http://brilliantgameologists.com
May 22, 2013, 05:16:58 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: These boards are now READ ONLY. We've started over! So don't try posting here. Go here www.minmaxboards.com
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Weighing options for a melee-centric build in 3.5  (Read 4763 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2008, 05:40:25 PM »

as for Powers.... id suggest this:

1st lvl:
Expansion
Precognition, Offensive

2nd lvl:
Detect Hostile Intent or Strength of my Enemy

3rd lvl:
Vampiric Weapon

4th lvl:
Steadfast Perception

5th lvl:
Oak Body



Are you forgetting how totally bad ass of a power hustle is?  Let me be more specific.

@OP: here is your power list:
1 Expansion, Empty Mind (shore up that will save when not raging), maybe Precognition, Offensive (in place of empty mind)
2 Hustle
3 Dimension Slide (utility)
4 Truevenom Weapon (con damage!)
5 Psychofeedback(totally bad ass nova capability) or Oak Body (terrible power for combat, but the immunities are good if you can't get them in other places)
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
anomalousman
That monkey with the orange ass cheeks
****
Posts: 253


« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2008, 08:36:53 PM »

Definitely expansion.  And make sure to take the Goliath Barbarian substitution level at first level.  Mountain rage is a spare +2 strength and you get true large size rather than powerful build.  Then expansion will eventually get you to gargantuan.

Which means improved grapple as a late feat is a good idea, too.

However, note that Barbarian and War mind have opposing alignment restrictions.
Logged
Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2008, 10:01:14 PM »

Definitely expansion.  And make sure to take the Goliath Barbarian substitution level at first level.  Mountain rage is a spare +2 strength and you get true large size rather than powerful build.  Then expansion will eventually get you to gargantuan.

Which means improved grapple as a late feat is a good idea, too.

However, note that Barbarian and War mind have opposing alignment restrictions.
There is a technical problem I just noticed:
Mountain rage explicitly makes you large sized rather than grow a size catagory.
While raging you can't manifest expansion.

Expansion => Rage technically wouldn't work, but RAI it totally should.

Furthermore, the alignments work for neutral.  NG, TN, and NE all work.
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
AndyJames
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 3112


Meep?


« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2008, 11:19:40 PM »

One *fun* build I like to play with is Duskblade 5/Dragon Disciple 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Green Star Adept 4.

You get +10 to Str, IIRC, which you then pump into the EWM Uncanny Blow ability on a +1 spellstoring Tiger Skull Club. Have your arcane caster cast Vampiric Touch on this bad boy and enhance it with Greater Mighty Wallop. Power Attack is gravy.
Logged
Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2008, 11:30:27 PM »

One *fun* build I like to play with is Duskblade 5/Dragon Disciple 10/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Green Star Adept 4.

You get +10 to Str, IIRC, which you then pump into the EWM Uncanny Blow ability on a +1 spellstoring Tiger Skull Club. Have your arcane caster cast Vampiric Touch on this bad boy and enhance it with Greater Mighty Wallop. Power Attack is gravy.
Only 16 bab iirc, 7th level duskblade casting (weak), +10 str, and no class abilities that really matter.  I prefer the warhulk with a skillful weapon method myself.

(yes, I know that 14/20 levels are straight up underpowered classes)
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
AndyJames
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 3112


Meep?


« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2008, 11:37:24 PM »

Dude. My build is 20 levels of underpowered. It is just for the fun of thumping someone for 2x Str bonus damage

If you want an overpowered melee build, try Half-Ogre Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/some cleric PrC 10/some other PrC 3

Persistent Righteous Might + Divine Power:
Huge size
30ft reach with spiked chain
Cleric Spells
Logged
Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2008, 11:39:42 PM »

Dude. My build is 20 levels of underpowered. It is just for the fun of thumping someone for 2x Str bonus
Naw, duskblade and EWM are pretty decent.  Not great, but decent.
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
carnivore
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1671


« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2008, 06:43:14 AM »

Are you forgetting how totally bad ass of a power hustle is?  Let me be more specific.

@OP: here is your power list:
1 Expansion, Empty Mind (shore up that will save when not raging), maybe Precognition, Offensive (in place of empty mind)
2 Hustle
3 Dimension Slide (utility)
4 Truevenom Weapon (con damage!)
5 Psychofeedback(totally bad ass nova capability) or Oak Body (terrible power for combat, but the immunities are good if you can't get them in other places)

no ,... i know what Hustle can do, and i know its limitations as well .... for this build it is not a good choice, your power choices are good for a single encounter with nothing left for the rest of the day....heres why:

Goliath (+1 LA) / Barbarian 4 / Fighter 2 / War Mind 5

16 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 8 CHA

he has 25 PP to spend .... now assuming 3 Encounters per day... that gives him a little more than 7 PP to spend on each encounter.... if he Dimension Slides once per encounter he has spent more than half the PP for that encounter and cant even spend the additional PP without shorting himself later for other encounters.

it is better to have some Long duration Buffs rather than single round buffs

1st lvl:
Expansion........................... long duration... boost damage output
Precognition, Offensive..........short duration, will last the encounter

2nd lvl:
Detect Hostile Intent or Strength of my Enemy...... Detect hostile intent will keep you from being surprised, very long duration(5 hours)

3rd lvl:
Vampiric Weapon ................. heal self while you fight, will last the encounter

4th lvl:
Steadfast Perception ............ boost detection, and can see Invisible things, long duration

5th lvl:
Oak Body ........................... boost defenses, long duration



Bugeting PP is far better to make Practical Builds than Nova tactics

 Big Grin
Logged

Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2008, 07:28:07 AM »

Are you forgetting how totally bad ass of a power hustle is?  Let me be more specific.

@OP: here is your power list:
1 Expansion, Empty Mind (shore up that will save when not raging), maybe Precognition, Offensive (in place of empty mind)
2 Hustle
3 Dimension Slide (utility)
4 Truevenom Weapon (con damage!)
5 Psychofeedback(totally bad ass nova capability) or Oak Body (terrible power for combat, but the immunities are good if you can't get them in other places)

no ,... i know what Hustle can do, and i know its limitations as well .... for this build it is not a good choice, your power choices are good for a single encounter with nothing left for the rest of the day....heres why:

Goliath (+1 LA) / Barbarian 4 / Fighter 2 / War Mind 5

16 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 8 CHA

he has 25 PP to spend .... now assuming 3 Encounters per day... that gives him a little more than 7 PP to spend on each encounter.... if he Dimension Slides once per encounter he has spent more than half the PP for that encounter and cant even spend the additional PP without shorting himself later for other encounters.

it is better to have some Long duration Buffs rather than single round buffs

1st lvl:
Expansion........................... long duration... boost damage output
Precognition, Offensive..........short duration, will last the encounter
Huh?
Quote from: Carnivore
2nd lvl:
Detect Hostile Intent or Strength of my Enemy...... Detect hostile intent will keep you from being surprised, very long duration(5 hours)
Quote from: SRD
Strength of My Enemy
Psychometabolism
Level: Psychic warrior 2
Display: Visual; see text
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Power Points: 3

You gain the ability to siphon away your enemy’s strength for your own use. One of your natural or manufactured weapons becomes the instrument of your desire, and deals 1 point of Strength damage on each successful hit. You gain that point of Strength as an enhancement bonus to your Strength score. Strength you siphon from different foes is tracked separately—the total siphoned from each individual foe is considered a separate enhancement bonus to your Strength (maximum +8), and you gain only the highest total.

Augment
You can augment this power in one or both of the following ways.

For every 3 additional power points you spend, the maximum enhancement bonus you can add to your Strength increases by 2.
If you spend 6 additional power points, you can manifest this power as a swift action

Detect Hostile Intent
Telepathy [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Psion/wilder 2, psychic warrior 2
Display: Olfactory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: 30-ft.-radius emanation centered on you
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 3

While the duration of this power lasts, you become aware of the presence of any creatures with hostile intent within 30 feet of you, and their direction from you (but not their specific location). The power detects active aggression, as opposed to vigilance. In addition, while this power is active you cannot be surprised or caught flat-footed by creatures that are susceptible to mind-affecting powers.

While under the effect of this power, you can make Sense Motive checks as a free action against anyone within 30 feet of you.

The power can penetrate barriers, but 3 feet of stone, 3 inches of common metal, 1 inch of lead, or 6 feet of wood or dirt blocks it.
Now, he's getting this power at level 11.  This is going to be a real bitch in four levels or less.
Quote from: Carnivore
3rd lvl:
Vampiric Weapon ................. heal self while you fight, will last the encounter
Quote from: SRD
Vampiric Blade
Psychometabolism
Level: Psychic warrior 3
Display: Material and visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 0 ft.
Target: One weapon you hold
Duration: 1 round/level
Power Points: 5

As claws of the vampire, except your weapon is affected as long as it remains in your grip or until this power’s duration expires.
Huh?
Quote from: Carnivore
4th lvl:
Steadfast Perception ............ boost detection, and can see Invisible things, long duration
Inferior to this and this in every way, but no big deal.  It's not like you can simply  use an item for the same action cost anyways.
Quote from: Carnivore
5th lvl:
Oak Body ........................... boost defenses, long duration
Quote from: SRD
Oak Body
Psychometabolism
Level: Psion/wilder 7, psychic warrior 5
Display: Auditory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Power Points: Psion/wilder 13, psychic warrior 9

This power transforms your body into living oak, which grants you several advantages.

You gain damage reduction 10/slashing and a +5 bonus to natural armor that overlaps (does not stack with) any natural armor bonus you may already have. You are immune to ability damage, blindness, deafness, disease, drowning, poison, stunning, and all powers, spells, or attacks that affect your physiology or respiration, because you have no physiology or respiration while this power is in effect.

You take only half damage from cold effects of all kinds. However, you become susceptible to all special attacks that affect wood, and you gain vulnerability to fire.

You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, but you take a -2 penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum Dexterity score of 1), and your speed is reduced to half normal. You can speak but cannot drink (and thus can’t use potions) or play wind instruments. You have an armor check penalty of -4 and an arcane spell failure chance of 25%.

Your unarmed attacks deal damage equal to a club sized for you (1d4 for Small characters, 1d6 for Medium characters), and you are considered armed when making unarmed attacks. When you make a full attack against an object or structure using your unarmed strike, you deal double damage.

Augment
For every additional power point you spend, this power’s duration increases by 1 minute.

Psychofeedback
Psychometabolism
Level: Egoist 5, psychic warrior 5
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Power Points: 9

You can readjust your body to boost one physical ability score at the expense of one or more other scores. Select one ability score you would like to boost, and increase it by the same amount that you decrease one or more other scores. All score decreases are treated as a special form of ability damage, called ability burn, which cannot be magically or psionically healed—it goes away only through natural healing.

You can boost your Strength, Dexterity or Constitution score by an amount equal to your manifester level (or any lesser amount), assuming you can afford to burn your other ability scores to such an extent.

When the duration of this power expires, your ability boost also ends, but your ability burn remains until it is healed naturally.
Let's see.  Lower AC, laughable DR, vulnerability to fire.  Pretty niche.  Only min/level means you need to not only know combat is coming up, but that the weaknesses of the power won't be weaknesses.  Little bit rare to see action.  That said, it is nice enough to consider due to the immunities.
Quote from: Carnivore
Bugeting PP is far better to make Practical Builds than Nova tactics

 Big Grin
Orly?

Anyways, weren't you supposed to be good with psionics?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 07:29:41 AM by ubernoob » Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
PhaedrusXY
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 8022


Advanced Spambot


« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2008, 12:43:31 PM »

While raging you can't manifest expansion.
Depending on the DM, Expanded Knowledge: Schism might get around that at the higher levels.

If you go with a long duration augment on Expansion, it won't help you though. (Which is what you should do, to conserve PPs.) I agree that it should work, and you should just talk to your DM about it.
Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
carnivore
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1671


« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2008, 05:50:19 PM »

allow me to explain:

his(pfooti) build looks like this(AS POSTED):

Goliath (+1 LA) / Barbarian 4 / Fighter 2 / War Mind 5

16 STR, 14 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 8 CHA before ajdustments(+4 Str,–2 Dex,+2 Con).... thus:

20 STR
12 DEX
16 CON
8 INT
14 WIS
8 CHA


Feats(includes flaw bonus feats):
Wild Talent
Skill Knowledge (Knowledge [Psionics]).
Power Attack
Imp Bull Rush
Knockback
Rampaging Bull Rush
Extra Rage
Cleave (Retrained to)
Improved Critical (Retrained to)
Iron Will (Otyugh Hole)
 
do you see Knowledge Devotion anywhere?.... NO, neither do i... if he takes Knowledge Devotion, then you are correct... he should pick a different Power(Vigor or Synesthete are both good choices)

but wait..... you suggest Knowledge Devotion... and his character would only gain a single Knowledge Skill as a Class Skill.... the feat would be next to Useless to him unless he met Psionic Creatures... not just that but he has an 8 Int... which gives him a -1 to skill points(28 ranks total.. which is horrible for a character with Knowledge Devotion and a single Knowledge Skill as a class skill) and Knowledge Skill checks.... at the least you should have suggested this:

Knowledge Devotion
Education(to get ALL Knowledge Skills as class skills)
Int 12 .... to have enough Skill ranks to at least make the attempt to make a skill check.... since Untrained... you will get max +1 insight to att and damage from Knowledge Devotion

but it looks like you didnt think that far did you?
Quote
Now, he's getting this power at level 11.  This is going to be a real bitch in four levels or less.
sure .... mindblank will stop Detect Hostile Intent from detecting that specific creature... but it wont prevent him from detecting all the others with him...

for that matter how many encounters from 11th lvl+ have Mindblank? ..... there are very Few.... how many creatures in the MM1, MM2, MM3, MM4, MM5, FF have Mindblank?   ..... not very many.........you have Flawed reasoning that suggests they are the norm rather than the exception

Detect Hostile Intent is a Very useful power to have and lasts a long time.... it can even be useful in social situations(Sense Motive as a Free action)
will it keep you from beig surprised in every situation?...NO, but it will help 95% of the time

Quote
Huh?(in response to Vampiric Weapon)

to help you understand why.... sometimes Player characters actually get hit and damaged in combat... this helps them to heal themselves.... the more they hit something, the more they heal themselves and it stacks with a Vampiric weapon enhancement .... if you Know another PW power that does this better.... just post it

it is far more efficient to heal yourself by hurting the enemy than to wait until combat is over for the Cleric to heal you....

Quote
Inferior to this and this in every way, but no big deal.  It's not like you can simply  use an item for the same action cost anyways.

ignorance of printed material is amazing..... Touchsight and True Seeing are very nice.... but they have limits that Steadfast Perception does not have.... the Range is line of Sight(as far as you can see) with Steadfast Perception

but wait thats not all..... WARMIND gives PW powers..... and Psychic Warriors do not have Touchsight or True Seeing on thier power list .... and as for Gem of Seeing... you can use it for 30 min/day.... for 7 PP you can use Steadfast Perception for 50 min/ manifestation
on top of that.... there are far better things to recomend for 75,000 gp than that
Quote
Let's see.  Lower AC, laughable DR, vulnerability to fire.  Pretty niche.  Only min/level means you need to not only know combat is coming up, but that the weaknesses of the power won't be weaknesses.  Little bit rare to see action.  That said, it is nice enough to consider due to the immunities.
and you suggest Psychofeedback as an Alternative? very bad.... have you looked at the Mental scores?... they are low enough already and you think they can be burned even lower..... Ability Burn takes a long time to Heal(cant be healed Psionicly or with Magic, Lost points return at a rate of 1 per day).. you think he should damage himself one day and recover the next couple of weeks before adventuring again.... that sir is very bad Buildcraft


Quote
Orly?(in response to:Bugeting PP is far better to make Practical Builds than Nova tactics)
yes really .... in real RPGs, with intelligent DMs, that have campaigns that are well thought out..... bugeting PP is a very good way to stay alive and help your party to also stay alive....... if all you play is Arena Combats.. then the build would be different, depending on how many combats per day you have.
it is a Poor suggestion to recomend Nova Build tactics for every build when it is not needed


rather than trying to shove a poorly thoughtout build that is Weak down the OPs throat and criticize others .... why not just work with what the OP has requested and think about how to make his idea work


 Big Grin
Logged

Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2008, 07:53:13 PM »

Wasting my time.
Are you by any chance related to Aelryinth?
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
Omen of Peace
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1053


Wise Madman


« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 08:34:12 PM »

Come on, guys ! You're both good CO citizens. Agree to disagree instead of belittling the guy who disagrees with you. 

@carnivore: Knowledge Devotion is strictly superior to Skill Knowledge <any one Knowledge>.
What ubernoob was also telling you is that many of the powers you suggested have a short duration, as well as an action cost.

@ubernoob: you were wrong about Touchsight & True Seeing. Or do you suggest spending an EK on one of them ?
Ability burn does suck badly. I wouldn't touch Psychofeedback pre-epic, except in campaigns with pretty infrequent encounters.

I'm sure I missed some stuff what with the 100 quotes. I'll let someone else take care of it. 
Logged

Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2008, 09:50:31 PM »

@ubernoob: you were wrong about Touchsight & True Seeing. Or do you suggest spending an EK on one of them ?
Ability burn does suck badly. I wouldn't touch Psychofeedback pre-epic, except in campaigns with pretty infrequent encounters.

I'm sure I missed some stuff what with the 100 quotes. I'll let someone else take care of it. 
I'm saying it is generally better to just wait for a better version.  There is a good way to get powers known, if expensive.

Frankly, all the fourth and fifth level psywar powers aren't amazing.
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
carnivore
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1671


« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2008, 05:50:46 AM »

Wasting my time.
Are you by any chance related to Aelryinth?
no , but i have answered your critique of my suggestion and have shown that your reasoning is incorrect .... i also have not disrespected you the way you Disrespect me... i address your opinion with reasonable responses and Facts

Come on, guys ! You're both good CO citizens. Agree to disagree instead of belittling the guy who disagrees with you. 
i did not belittle him, i only defended my position from poorly thoughtout criticism
Quote
@carnivore: Knowledge Devotion is strictly superior to Skill Knowledge <any one Knowledge>.
What ubernoob was also telling you is that many of the powers you suggested have a short duration, as well as an action cost.
i agree that Knowledge Devotion is superior to Skill Knowledge... however there is more to it than simply saying that a person should take Knowledge Devotion.... if they dont have any Knowledge Skills as Class Skills and have a Penalty to Int AND get relatively few Skill points to begin with... it is a BAD SUGGESTION..... i love the Knowledge Devotion Feat, but it has its place

I'm saying it is generally better to just wait for a better version.  There is a good way to get powers known, if expensive.

Frankly, all the fourth and fifth level psywar powers aren't amazing.
Psychic Warriors dont get a Better Version...... but you are correct about Psychic Chirurgery being an excellent way to get additional powers and that 4th and 5th lvl PW powers are underwhelming

 Big Grin
Logged

Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2008, 10:02:58 AM »

Wasting my time.
Are you by any chance related to Aelryinth?
no , but i have answered your critique of my suggestion and have shown that your reasoning is incorrect .... i also have not disrespected you the way you Disrespect me... i address your opinion with reasonable responses and Facts

Come on, guys ! You're both good CO citizens. Agree to disagree instead of belittling the guy who disagrees with you. 
i did not belittle him, i only defended my position from poorly thoughtout criticism
Wow... Just, wow.
Quote from: Carnivore
Quote
@carnivore: Knowledge Devotion is strictly superior to Skill Knowledge <any one Knowledge>.
What ubernoob was also telling you is that many of the powers you suggested have a short duration, as well as an action cost.
i agree that Knowledge Devotion is superior to Skill Knowledge... however there is more to it than simply saying that a person should take Knowledge Devotion.... if they dont have any Knowledge Skills as Class Skills and have a Penalty to Int AND get relatively few Skill points to begin with... it is a BAD SUGGESTION..... i love the Knowledge Devotion Feat, but it has its place
Read the feat one more time.  Only takes five ranks in a knowledge.
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
Omen of Peace
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1053


Wise Madman


« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2008, 10:22:13 AM »

i agree that Knowledge Devotion is superior to Skill Knowledge... however there is more to it than simply saying that a person should take Knowledge Devotion.... if they dont have any Knowledge Skills as Class Skills and have a Penalty to Int AND get relatively few Skill points to begin with... it is a BAD SUGGESTION..... i love the Knowledge Devotion Feat, but it has its place
My bad this time. Smile I thought Barbarian might have Knowledge: Nature as a class skill - goes to show I never play them.

@ubernoob: in his build, KnDev is indeed not that good.
Logged

Silanah heard their songs and prayers. And she watched. Sometimes mortals did indeed forget. Sometimes, mortals needed… reminding…
The Malazan Book of the Fallen, Steven Erikson
pfooti
Bi-Curious George
****
Posts: 531


Pants are for Suckers


WWW Email
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2008, 10:37:19 AM »

Holy Cow. Big pile of commentary. On the one hand, thanks for spending so much time figuring out good ideas for me! On the other hand, don't be too mean to each other. *hugs all around*

Anyway, let me make a few comments. I'm leaning away from Knowledge Devotion (which I agree is superior to Skill Knowledge in this regard) for four reasons:
  • The DM is only conditionally allowing parts of complete champion. I had to demonstrate how Pounce is pretty much necessary if I'm going to keep up with our Ranger/Rapidshotter and our Mega Fireballer (laugh all you will, this guy does 100+ points of damage a round, and can go all night). Knowledge devotion (while only a smallish boon) might not be worth the argument over.
  • You can't use knowledge skills while raging. So this works on guys I can see, but not on guys that show up midfight.
  • I have a hard time figuring out the RP background of this wandering nomad semi-primitive northlander (required for story continuity reasons, otherwise I don't get to show up for a while) worshipping a god who grants the Knowledge domain.
  • I'm planning on retraining the feat anyway. Once I get 4 levels of War mind, I have enough skill points invested in Knowledge (Psionics) overall to be able to retrain Skill Knowledge and maintain its 8 ranks even if the early points revert to half-points. This is cheesy, I realize, but it seems legal. Feel free to correct me if it's not.

Now, Knowledge devotion is a guaranteed +1/+1 to just about everything (since I think you can use it without ranks in the right skill, and you can always roll a 1-15 for the +1 bonus). However, I'm still retraining it for either Improved Critical (our group uses the Critical Hit deck from gamemastery, so getting those cards on a regular basis would be pretty sickeningly good), OR Combat Brute. Given the amount of knockback and charging I'm doing, both advancing blows and, um, momentum shift (?) are good from that feat. Easily worth more than the +1/+1 from Knowledge Devotion.

On the power front, I'm only really sold on Vigor so far. I figure I can usually afford one round spent buffing, especially if it's minute/level or more, since part of high-level play is dictating WHEN combat happens, and thus giving us a few rounds to buff. For similar reasons, Detect Hostile Intent seems like a VERY useful ability. I can tell you that we won't be facing many mind-blanked foes, and the DM has already said there won't be many undead for the remainder of the campaign (was thinking about a turning-cleric). Defensive Precognition was a given, but then I realized the War Mind's chain of defense was an insight bonus too. So, probably not.

Hustle is AWESOME. I love having extra mobility in a fight, especially something that lets you line up a pouncing charge (stay out of my way, allies!). However not being able to manifest it in-combat makes me less excited about it. Still, it's very good, and may be a choice. Or would have been the choice if I hadn't been swayed by DHI.

I will never get schism. The game ends at level 15, at which point I will be level 14 (no LA buyoff). The earliest schism is available here is at level 18 (sooner if you finagle a feat), when you can manifest 5th-level powers and are allowed to EK schism. It'd be neat, and in a more psionically-oriented build, totally worth chasing after. I'd love to try out something like a telepath/barbarian/ilithid slayer or something like that. That'd be a hoot. Or an ardent or something. The bard-like manifesting schedule of the PsiWar, however, delays schism far too long to make it work in a Barb/PsiWar build, unless you're starting at level 18.

Strength of my enemy is another idea I had thought about, but I'm already wearing a +2 enhancement bonus to my strength, and don't really want to spend too long throwing up round/level buffs.

Again, I'm looking at powers with a long duration and/or out-of combat utility. I was actually considering Wall Walker in the 2nd-level slot for that reason, but given that the sorcerer knows fly (and will learn mass fly soon), I'll probably stick with DHI. That leaves one more 1st-level power to pick up. I might just go with Thicken Skin, as that's +2 ac that stacks with all the other AC I have right now (it's an enhancement bonus straight to my AC, as opposed to enhancements to my armor/shield bonuses).

Vampiric blade (or whatever) is almost guaranteed to be my 3rd-level power, with a base of 3d6 damage, that's nontrivial healing. Duration is still an issue, and buff-time is one too.

The difference between Steadfast Perception and Touchsight is significant enough that it might warrant the feat for immunity to other kinds of invisibility/concealment vs unlimited range. But I'm intending to buy a Blindfold of Something or Other from the MIC. Blindsight 30' is pretty darn good (not when the invisible guy is far away shooting arrows, but still), and an ABSOLUTE STEAL at 9,000 gp. It'll be two more levels before that decision is pertinent (about touchsight), and I'll see how hard it is to work with the blindfold. Right now, though, I know I need something for certain. Monsters are starting to get things like greater invisibility or dust of disappearance (which doesn't get penetrated by see invisibility) on a very regular basis. While my character can certainly hit most reasonable AC targets at his level, 50% miss chance is 50% miss chance all around (and is actually more or less a 75% miss chance with murky-eyed). So eliminating concealment and invisibility is HUGELY important to me. Hence the blindfold right now.

Oh, and also to address the earlier thing: the character will be neutral good, which is compatible with both classes.
Logged
Ubernoob
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2217


Happy Panda


Email
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2008, 11:29:06 AM »

Holy Cow. Big pile of commentary. On the one hand, thanks for spending so much time figuring out good ideas for me! On the other hand, don't be too mean to each other. *hugs all around*

Anyway, let me make a few comments. I'm leaning away from Knowledge Devotion (which I agree is superior to Skill Knowledge in this regard) for four reasons:
  • The DM is only conditionally allowing parts of complete champion. I had to demonstrate how Pounce is pretty much necessary if I'm going to keep up with our Ranger/Rapidshotter and our Mega Fireballer (laugh all you will, this guy does 100+ points of damage a round, and can go all night). Knowledge devotion (while only a smallish boon) might not be worth the argument over.
  • You can't use knowledge skills while raging. So this works on guys I can see, but not on guys that show up midfight.
  • I have a hard time figuring out the RP background of this wandering nomad semi-primitive northlander (required for story continuity reasons, otherwise I don't get to show up for a while) worshipping a god who grants the Knowledge domain.
  • I'm planning on retraining the feat anyway. Once I get 4 levels of War mind, I have enough skill points invested in Knowledge (Psionics) overall to be able to retrain Skill Knowledge and maintain its 8 ranks even if the early points revert to half-points. This is cheesy, I realize, but it seems legal. Feel free to correct me if it's not.

Now, Knowledge devotion is a guaranteed +1/+1 to just about everything (since I think you can use it without ranks in the right skill, and you can always roll a 1-15 for the +1 bonus). However, I'm still retraining it for either Improved Critical (our group uses the Critical Hit deck from gamemastery, so getting those cards on a regular basis would be pretty sickeningly good), OR Combat Brute. Given the amount of knockback and charging I'm doing, both advancing blows and, um, momentum shift (?) are good from that feat. Easily worth more than the +1/+1 from Knowledge Devotion.
Fair 'nuff.
Quote from: pfooti
On the power front, I'm only really sold on Vigor so far. I figure I can usually afford one round spent buffing, especially if it's minute/level or more, since part of high-level play is dictating WHEN combat happens, and thus giving us a few rounds to buff. For similar reasons, Detect Hostile Intent seems like a VERY useful ability. I can tell you that we won't be facing many mind-blanked foes, and the DM has already said there won't be many undead for the remainder of the campaign (was thinking about a turning-cleric). Defensive Precognition was a given, but then I realized the War Mind's chain of defense was an insight bonus too. So, probably not.

Hustle is AWESOME. I love having extra mobility in a fight, especially something that lets you line up a pouncing charge (stay out of my way, allies!). However not being able to manifest it in-combat makes me less excited about it. Still, it's very good, and may be a choice. Or would have been the choice if I hadn't been swayed by DHI.

I will never get schism. The game ends at level 15, at which point I will be level 14 (no LA buyoff). The earliest schism is available here is at level 18 (sooner if you finagle a feat), when you can manifest 5th-level powers and are allowed to EK schism. It'd be neat, and in a more psionically-oriented build, totally worth chasing after. I'd love to try out something like a telepath/barbarian/ilithid slayer or something like that. That'd be a hoot. Or an ardent or something. The bard-like manifesting schedule of the PsiWar, however, delays schism far too long to make it work in a Barb/PsiWar build, unless you're starting at level 18.

Strength of my enemy is another idea I had thought about, but I'm already wearing a +2 enhancement bonus to my strength, and don't really want to spend too long throwing up round/level buffs.

Again, I'm looking at powers with a long duration and/or out-of combat utility. I was actually considering Wall Walker in the 2nd-level slot for that reason, but given that the sorcerer knows fly (and will learn mass fly soon), I'll probably stick with DHI. That leaves one more 1st-level power to pick up. I might just go with Thicken Skin, as that's +2 ac that stacks with all the other AC I have right now (it's an enhancement bonus straight to my AC, as opposed to enhancements to my armor/shield bonuses).

Vampiric blade (or whatever) is almost guaranteed to be my 3rd-level power, with a base of 3d6 damage, that's nontrivial healing. Duration is still an issue, and buff-time is one too.
That's five healing per hit.  At that level it is trivial.  Better to just boost your AC to not get hit as much.
Quote from: pfooti
The difference between Steadfast Perception and Touchsight is significant enough that it might warrant the feat for immunity to other kinds of invisibility/concealment vs unlimited range. But I'm intending to buy a Blindfold of Something or Other from the MIC. Blindsight 30' is pretty darn good (not when the invisible guy is far away shooting arrows, but still), and an ABSOLUTE STEAL at 9,000 gp. It'll be two more levels before that decision is pertinent (about touchsight), and I'll see how hard it is to work with the blindfold. Right now, though, I know I need something for certain. Monsters are starting to get things like greater invisibility or dust of disappearance (which doesn't get penetrated by see invisibility) on a very regular basis. While my character can certainly hit most reasonable AC targets at his level, 50% miss chance is 50% miss chance all around (and is actually more or less a 75% miss chance with murky-eyed). So eliminating concealment and invisibility is HUGELY important to me. Hence the blindfold right now.

Oh, and also to address the earlier thing: the character will be neutral good, which is compatible with both classes.
Blindfold of true darkness is a damn good purchase.

Powers:
Expansion
Precognition, Offensive or Empty Mind
Hustle
DHI
Dimension Slide
Precognition, Offensive or Empty Mind
Logged

Ubernoob is a happy panda.
PhaedrusXY
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 8022


Advanced Spambot


« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2008, 11:38:03 AM »

The difference between Steadfast Perception and Touchsight is significant enough that it might warrant the feat for immunity to other kinds of invisibility/concealment vs unlimited range. But I'm intending to buy a Blindfold of Something or Other from the MIC. Blindsight 30' is pretty darn good (not when the invisible guy is far away shooting arrows, but still), and an ABSOLUTE STEAL at 9,000 gp. It'll be two more levels before that decision is pertinent (about touchsight), and I'll see how hard it is to work with the blindfold. Right now, though, I know I need something for certain. Monsters are starting to get things like greater invisibility or dust of disappearance (which doesn't get penetrated by see invisibility) on a very regular basis. While my character can certainly hit most reasonable AC targets at his level, 50% miss chance is 50% miss chance all around (and is actually more or less a 75% miss chance with murky-eyed). So eliminating concealment and invisibility is HUGELY important to me. Hence the blindfold right now.
Can you do without that flaw? I think there is a way to pick up Blindfight from an item, also (but I can't remember it...). That would help quite a bit, I'd think. Blindfight also lets you keep your Dex to AC vs. invisible attackers in melee (and all that goes with that).
Logged

A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!