Sode #24: Rule 0 (System 03)

[Meg]

Warm-Up:

Each time we record, we watch a video or find a picture to get us in the mood for the episode. It doesn’t always have anything to do with the episode, but frames our minds, so we’re going to share so you can be appropriately framed as well.

    * Probably the Funniest Cat Video You’ll Ever See –Hilarious. Thanks to Dan2 on our boards for linking it in this thread!

News:

    * Couple of days left for the Secret Code Contest! Get your entries in by October 17th!
    * We make an apology of sorts for one of the items listed in the “7 Things We Hate” episode.
    * JiffyCon! We meant to have a news item about this and … oops. But at least it’s written! JiffyCon is almost here- we’re still looking for another GM or two, specializing in little known or Indie Games, and of course would love to see anyone who can make it to come! We’ll help you… nay… guarantee you’ll have a good time!

Icebreaker:

    * Josh went to Providence Anime Conference and rubs it in our face. Won some cool (and sexy) prizes including one for being voted “Biggest Whore”

Douchebag of the Week:

    * The Sycophant

Main Topic:

Rule Zero

    * Rule 0 etymology and definition
    * Oberoni Fallacy
    * House Rules used to mean:
          o Game Design
          o Modding
          o World Building
          o House Rules
    * Corner Cases
    * Fudging Rolls
    * GM= God?
    * Cows… From… Space!

Commercial Break

The Brilliant Gameologists’ Message Boards are sure to cure whatever ails you!  Did you know we have areas for:

    * Talking about the Show including giving ideas for future episodes
    * Off-Topic Fun (including Media, Cons, and politics)
    * Min/Maxing!
    * Non- RPG tabletop games
    * Mature Topics
    * Play by Post

Almost better than Porn!
Random Plugs:
Oberoni Fallacy- as originally stated:

Originally posted by Oberoni on the D&D general board July 23, 2002:

    This my my take on the issue

    Let’s say Bob the board member makes the assertion:

    “There is an inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue with Rule X.”

    Several correct replies can be given:

            * “I agree, there is an inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue with Rule X.”
            * “I agree, and it is easily solvable by changing the following part of Rule X.”
            * “I disagree, you’ve merely misinterpreted part of Rule X. If you reread this part of Rule X, you will see there is no inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue.”

    Okay, I hope you’re with me so far.
    There is, however, an incorrect reply:

            * “There is no inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue with Rule X, because you can always Rule 0 the inconsistency/loophole/mechanics issue.“

    Now, this incorrect reply does not in truth agree with or dispute the original statement in any way, shape, or form.

    It actually contradicts itself–the first part of the statement says there is no problem, while the last part proposes a generic fix to the “non-problem.”

    It doesn’t follow the rules of debate and discussion, and thus should never be used.

    Simple enough.

Reminders-

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Email us at GM@BrilliantGameologists.com

[TheChrisWaits]

I definitely liked the differentiation between the different ways of changing the rules, as I am certainly a proponent of what you called "modding" a system.

[jcm]

I've got to know, was dorsal vagina a scripted gag or an ad-lib?

[Zeke]

It came from my evil brain with no warning.

[Meg]

Except for a few rare times, none of the jokes are ever scripted.  They are always ad lib'ed.  We have an outline of content but reactions to content and jokes are always on the fly.

I was worried that this episode was a bit too dry, but personally, dorsal vagina was so funny I think it makes up for it.

[MilwaukeeJoe]

In the Gencon games I used to run under 3.5, I would use spellpoints instead of having wizards memorize spells.

Is that a house rule or a mod?

[jcm]

In the Gencon games I used to run under 3.5, I would use spellpoints instead of having wizards memorize spells.

Is that a house rule or a mod?

I'd call it a mod. Since it's replacing a core mechanic.

(A 3.5 house rule would be something like "no ecl races" or "bastard sword is covered by martial proficiency rather than exotic")

[Shaun]

I'll put myself firmly in the con-dice-fudging camp. I also don't use screens in any games.

Also, dorsal vagina is my new phrase of the day.

Also also, rock on with the atheism, Zeke.

[Zeke]

actually, all three of us are atheists.

[MilwaukeeJoe]

I'll put myself firmly in the con-dice-fudging camp. I also don't use screens in any games.

Same here, I don't fudge dice.. and also roll them in front of the screen (if I use one). I find the players enjoy watching to see what I (as DM) roll...

Although, one could say I do fudge die rolls by including the "chocolate rules"
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2258.0

Hmmm....

[Shaun]

actually, all three of us are atheists.

Dammit, you're like our evil twins. Except the three of us on TMD are pretty much evil ourselves. I guess that just makes us the less funny twins.

[jimmersault]

I was under the impression that 'modding' and 'house ruling' should be a subset of a single category as they mix so much. Didn't seem like they needed to be differentiated for the purpose of the 'cast.

I do use GM fiat/ die fudging as a method to keep the game flowing in the direction I prefer for fun purposes without breaking up the game flow. I could just hand wave the encounter instead of actually rolling it through, but I'd hate to make the players wait for a chance for action. If it gets too hairy, I gloss over a death/wounding that would be inconvenient. It's sad to have a PC die in a mugging when the action is waiting at the opera house.

Just saying.

James

[SixthDeclension]

Is there any way one could get just the soundbit of your commercial? I think it would be a mighty nice thing to put on my facebook and such.

[Talen Lee]

Dude, meg digs hentai? Awesome.

Wait, she also likes Joss Whedon. Hrm.

[Josh]

I was under the impression that 'modding' and 'house ruling' should be a subset of a single category as they mix so much. Didn't seem like they needed to be differentiated for the purpose of the 'cast.

The distinction is important to make for the future, that is why we were trying to be clear.

These terms come from a much larger list of terms and ideas for future shows.

I do use GM fiat/ die fudging as a method to keep the game flowing in the direction I prefer for fun purposes without breaking up the game flow. I could just hand wave the encounter instead of actually rolling it through, but I'd hate to make the players wait for a chance for action. If it gets too hairy, I gloss over a death/wounding that would be inconvenient. It's sad to have a PC die in a mugging when the action is waiting at the opera house.

Just saying.

James

I recommend trying some more modern games.  I think you will be surprised.

[bhu]

The Gameologists are pro-choice atheists  +1

Meg likes Hentai  Definite +1

Wait, are you sure you're really a girl?  Zeke and Josh do banter an awful lot bout "ladies"....



I find myself in the awkward position of agreeing with most of what the 3 of you said in this sode.  Awkward because being a stubborn, irascible bastard I take pride in being somewhat disagreeable.  But I also have run into GM fiat waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to often in the games I play in, and it's nearly led to my quitting the hobby many times.  Then again there have been times where I almost considered it appropriate because players were being difficult ("I'm bored.  Screw all this diplomacy crap between the humans and orcs.  They should be fighting.  Im gonna knock the Kings daughter to the ground and poop on her, and then throw fireballs at random into both sides.").  But then you probably don't need fiat  to take care of that if you can just stare silently at him long enough so that he gets the idea that you think he's lost his mind...

It helps to have gotten the other players to agree to do it with you beforehand ("Okay tonight when Randy goes Chaotic Stupid, we all stare quietly for, like, 5 minutes straight no matter what he says").


One minor nitpick: The GM is God thing has been around since Basic. People were doing it regularly even then.  The whole Rule 0 thing just let some people try to justify it.

[jcm]

Dude, meg digs hentai? Awesome.

Wait, she also likes Joss Whedon. Hrm.

Hmm, you had the exact opposite reaction from me. Whedon fanboyism=awesome, hentai=yikes.

(It's not that I have anything against the good hentai brimming with anime schoolgirl lesbians, but dickgirls and tentacles kind of freak me out)

[Talen Lee]

Dude, meg digs hentai? Awesome.

Wait, she also likes Joss Whedon. Hrm.

Hmm, you had the exact opposite reaction from me. Whedon fanboyism=awesome, hentai=yikes.

(It's not that I have anything against the good hentai brimming with anime schoolgirl lesbians, but dickgirls and tentacles kind of freak me out)

Sissy. It takes someone secure in his sexuality to look at a dickgirl and go 'Huh. That doesn't appeal, but it doesn't bother me any more than any of the other ugly bastards I watch diddle girls on TV.'

Here's something Yahtzee suggested: Pick your favourite line in any Whedon work. Then try to find a Whedon character who couldn't have uttered that line.

[Meg]

(It's not that I have anything against the good hentai brimming with anime schoolgirl lesbians, but dickgirls and tentacles kind of freak me out)

Oh I agree.  Tentacles is where I draw the line.

[Meg]

Here's something Yahtzee suggested: Pick your favourite line in any Whedon work. Then try to find a Whedon character who couldn't have uttered that line.

Do you have a reference for that?  I love Yahtzee.