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Author Topic: Out of Character -- Technical Discussion  (Read 16577 times)
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AlisAtAn
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« Reply #320 on: October 15, 2008, 12:21:43 PM »

Sounds like a 2lvl chameleon dip is in order for amalcon. Assume supernatural that you can repick every day? Yes please. Regarding that. Are there any houserules for that feat? I seem to remember something. If not I`ll probably be using it myself for my floating feat.
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Odin, Feral Shifter Feral Shifter. "Can I drown the dead rat now?"
Loke, Dread Magnate "Me all good and nice. Ask any questions and I`ll kill you twice."


DnD classes is kind of like art. You make lots of stuff that everyone loves but aint no fun to play. This one is like getting a nude pic of Britney Spears when she was hot above your bed.  Anyone can appreciate it. And it works as it should in practise, not just in theory. -Me to Strato regarding his Elemental
fil kearney
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« Reply #321 on: October 15, 2008, 12:57:17 PM »

assume super is accessible in epic.
but he'd still have to figger out the outsider bit. 
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AlisAtAn
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« Reply #322 on: October 15, 2008, 12:59:30 PM »

There`s always Otherworldly. Since you removed all fluff and racial req`s, its pretty much up for grabs...
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Odin, Feral Shifter Feral Shifter. "Can I drown the dead rat now?"
Loke, Dread Magnate "Me all good and nice. Ask any questions and I`ll kill you twice."


DnD classes is kind of like art. You make lots of stuff that everyone loves but aint no fun to play. This one is like getting a nude pic of Britney Spears when she was hot above your bed.  Anyone can appreciate it. And it works as it should in practise, not just in theory. -Me to Strato regarding his Elemental
Omen of Peace
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« Reply #323 on: October 15, 2008, 01:05:45 PM »

Otherworldly works for Polymorph (because you can change into a creature of your type) but not Wildshape.

edit: Fil, that's an Aberration, not an Outsider so he can adopt the form... And Dualplanar is Ex.
But the ability implies that the main body is already on the Ethereal. That's a DM call.

@amalcon: Exalted Wildshape (BoED) will give you the blink dog shape which can Dimension Door once per round as a free action. Damn useful. (You do get the Su abilities with EW.)
Dragon Wildshape (Drac) will get you some dragon forms that can planeshift (it also gives you Su abilities but restricts the size).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 01:22:14 PM by Omen of Peace » Logged

Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
amalcon
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« Reply #324 on: October 15, 2008, 02:20:52 PM »

Amalcon:
Quote
Partial Etherealness (Su): A dharculus can exist partially on both the Ethereal plane and the Material plane. While the dharculus is on the Ethereal plane, it can shift any and all of its mawed tentacles onto the Material plane as a free action, and shift any or all of them back again as a move equivalent action. Only creatures on the Material plane can attack the tentacles while they are on the Material plane. With its tentacles, the dharculus can drag along any being that failed its saving throw against the ethereal snare attack, as well as any being that does not resist (including unconscious or dead characters). This ability is otherwise identical with ethereal jaunt cast by a 15th level sorcerer.
-MMF does not get Outsider: how have you gotten darculus on the menu?
-MMF gets (EX): do you have something that grants you (su) abilities in alternate forms that I have overlooked? Druid and MMF themselves do not.
Funny; the page I looked at had them as aberrations (which MMF gets) with the (ex) Dualplanar ability making them ethereal.  If this game contains a different version, that's OK -- as I said, they're pretty cheesetastic as it is.
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fil kearney
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« Reply #325 on: October 15, 2008, 02:45:12 PM »

this is my bad.

I was looking at creature catalog excerpt for the same critter, not the wotc link.  :rolleyes
completely different mechanics, same name.

So here are the relavent mechanics now..
Quote
Dualplanar (Ex): The bulk of a dharculus's body resides on the Ethereal Plane, but the monster possesses the capacity to insert or remove its mawed tentacle ends into or out of the Material Plane as a standard action. Creatures that are stuck on the Material Plane find it difficult but not impossible to target the dharculus. Because the monster is dual-planar and therefore exists partially on the Material Plane while its tentacles are inserted, its foes on the Material Plane can attack the creature as if it had cover, and so it gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class and a +2 bonus on Reflex saves. A dharculus can take a standard action to remove its tentacles from the Material Plane, allowing it to effectively retreat completely into the Ethereal Plane.

1st off... sorry I looked at the wrong reference.  I'm on track now.
2nd... yes, talman has every ability to duplicate dhar and use it's (albeit poorly labelled) ex abilities. (ethereal jaunt is SU)
3rd... I am NOT contesting his right to do so... though see below.*
Quote
Notes: This thing's cheesetastic, so I'd rather not use it in general.  It's the only way I know of to hit ethereal, though, so I'll make an exception.
I celebrate creativity, but not combing splat books.  If you are thinking, "man, this is cheezy"... I would really caution against it. Smile If you are uncertain, ask first.  God knows this game moves slow enough that there is plenty of time to have a good solution.


*I am issuing a word of caution:
When I designed this encounter, I was pretty damn certain that owain could give you all a one way trip to the ethereal once per day with no way back.... and that you would consider this a dumb idea.
I also figured that Elia was the only one in the party at this level who could be there and retreat... but fighting a swarm of AoO undead is generally bad tactics... so probably not gonna happen either.  
Retreat or ignore were the only choices I anticipated.  

It is a standard action to move to and from the ethereal for these things... assuming we are liberal in translating their ability to include their whole body, and not just the tentacles.  I believe it is a standard action still for you to change forms? if a move action, you can switch to etheral and end your round in their midst, or you can change form, flop across the prime floor and next round go ethereal and move again if you wish.  
You're choice is pretty simple:
1. go ethereal and be horribly slaughtered, become undead spawn, and take your character and the game in a unique new direction.
2. go with your initial gut feeling, retcon your post to skip the cheeze and stay with the team.
3. give me some options.  

I've been caught off guard by splat skimming, which generally pisses me off... so my apologies.  You have done nothing wrong from a rules perspective.  Lemme know what you'd like to do here before either of us continue posting.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 02:53:29 PM by fil kearney » Logged

amalcon
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« Reply #326 on: October 15, 2008, 02:58:16 PM »

2. go with your initial gut feeling and skip the cheeze.
Yeah, OK.  If you'd prefer I left this form out, I can do that.  I'd probably never use it except against ethereal stuff anyway, because six bites are a little much.

We should probably work out some kind of source limitation for forms like we did for spells.  Say, Monstrous Manuals only without special preparation?  That would probably make it easier on both of us.

@Omen: I've considered Exalted Wildshape and Dragon Wildshape, but in the end I decided that just shaping Blink Shirt gives most of what I wanted from Exalted Wildshape.  I'm considering Dragon Wildshape for later, but I've got an extra chakra bind I need to open up a home for; that will probably take up Talman's level 15 feat.  Maybe at level 18.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 03:04:08 PM by amalcon » Logged
Omen of Peace
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« Reply #327 on: October 15, 2008, 04:07:43 PM »

Oh, right. I just mentioned them without taking a look at your sheet.
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Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
DaveTheMagicWeasel
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« Reply #328 on: October 15, 2008, 06:25:34 PM »

Errrr.... so are we retconning this or not?  I'm lost Confused

And fil, Shadow Walk takes us to the Plane of Shadow - are you saying that's the same as the ethereal in your cosmology (as written it takes 1d4 hours to travel to a plane other than shadow via Shadow Walk)?  Coz if so I didn't realise that (stuff like this is why I was asking about the Ghost Touch weapons).  Regardless, as said, I can't bring us back till the next day, so I was intending to leave Shadow Walk as an escape mechanism - since we would be moving at such a great relative speed on the Plane of Shadow - if/when we need to run away from these things.



However, I do have a way for Owain to at least do something to them:

1. Phase Cloak makes me ethereal during my movement.
2. I use that movement to provoke AoOs by passing the spirits.
3. Double Hit + Robilar's then gives me 2 AoOs when they try and attack me, and since they happen while I'm moving, I'm ethereal so can hit the spirits with them.

Otherwise, shenanigans with immediate actions - i.e. move into ethereal, then use Abrupt Jaunt to interrupt my own action and trigger a Shadow Pounce before I return to the material.  Only 1 full-attack per round doing that though Sad

On the downside, I'm getting attacked whenever I do this, and it won't take much intelligence for them to simply stop taking the AoOs.



But regardless of all that, so far all they've done is poke us ineffectually and spook a dinosaur.  Personally, I'm not at the point of swinging for them yet - it'll just antagonise them when for all we know they are simply passing through.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 06:33:42 PM by DaveTheMagicWeasel » Logged

fil kearney
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« Reply #329 on: October 15, 2008, 10:13:50 PM »

Th only hing that would need retconning is
1. instead of talman choosing to shift to dhar, he simply follos along towards the exit as others have
2. if you ant we can go back and find a better solution to the trap, snince you are looking to retreat down the tunnel with the closed trap door.

#1 amalcon has already volunteered for...
#2 isn't that important to me or the poot really.. disable device will pop it open like any other trap... that can be done if you actually go all the way back.  No biggie, really (though still unexplained... if this were a a trap to keep people in with the undead, it would have triggered on this side, not the other, right?)

everything else is fine and as expected.  whoo.  new game jitters real bad on this one, eh?

BTW, nice shenanigans, Dave. I've ot no prolem with their use at all.. but you already identified te risk.  sometimes that will come in handy.

RE: shadow walk:
I had mentioned thi specifically in the other game, but not surprising that it would have been missed.
sHADOWWALK CAN AND DOES ALLOW YOU TO GO TRAIPSING THROUGH THE SPIRIT WORLD (SHADOW, ETHERAL AND OTHER "BORDER": LANES ARE ALL IN THE SAME HERE).  You can use it to simply transport everyone to the spirit world, and then end the effect with you there, or you can use it for travel purposes as written... you DO have to conform to the topography of the spirit world, though... so currently you'd have to travel down the tunnel one way or the other, and end up.... somewhere. If you don't have "open road" you can't just "decide" where you go. you have to navigate the spirit world, though you may be able to dip into the beyond to, say, get out of this tunnel... but that will probably take you close to  neg energy plane,/hell/abyss/othe bad places(TM) in the process... kinda gambling.. and you can have randonm encounters, and other terrain challenges along the way. (I typically plan for such solutions)
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DaveTheMagicWeasel
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« Reply #330 on: October 16, 2008, 06:21:59 PM »

Oh no, I'm not asking for a retcon - I'm happy to carry on as we are - I just wanted to clarify what we were doing is all.

And I had missed that about Shadow Walk.
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fil kearney
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« Reply #331 on: October 16, 2008, 07:11:03 PM »

shadow walk is fantastic with this cosmology.  Makes TSL considerably more interesting, Methinks. 

I think I owe a post... I"ve been slammed RL.  Getting married on Sunday.
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AlisAtAn
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« Reply #332 on: October 16, 2008, 07:44:20 PM »

Well, congrats on that! Will you be going on a long honeymoon?
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Odin, Feral Shifter Feral Shifter. "Can I drown the dead rat now?"
Loke, Dread Magnate "Me all good and nice. Ask any questions and I`ll kill you twice."


DnD classes is kind of like art. You make lots of stuff that everyone loves but aint no fun to play. This one is like getting a nude pic of Britney Spears when she was hot above your bed.  Anyone can appreciate it. And it works as it should in practise, not just in theory. -Me to Strato regarding his Elemental
Omen of Peace
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Posts: 1053


Wise Madman


« Reply #333 on: October 16, 2008, 07:50:12 PM »

Then I believe congratulations are in order.  Big Grin

 Bounce Bounce Bounce
 
 Angel
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Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
amalcon
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« Reply #334 on: October 17, 2008, 09:33:38 AM »

Getting married on Sunday.
Wow, congrats!  Don't worry about any delays; getting married takes up a lot of time, and is a much bigger deal than any game.
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DaveTheMagicWeasel
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« Reply #335 on: October 17, 2008, 04:49:48 PM »

Congrats fil!
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Omen of Peace
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Wise Madman


« Reply #336 on: October 30, 2008, 06:35:13 PM »

Yay for crappy rolls !
Religion 17 ; Planes 15

Meriabo, we need you...
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Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
Judging Eagle
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« Reply #337 on: October 30, 2008, 08:21:57 PM »

Yay for crappy rolls !
Religion 17 ; Planes 15

Meriabo, we need you...

Those rolls.... just ... ouch.

On the other hand, your modifiers aren't all too crazy. Considering all the characters are over level 10.

Which makes me have to think of what I'd do to make Rolf for this game.

fil kearney, what's the interpretation on the spellcraft check needed to understand a scroll made by a spell-book using caster (like a wizard) (do they then understand what spell the scroll is of? Also, what about the the spellcraft check needed to write the spell down?

Do rules on understanding scrolls and then writing down the spell contained allow the adding of spells to a spellbook user's spellbook?

Somehow I've got a feeling that a wizard/rogue or archivist/rogue would best recreate my old Eberron character.
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Omen of Peace
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Wise Madman


« Reply #338 on: October 30, 2008, 08:34:41 PM »

We don't have a full-time knowledge monkey but Meriabo will be better than her (and he's got the 1/day/skill Factotum boost). Look at her Intimidate modifier if you want to see more optimization. Smile

The rules to add a wizard/archivist spell to your spellbook/prayerbook from a scroll are pretty standard and I'm sure fil follows them.

Quote
Arcane Magical Writings

To record an arcane spell in written form, a character uses complex notation that describes the magical forces involved in the spell. The writer uses the same system no matter what her native language or culture. However, each character uses the system in her own way. Another person’s magical writing remains incomprehensible to even the most powerful wizard until she takes time to study and decipher it.

To decipher an arcane magical writing (such as a single spell in written form in another’s spellbook or on a scroll), a character must make a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + the spell’s level). If the skill check fails, the character cannot attempt to read that particular spell again until the next day. A read magic spell automatically deciphers a magical writing without a skill check. If the person who created the magical writing is on hand to help the reader, success is also automatic.

[...]

Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll

A wizard can also add a spell to her book whenever she encounters one on a magic scroll or in another wizard’s spellbook. No matter what the spell’s source, the wizard must first decipher the magical writing (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Next, she must spend a day studying the spell. At the end of the day, she must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell’s level). A wizard who has specialized in a school of spells gains a +2 bonus on the Spellcraft check if the new spell is from her specialty school. She cannot, however, learn any spells from her prohibited schools. If the check succeeds, the wizard understands the spell and can copy it into her spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook, below). The process leaves a spellbook that was copied from unharmed, but a spell successfully copied from a magic scroll disappears from the parchment.

If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. She cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until she gains another rank in Spellcraft. A spell that was being copied from a scroll does not vanish from the scroll.
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Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
Judging Eagle
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« Reply #339 on: October 31, 2008, 02:13:24 PM »

Ok, I just want to be clear about that.

Because some people seem to get into a hissy-fit when a wizard starts casting Cure Light Wounds, or whatever. I can do the dumpster-diving for divine spells, and I have done this in the past, but this just saves time and effort. It also lets me be more relaxed. The harder I have to work at optimizing a character, the more I want them to be powerful.

I'm thinking that something like a .... "Something"//Archivist might be a useful character for this sort of game. Lots of skill points and class-reccomeneded specialization for intelligence, plus options for in-combat and out of combat things.

Also, I know that 6th lvl spells are the cap, but would simply allowing higher level spell slots being used for lower level spells be alright?

As in, a full caster that is level 14 has 2 level 7 slots; would using them to prepare 6th level spells be alright? I'm just not so keen on having to multiclass out of a class that is part of a character unless there are roleplay reasons to do so. Taking specialized training is different imo, but actually abandoning training isn't the same.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2008, 02:27:16 PM by Judging Eagle » Logged

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