
Tier IV feats include all Warlord feats whose prerequisites require BAB 15 or higher, skill ranks 18 or higher, ability scores 20+, and Epic Warlord feats.

Any feat which has another feat as a prerequisite is always the same Tier as that feat or higher. To learn a feat a Warlord must still qualify for it as normal. To prepare a feat that requires other feats as prerequisites those feats must be prepared first. Warlords can "empty" their "feat slots" and reprepare feats with 5 minutes rest for each slot emptied this way.

"Retraining Feats" - At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels a Warlord can lose combat feats he's learned throughout his career to learn other ones in their place. At 5th level he can replace any Tier I feat he knows with any other Tier I feat he meets the prerequisites for. At 10th he can replace another Tier I feat, but can also replace a Tier II feat. At 15th level he can replace another Tier I feat, another Tier II feat, and can also replace a Tier III feat. At 20th level he can replace a feat of each Tier available to him if he chooses.
Feats as spells, per se.  Interesting.  I won't make a huge comment on this, as I haven't taken the time to really look at what feats you can take at each "tier".  I imagine this ability is the reason you're making your feat chain thread.  Smirk

When you get some more feat chains hammered out, this will be easier to evaluate.  As it stands, so many of the core feats are gimped, this ability is probably fine.[/quote]

Ah, well it is supposed to include any and every feat that has been added to the Core Fighter's list of bonus feats. I'll remove Core from the description to make it less confusing. This is why I need the advice. I've played around with a few sample builds, seen some of the things you can do with PHB, PHBII, and CW, but I didn't go much further out than that. If this class can be broken beyond belief through some obscure feat comboing, I'd like to know.

True Aptitude (Ex): That little thing that Warblades do is cute and all, trying so hard to emulate what comes so naturally to a Warlord. A Warlord with Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or any other feats of that nature (any feat with benefits that apply to a specific weapon) can switch the weapon to which those feats applies as a swift action.
Nice little jab at the warblade.  I guess this really isn't game breaking, and it's probably handy as hell at low levels.  How many people take the Weapon Specialization line for more than one weapon anyway?  Plus, with Aptitude weapons from ToB, any character can pull this off with a simple +1 enhancement.[/quote]

I see there being a lot of tension in game between Warlords and Warblades. They should be on around equal footing, but they go about things in very different ways and each thinks they are the greatest weaponsmaster who ever lived Smile

Combat Focus (Ex): Warlords are expected to be alert, ready to take advantage of the flow of the field in an instant. By spending a move action, a Warlord of 2nd level and higher can enter a focused state of mind. This state lasts for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 Warlord level +2, and during the focus the Warlord gains a +2 bonus to a single saving throw. As a swift or immediate action the Warlord can voluntarily end his focus to reroll a single d20 roll. Warlords cannot gain or maintain Combat Focus outside of battle for the state of mind and body needed to achieve this simply doesn't exist except in those conditions.
This reminds me of an ability I used in a fighter rewrite at gleemax over a year ago (although I modified it from OttoTheBugbear).  I like the ability.  I'm assuming you pick your saving throw to apply the bonus to when you enter your Combat Focus?[/quote]

Ah, yes. Need clarification in the ability?

Quote from: Robby
Just a technicality: if you expend your focus to reroll a saving throw, does the +2 bonus from Combat Focus still apply, or is it dropped before applying the reroll?

Hrm... what do you think? I'm thinking no. The ability to re-roll any save is already nice enough, I'd say.

Defensive Training (Ex): At 3rd level the Warlord chooses a specific defensive style with which he will assume throughout his career between Armor Training, Competency Training, or Deflection Training.

Armor Training - A Warlord that chooses Armor Training gains a bonus to AC while wearing any type of armor equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. Further, when a Warlord wears armor he gains Damage Reduction depending on the Armor Type. Heavy Armor grants DR 3/--, Medium DR 2/--, and Light DR 1/--. This DR stacks with any existing DR you possess of the same type. Finally, while wearing armor a Warlord reduces the armor check penalty by 1 for each +1 to AC he would normally gain from this ability.
Nice.  At level 3, this will actually matter.[/quote]

Yep, those were my thoughts. And it makes using Heavy Armor good again. I will be adding in the bonus to max dex as you later suggest. I had been testing it as though it had that in there already!

Competency Training - A Warlord that chooses Competency Training doesn't rely on armor quite so much as his fellows. These Warlords gain a competency bonus to AC equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. All allies who can hear the Warlord gain 1/2 this bonus (rounded down) as the Warlord offers defensive advice. Double these bonuses for any character while he or she fights defensively (this includes the bonuses granted to allies).
This one seems stronger than the rest, in that you don't normally add a competency bonus to your AC (at least as far as I know).  This means it will stack with everything else.  Also, I consider a +1 bonus to AC to be stronger than DR 1/- in almost all situations.  Even with heavy armor granting DR 3/-, I think Competency Training will outperform at level 7 by granting a +2 AC bonus that stacks with about anything.

My suggestion might be to change the type (although I'm not sure to what.  Dodge stacks with dodge bonuses, so that won't work), and let Defensive Training also add +1 to the armor's max Dex.  This gives Defensive Mastery a potential AC boost to keep it from lagging behind.[/quote]

Do insight bonuses always stack? I can't remember off-hand. This was one that I too considered the most powerful, but I don't know what to do with it. If not competency or insight... circumstance? That doesn't seem right either...

Deflection Training - A Warlord that chooses Deflection Training hardly relies on armor at all, but defends himself with his weapon. These Warlords gain a deflection bonus to AC equal to +1 at 3rd level and an additional +1 every four levels thereafter. Double this bonus during any round in which the Warlord attacks with two weapons. While fighting defensively a Warlord may parry any ranged attack targeting himself as the Deflect Arrows feat (though the Warlord needs not have an open hand).
Well, this grants the same bonus as Competence Training, but it won't stack with things like Rings of Protection.  That's a plus.  Now, you can double it when fighting with two weapons, which seems fairly balanced against a S&B fighter.  At most, you're going to end up with an extra +5 bonus at level 19, which a S&B fighter would have surpassed with a magical shield.  So, I actually consider this one weaker than Competence Training.

Also, the deflect arrows is a nice touch.  Not overpowered.  Good flavor.[/quote]

Yeah, so with increasing max dex on armor do you think Deflection and Armor are about roughly balanced?

Ever Vigilant (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord of 4th level or higher gains a competence bonus to Listen and Spot checks made to oppose the Hide or Move Silently checks of his enemies equal to 1/2 his Warlord Levels (rounded up). Further, he does not suffer the penalties of Blindness (or Deafness) against any foe he has detected through his Listen or Spot skills.
It seems this one won't come up too often if you have to expend a move action to gain Combat Focus in the first place.  I guess it could be handy if you're ambushed by reenforcements half way through the fight.[/quote]

I think I'll increase the bonus to 1/2 level +2. It seemed a little lacking for my tastes too when playtesting.

Tide of Battle (Ex): A Warlord of 6th level or higher may spend an immediate action to voluntarily end his Combat Focus and take a move action.
So, can you actually move your full speed as an immediate action?  This expends your Combat Focus (which is a good thing), but it lets you move 20-30 feet out of the way.  This could be powerful as hell, although I guess it's weaker in most senses than Abrupt Jaunt.[/quote]

Yep, full speed as an immediate action. Thing is, you've used a move action to take one. At worst it's like you readied a move action, at best you readied a move action to take whenever the moment arises. It's powerful, but it's awesome. 

Tremulous Steps (Ex): Starting at 8th level, while benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord gains Tremorsense out to 30ft.
Cool.  This could be handy in a lot of situations.[/quote]

Yep. Meant to handle invisible foes.

Shellshock (Ex): As a swift action, a Warlord of 10th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to cause his next attack to damage his foe's armor or natural armor. When he makes an attack this way he reduces his foe's armor bonus by 1 point per 10 points of damage his attack inflicted. Manufactured armor damaged this way is destroyed if its armor bonus is reduced to 0. Natural armor damaged this way can be restored by any means that restores ability damage, and in equal amount (includes natural healing).
The name of the ability seems odd to me, but I like the effect.  I also like that you added a way for creatures to heal their natual armor.

To clear up a Technicality: Do enhancement bonuses count for how much AC damage it takes to destroy armor?  Basically, if you have a suit of +3 Fullplate, is it destroyed after 8 or 11 points?  I think it should be the latter.[/quote]

Certainly the latter. I'll throw in some clarification for that. As for the name: think of a creature's NA or suit of Full Plate as a shell. I kinda liked the play on words. If anyone can think of something better I'd gladly replace the name though.

Quote from: Robby
If you were to use two kukris and pimp the hell out of your threat chance, you'd be threatening a lot more criticals and triggering this ability more often.  Now, the auto-confirm wouldn't be too deadly (it's only x2 damage), but it's that 2nd ability.  It's not the fact that it kills opponents that worries me; you're 14th level, and wizards can already do this.  It's the fact that the DC is based on the threat range of the weapon.  So, a weapon with a really high threat range will both trigger this ability more often and have a higher DC.  You might want to rework how you set that DC.

Okay, so you can get Kukris all the way down to what 9-20 crit? Which is +12 to the save, which makes the save... something like 40 or more at 20th level. High, but not off the RNG, and it only works against creatures that can be crit in the first place.

Through the Haze (Ex): While benefiting from Combat Focus, a Warlord of 16th level or higher is immune to illusory effects, and can see invisible creatures. Invisible creatures still benefit from total concealment, the Warlord can merely see where they are.
Nice.  Similar to ignoring mind-affecting effects, this will be a big help, and the flavor is nice.[/quote]

Do you think this is too little too late? If so, where could I move it, and what could I move around to make room?

Battleshaper (Ex): As a swift or immediate action, a Warlord of 18th level or higher can voluntarily end his Combat Focus to take a standard or full round action. If he takes a standard action in this way he loses his move action during his next turn. If he takes a full round action this way he is dazed during his next turn. Warlords can only use this ability once each encounter.
The only thing that worries me is this reaks of Celerity.  I guess you can't set it to go off on a Contigency though, so it's not quite as bad.  In a high-level, rocket-tag like game, the extra action up front can end the fight before you even see the penalty (although I guss that's the point  Smirk).[/quote]

Well, the big point is to use this as a reactive measure. Yes you can use it up front, but I'm not at all sure how often this Warlord can end a fight in a single round.

Deflection Training - You push away attacks with ease. Increase the deflection bonus granted by your Defensive Training by +2. Further, whenever a foe attacks you or an adjacent ally, if you're fighting defensively, you may substitute the target's AC for an attack roll made at your highest bonus. Each time you do this you forfeit an attack of opportunity for the round.
Do you add double this +2 if you're TWF?

It looks like the second ability is a block of sorts?  It's certainly nice, but it's nothing spectacular for a 20th level ability.[/quote]

Yeah, you double the +2 as it is added on to the normal bonus that you already have. The second ability is pretty much the Warblade counter Wall of Blades except you can do it all the effing time. No, it isn't amazing, but it is pretty nice.

Lord of War (Ex): As long as a Warlord of 20th level or higher has a higher attack bonus than any foe he threatens, those creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity against the Warlord. Further, once per encounter if the Warlord would voluntarily end his Combat Focus he may regain it as a free action.
That's handy.  The AoO thing can let him litterally wade into battle.  Regaining your Combat Focus for free is nice, and doesn't seem too abuseable in that anything that allows you to expend your Combat Focus takes an Immediate action, which limits you to one per round anyway.[/quote]

Yep, just a final installment to really give an edge to the Warlord who is already all about tactical placement and movement.

Quote from: Robby
All in all I like the look of the class.  There were only a few issues I actually had with it.  Again, with more of your feat chains completed, this might give us a better idea of what this class can really do.  Nice job!

P.S. Awesome picture, by the way.

Hey, thanks for going through it all and hitting it point by point. It certainly is a wall of text, but that's because I put a lot of effort in trying to create a system that was playable, fun to play, that fixed the Fighter's problems while still feeling like a Fighter, and while still being balanced. I think I got the job done, but we'll see.

EDIT: Oh, and yeah, Wen-M at deviantart. Awesome artist.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 02:21:57 AM by bkdubs123 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2008, 02:42:18 AM »

Ohhhh everyone knows Wen-M!  Too bad Anima is going to suck when it arrives in English. 8)

The "Retraining Feats" mention isn't an ability, is it? That's redundant if a group uses the PHB2, and if you intend to make such a thing default even in groups NOT using retraining rules it comes so sparse here that the effect is negligible.

As a whole the effects are in balance with maneuver capabilities, but this thing you have going with maintain and expend really would work better as yet more stances/boosts and, well, either more boosts or something else instantaneous.

One problem: Through The Haze grants immunity to Illusions. Why? That's even more booorken than True Seeing's annihilation of the Illusion school. The See Invisible effect comes way too late; it should ideally arrive around level 3 or so, when other characters get Invisibility.
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2008, 03:00:45 AM »

As a whole the effects are in balance with maneuver capabilities, but this thing you have going with maintain and expend really would work better as yet more stances/boosts and, well, either more boosts or something else instantaneous.

Not sure I understand what you mean here. You say that the whole Combat Focus chain would work "better" as stances/boosts/counters, as in I should add them to some already existing ToB discipline? If that's the case you're missing the point. This class is an alternative to the Warblade and a "fixed fighter." I don't need to add to the Warblade's stuff, he has plenty of goodies, and some people don't like ToB in the first place. Hence...

Quote from: Siggy
One problem: Through The Haze grants immunity to Illusions. Why? That's even more booorken than True Seeing's annihilation of the Illusion school. The See Invisible effect comes way too late; it should ideally arrive around level 3 or so, when other characters get Invisibility.

Ah, it isn't supposed to make him completely immune to Illusion spells period, he's supposed to just be able to see through illusions and always succeed Will disbelief saves. I used short hand when I definitely shouldn't have. Thanks for pointing that out.

PS: I'm hoping to take a look at Anima. It will be coming out soon I hear. What I've heard about it makes it sound terribly unwieldy, but I do try to get as broad an understanding of game systems as I can.
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« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2008, 05:11:55 AM »

Oh, thought it was a maneuver-user too. It's just Tier-something feats...
Guess I did miss the point.
It does work as an alternative to ToB but I saw a lot of crossover and figured 'why make yet another system for the same thing?'.

Art for Anima will be godly but that's about all it has going for it.
Ironically, I was looking through the Dev and Wen's stuff specifically and thought "I wonder how many D&D classes were inspired by a single image such this (these)?"
For instance, the Blood Elemental.
http://wen-m.deviantart.com/art/Anima-Blood-Elemental-100788506
... could be a racial class for shapeshifters or blood-sucking entities both, granting crossover benefits of some kind.

My ultimate goal is to stat something like this http://wen-m.deviantart.com/art/Anima-The-Seraph-91155443
... in to 3e but at the present moment it would be almost an insult to the concept, what with my design skills at the moment.
Perhaps when I get a bit better at all this, I'll do the Seraph, Cherubim, Ofanim, the abstract creatures of Kabbalah and so on, in something more "Evangelion" or "Gunbuster" style than the printed release "Anger of Angels". Blech.

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bkdubs123
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2008, 06:53:53 AM »

Oh, thought it was a maneuver-user too. It's just Tier-something feats...
Guess I did miss the point.
It does work as an alternative to ToB but I saw a lot of crossover and figured 'why make yet another system for the same thing?'.

Oh, yeah, no. If it had maneuvers man this thing would just be ridiculous compared to a Warblade. Yep, just feats and Focus. I wouldn't say there's really that much crossover. It achieves largely equivalent effects but through largely different means. In playtesting though I concluded that it accumulates many, many more static/ongoing effects (stances) than it does singular/instantaneous tactical attack effects (strikes). So it is like a mirror to the Warblade. Not a lot of unique attack actions, but lots of stance type things. The interplay between maintaining or expending Combat Focus is what I hope will make the character just as interesting to play.

Yeah, I keep track of Wen-M's artwork. That Seraph would be difficult to stat, I'll give you that. I've never statted monsters. Not sure I'd be good at it.
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2008, 03:11:31 PM »

Emboldened by Risada's help in the Create-A-Feat-Chain thread I have undertaken the task of creating Warlord 20 build that emphasizes stealth, agility, and swashbucklery!!

Behold!! Dread Roberts!! http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=88665

His basic shtick: Tumble into flanking position for a net +8 (or more if he feints with Tide of Battle + Improved Feint) to hit, Power Attack for -10 + Fighting Defensively + Combat Expertise for -5, He doesn't actually care if he misses because he's just set himself up to obliterate. His AC rises to 58 and whenever a foe attacks him he can attempt to Parry it. If he does, he can use an AoO, of which he has infinite thanks to Improved Combat Reflexes, he gets to hit the poor sap that missed without taking Fighting Defensively penalties. Oh, and with Baffling Counterattack he can attack some random other guy within his reach (nice if he's saved his Tide of Battle to parry and then jump and destroy), and if he does THAT both parties go, "WTF?!" and become flatfooted allowing him to thrash for 1d6+32+8d6 Sneak Attack. Basically all he does is make people flat-footed or set up flanking opportunities Power Attack, Parry, and AoO the world allowing him deal obscene damage and stay VERY mobile while doing it thanks to maxed Tumble ranks and no armor check penalty due to no armor!

Oh, and did I mention that even enemy AoOs can provoke AoOs from 'ol Dread Roberts? Because they can. And woe unto you if he decides to go Blinding Speed full attack mode on your ass because you'll be flat-footed and flanked and you're about to get hit for at least 24d6+66 damage. I'm pretty sure his AC can get even higher. I might have missed some stacking potential, but on the whole I'd say he's a machine but not overpowered. Certainly seems fun as hell. And he knows 24 more feats, I just didn't care to come up with those because that would basically be an entire other optimized build that he could switch to given a couple hours' practice. I just came up with his readied feats.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 03:14:26 PM by bkdubs123 » Logged
Soda
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2008, 04:04:51 PM »

I like your work very much. I'd like play in a game featuring these classes. Can't wait to see what you do with the casters.
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2008, 04:18:59 PM »

Thank you, Soda. Very kind of you to say so.  Smile
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2008, 04:20:23 PM »

Just a few observations:
1) Shellshock is a PC-hater. There is a reason Sunder stopped working against armor in 3.5.

2) Action Without Thought is basically immunity to mind-affecting; at this point, the focus lasts for 8 rounds. No fight lasts for 8 rounds at 12th level.

3) A weapon's threat range is not a well-defined numerical quantity. An axe has a threat range of 20. I take it True Threat is supposed to add 1 to the DC when using an axe, not 20.

4) Through the Haze is permanent in-combat True Seeing, just one level after the Wizard gets it. You're treading on some toes.

5) Lord of War will never work when you need it. Most monsters have ridiculous BAB, while those without full BAB or Divine Power tend to be casters. You don't care about AoOs from casters.

Overall it seems good, though I'd hate to build much above 5th level because of the sheer volume of feats you need to select.
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2008, 04:41:12 PM »

Just a few observations:
1) Shellshock is a PC-hater. There is a reason Sunder stopped working against armor in 3.5.

Should I add in reminder that you can repair things? Any PC can use the Craft skill, or a magical effect to repair his broken armor. Yeah, it sucks a lil' bit, but hey, at least it takes a while for it to totally destroy the armor.

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2) Action Without Thought is basically immunity to mind-affecting; at this point, the focus lasts for 8 rounds. No fight lasts for 8 rounds at 12th level.

Sort of. What if you get dominated, but the Wizard notices, "Oh, shit he's not doing what I said. Oh, shit, he's coming straight for me," and just teleports the fuck out? Now after those 8 rounds the Wizard notices that he actually does have control. There are numerous instances I can think of where, yes, during combat this is immunity to mind-affecting (which can be bought btw), but where it will still suck after combat when the effect comes back.

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3) A weapon's threat range is not a well-defined numerical quantity. An axe has a threat range of 20. I take it True Threat is supposed to add 1 to the DC when using an axe, not 20.

Advice on proper wording then? Threat range seems defined in the way I'm using it by Keen and Improved Crit, IMO.

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4) Through the Haze is permanent in-combat True Seeing, just one level after the Wizard gets it. You're treading on some toes.

No. It's not. Read again. It was at first, but I have since edited (or did I get around to that... *checks*) it. *done checking* Ah, good, yes, I did. Not True Seeing.

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5) Lord of War will never work when you need it. Most monsters have ridiculous BAB, while those without full BAB or Divine Power tend to be casters. You don't care about AoOs from casters.

Most monsters? I really don't think so. Several, maybe even half, but I wouldn't say most. And the ability uses attack bonus, not BAB, which, given that all Warlords will almost certainly pick up Weapon Focus all the way to Weapon Supremacy, a Warlord's AB is guaranteed to be real high.

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Overall it seems good, though I'd hate to build much above 5th level because of the sheer volume of feats you need to select.

I can understand your sentiment but consider how many more spells a Wizard needs to select to learn. Even a Sorcerer. Consider how many spell slots a Wizard has to prepare every day. Now consider a Warblade and how many maneuvers he knows and prepares, and his bonus feats, and his stances. Roughly equal, eh?
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Risada
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2008, 04:59:36 PM »

Emboldened by Risada's help in the Create-A-Feat-Chain thread I have undertaken the task of creating Warlord 20 build that emphasizes stealth, agility, and swashbucklery!!

Err.... I don't know what to say  Blush

Nice job there  Clap
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2008, 05:15:35 PM »

Thank you, Risada, you helped make it all possible. Who would have ever believed that a char using mostly just Fighter feats could be viable wearing NO armor, wielding a one-handed sword and a buckler, and focusing on flanking?

BONUS COOLNESS: Dread Roberts can even use his signature, "I'm not left handed" trick with Einhander, and intimidate the hell out of people with Combat Panache.
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Ubernoob
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2008, 05:18:44 PM »

This reminds me of an ability I used in a fighter rewrite at gleemax over a year ago (although I modified it from OttoTheBugbear).  I like the ability.  I'm assuming you pick your saving throw to apply the bonus to when you enter your Combat Focus?
Random trivia:
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=56155
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bkdubs123
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2008, 05:31:40 PM »

I didn't actually rip-off Otto, thereby ripping off Frank and K did I? *checks RoW again* It's been a long time since I looked at ye olde Tome Fighter...

*finishes checking* Ah, okay, I didn't. Phew. If I had straight lifted it I certainly would have given credit where it is due. Actually, I almost feel like giving credit anyway, and now am going to. I certainly took some inspiration from theirs and that alone is worth credit in my book.
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Ubernoob
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2008, 06:01:16 PM »

I didn't actually rip-off Otto, thereby ripping off Frank and K did I? *checks RoW again* It's been a long time since I looked at ye olde Tome Fighter...
Just kind of pointing out that Otto didn't really come up with anything new, so even if you had ripped it from him you would have really been ripping it from Frank and K.
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RobbyPants
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2008, 09:54:26 PM »

Yeah, I remember you saying that a while back that Otto took a lot from F&K.  I just wasn't sure if any of what I did inspired bkdubs.  My memory could be wrong, but I thought Otto refered to his ability as Height of Battle, and I use Combat Focus, in that I was trying to work all the PHB2 Combat Focus feats into my fighter rework at the time.  For all I know, F&K called it Combat Focus ahead of me.  It's been too long since I looked at the tomes.
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