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Mister_Sinister
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« on: September 11, 2008, 09:13:12 PM » |
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Now, null stats are problematic, causing all kinds of silliness, such as undead HD inflation, to name but one. However, what should be done to rectify it?
My solution is a simple one - stat pairing. Effectively, one stat defaults to another for certain purposes if nulled.
Strength: A creature with no Str score uses its Dex score for attack and damage rolls, its Con score for encumbrance, and its Dex score on all Str-based skills.
Dexterity: A creature with no Dex score uses its Int score for initiative, attack rolls with ranged attacks, and AC
Constitution: A creature with no Con score uses Str for all purposes instead. A creature with neither a Con or a Str score uses Cha for all purposes instead.
Intelligence: A creature with no Int score uses Wisdom for all purposes instead.
Wisdom and Charisma: A creature without such scores is an object.
Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2008, 09:19:56 PM » |
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It's a start, but I don't think it's that simple. Like all things in D&D, there's got to be exceptions. There are countless undead/constructs that I agree should use Str for HP. There are plenty that shouldn't. Liches for example. They have str scores, and although they're not a good template at the LA, they don't reak of the undead type that should gain HP from Str...
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2008, 09:21:45 PM » |
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Well, I am trying to pin down general principles before getting into specifics. As far as templates are concerned, we can just plain SAY what damn stat we want them to sub in in the template.
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2008, 09:23:18 PM » |
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Well then we need to data harvest... time to find a crapton of monsters with missing ability scores...
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2008, 09:24:02 PM » |
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Be my guest, sir - I've done enough of that for a week!  |
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Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki. Check them both out! |
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2008, 09:24:59 PM » |
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I hate you... But I'll look up some Str-less monsters soon.
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2008, 09:26:10 PM » |
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Just handle it all in one fell swoop - post the data here in this format: Monster NameStat(s) missing: Given solution: Proposed solution: Go go AC! |
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JaronK
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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2008, 09:28:17 PM » |
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Definitely the con->str idea is a bad one. Consider what happens when you play a Necropolitan War Hulk.
JaronK
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2008, 09:29:36 PM » |
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Both of which are non-core, and thus currently not under consideration at this time.
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2008, 09:30:23 PM » |
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Oh, am I doing core only? Sweet. So much easier. That's only 1 book
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2008, 09:32:47 PM » |
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It helps to start with something that won't kill us in one go. Let's get core working before we push up and out.
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JaronK
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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2008, 09:40:24 PM » |
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But you're altering base game mechanics. If that means it breaks everything outside of core then you're going to be in serious trouble. The idea is to fix 3.5, not just 3.5 core. You can start with core, but you'll have to branch out at some point and should think about that.
JaronK
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2008, 09:44:42 PM » |
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Yeah, that is absolutely true. However, you will end up with distended examples like the one you mentioned above in nearly every arrangement, and the current one is actually pretty stupid, with undead needing like twice as many HD as everyone else just to make their HP not irrelevant. I believe a single broken outcome isn't as bad as a whole broken sub-system: a single example can be ruled on exception. Then again, necropolitan is a template: we can just RULE what stat they use to replace with!
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2008, 09:59:14 PM » |
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On Str. There need be no change. As far as I can tell you can't lack a Str score and NOT be incorpreal. Incorpreality covers the Str score being missing. No weight = No encumbrance. And frankly, they don't need/use the skills based on Str.
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2008, 09:59:42 PM » |
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True, good point.
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2008, 10:01:25 PM » |
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Good. *tag* you find the monsters without a dex score
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2008, 10:02:44 PM » |
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Dude, I've done two massive data harvesting projects already! |
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Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki. Check them both out! |
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2008, 10:05:52 PM » |
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How many Dex-less creatures are there? And I know you'll tag me back for Con-less creatures... Deal  |
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2008, 10:07:23 PM » |
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I ought to skin you someday, AC... Fine, after work today, I might get onto it. |
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Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki. Check them both out! |
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AfterCrescent
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2008, 10:08:13 PM » |
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Right after I find you and cut you for the lack of a threesome in a certain book... |
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