Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Stratagems

[Gnorman]

Hi there,

Is a two-level dip into paladin for Divine Grace worth it for the sorcerer?  The downside is slower spell progression (and maybe burning a feat on Practiced Spellcaster), the upside is ridiculous saving throws rather earlier than high-level spells. 

Associated Q's

1. If taking this dip is worth it, when is a good time to do so?  Levels 2 and 3 to get it over with?  Maybe 5 and 8 to get 2nd and 3rd-level spells first?
2. I'm not really fond of casting shield first thing in combat, would wearing a mithril buckler be better than using the 1st combat round on a defensive buff?  Even if it wasn't a +3 mithril buckler yet?

I just found this forum from the wreckage of the old Wizards 3.5 CO forum.  Nice job guys!

Though I didn't write the guide, I do feel compelled to chime in here.

I don't think the Paladin dip is worth it from a mechanical perspective. What's the cardinal rule of spellcasters? Thou shalt not lose caster levels (unless you get something really good out of it). Setting back your already-delayed caster progression is going to really hurt in the long run. Saves are easily boosted by spells (Superior Resistance, for example, gives a +6 bonus to all for 24 hours) or items (Cloaks/Vests of Resistance are fairly cheap). Better to spend gold or get the cleric to buff you than to slow down your progress through the mysterium arcane. Though your charisma may be sky high, optimizing your saves over your caster level is, I think, a mistake.

So, for #1, my answer would be "This dip is not worth it, so never take it."

As for #2: Mithril bucklers, even mundane ones, might as well be wielded by a sorcerer as they don't impose any armor check penalty or spell failure. The penalty for non-proficiency is nonexistent. Strap one on and go to town.

[PhaedrusXY]

To further chime in...

I'd take Mage Armor over Shield as a spell known, because of the duration, and then get the buckler. Or if you can afford it, get a suit of armor with 0% ASF and drop Mage Armor as a spell known, also.

If you want a higher AC starting out, be a kobold. They get a +1 from size and another +1 from natural armor, and they're the best sorcerers anyway, if you can stomach the cheese. The desert kobold variant also doesn't have the annoying -2 Con.

[Gnorman]

To further chime in...

I'd take Mage Armor over Shield as a spell known, because of the duration, and then get the buckler. Or if you can afford it, get a suit of armor with 0% ASF and drop Mage Armor as a spell known, also.

A +1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt has no ASF, no check penalties, and gives +6 AC, for the low low price of 5,100 GP.

[Solo]

Hi there,

Is a two-level dip into paladin for Divine Grace worth it for the sorcerer?  The downside is slower spell progression (and maybe burning a feat on Practiced Spellcaster), the upside is ridiculous saving throws rather earlier than high-level spells. 

If you want saving throws, use Ruin Delver's Fortune.

I like 2 levels of paladin for my sorcerer gishes, but from a strictly mechanical perspective, it is inferior to having new spells know. That being said, you can make a nice gish out of a Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champ5/Sacred Exorcist8 if you so desire.

Associated Q's

1. If taking this dip is worth it, when is a good time to do so?  Levels 2 and 3 to get it over with?  Maybe 5 and 8 to get 2nd and 3rd-level spells first?
2. I'm not really fond of casting shield first thing in combat, would wearing a mithril buckler be better than using the 1st combat round on a defensive buff?  Even if it wasn't a +3 mithril buckler yet?

1. Right at the beginning. More HP and etc.
2. Well, Abjurant Champion will let you cast Shield as a swift action, and extend it for free, so it's not that bad, but a Mithril Buckler will allow you to have nice enchantments on it such as Soulfire and whatnot.

[A_Shadow_of_Life]

Just a spell worth mentioning if you are going to take Scorching Ray and don't mind a better version that deals electricity damage.. go with Shocking Spark. Same as scorching ray except..

6th lvl for second ray, 10th for third, same damage.. and x3 on a crit. Might give +3 to hit armored foes too, not sure.. it's in Dragonlance Campaign Setting

[Solo]

Interesting. That puts it in direct competition with Seeking Ray, which I enjoy because it gives +4 to attacks with other rays after you hit with it, and ignores concealment.

[cru]

The DL spell actually gives the +3 attack AND x3 on a critical vs foes with metal. Another difference from scorching ray is that it has "Target: One creature or object", so all rays target the same person/thing. Also, it has a material component (no price).

[A_Shadow_of_Life]

I'm okay wit as I get to force lightning somebody :D:D

Besides the only one target though, it's GOLD!

[McPoyo]

I'm okay wit as I get to force lightning somebody :D:D

Besides the only one target though, it's GOLD!

Split Ray, Twin Spell. 3 rays against up to 4 targets each. Not as good as 12 rays independently targeted within 30 feet, but it's got attack bonuses and crit bonuses against armor wearers, so, theoretically, at that point, it's better, assuming there's not something else I'm missing.

[A_Shadow_of_Life]

OotS?

[carnivore]

OotS?

"Order of the Stick" ... web comic

 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Still think that the OP should include a mention of telekinesis being able to violent thrust your problems away

[Solo]

Telekinesis is mentioned as being able to effect various combat maneuvers and thrust people into things such as Prismatic Spheres.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Yes, but going stabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstabstab isn't technically a "combat maneuver".

[Solo]

Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer

Recommended changes to the Sorcerer class. (Also, Shneeky helped)

4 skill points/level
K. Dungeoneering, Planes, and Religion, and UMD added as class skills.
Free Eschew Materials (level 1)
Cha to saves vs spells and SLA (level 3)
Free metamagic feat (level 5)
Spontaneous Magic (level 8)
Cha to AC as a deflection bonus, Free metamagic feat (level 10)
Cantrips at will (level 12)
First level spells at will, Free metamagic feat (level 15)
Second level spells at will (level 18)
Sorcerous Spell Resistance, Free metamagic feat (level 20)


Spontaneous Magic
The sorcerer gains the ability to cast Prestidigitation, spell X, and expend a spell slot of level Y so as to modify spell X so that it functions like a sorcerer spell of Y level that shares the same school and subschool as spell X.

A Silent Image modified with this ability would be able to mimic a Major Image, at a cost of a 0th, 1st, and 3rd level spell slot.

This ability can be used 1+Int mod times per day. The mimicked spell will have a 1 round casting time at minimum, and a duration of either 1 round/level or instantaneous, whichever would make more sense. No metamagic may be applied to this spell.

Sorcerous Spell Resistance
The sorcerer gains spell resistance equal to 10 + hit dice, and can raise or lower it as a free action.

Explanations:
Skill points: Sorcerers couldn't even have enough skill points to cover their bases before without being human and having at least a 12 in Int.
Skills: Sorcerers are the ones who are going out to adventure. They might not know about history and the like, but they should be familiar with useful knowledge to identify the monsters they may encounter. UMD is there for obvious reasons.
Eschew Materials: Obvious.
Cha to saves vs spells and SLA: Force of Personality, baby!
Free Metamagic feat: Sorcerers are all about metamagic.
Spontaneous Magic: Sorcerers do it spontaneously.
Cha to AC as a deflection bonus: Putting Charisma to use.
Spells at will: I'm sure it's exploitable, somehow, but it seems like so much fun. Besides, at the level you get these abilities you can buy enough wands that you effectively have lower level spells at will anyways.
Sorcerous Spell Resistance: You have SR. And it doesn't interfere with buffing.

[McPoyo]

I'm a little confused on the mechanics of the Spontaneous Magic thing, there. How do you determine the slots? Is it 0, the level of the spell you are using to be modified, and then the level of the spell you are trying to imitate, or is there another formula I'm missing?

[Solo]

That's basically it.

[Solo]

Update: Sand Shaper Psychic Reformation trick now noted.

[CantripN]

I'd like to note that Fiend-Blooded is a lot better than you think!

Some examples of Fiendish Sorcery:
3rd - Delay Death
6th - Snowsong = +4 CHA, +4 AC, +4 Attack, Fast Healing 1, Cold Resistance 15, +1d6 Cold Damage.
7th - Triple Mask
8th - Death Ward (Mass)
9th - Weighed in the Balance
9th - Monstrous Thrall

Even if I'm tight for feats and levels, a 2 level dip for Snowsong is almost always worth it, and by then 1 more level is +1 CHA and yet another is Triple Mask (which is Project Image on steroids!).

[Solo]

I already said Fiend Blooded was pretty good...

Oh, I see what you did there.