D&D Skills & Feats [Rebalancing 3.5]

[JaronK]

Well, that first change would actually leave the Warblade exactly as is.  Basically, it would let the Warblade ignore the changes to feats that exist only for Fighters.

JaronK

[RobbyPants]

Are you refering to things like the reworked Weapon Focus?  I was thining the warblade could have access to the abilities two levels later.  If people feel that's stepping on the fighter's toes, then we can just leave the other three feats as-is and make the warblade purchase them separately.

[Midnight_v]

Are you refering to things like the reworked Weapon Focus?  I was thining the warblade could have access to the abilities two levels later.  If people feel that's stepping on the fighter's toes, then we can just leave the other three feats as-is and make the warblade purchase them separately.

You know what I was when I wrote that but... in retrospect, Robby I was wrong.
I did think "Hey this is more of the warblade stealing the fighters thunder!" honestly though now that we've made a fighter that has actual level appropriate class features, it shoudn't be that big an issue really. I mean fighters can still take Martial study...
Hey did we specify that fighters have full intiator level for purposes of martial study and martial stance... and should we?

[RobbyPants]

I don't remember doing that, but that doesn't mean it can't be added.

[Midnight_v]

I don't remember doing that, but that doesn't mean it can't be added.

I couldn't remeber but, hmm... if we add that as a addendum then we never really have to worry about the warblade and fighter "stepping on each others toes" anymore because well they're much more in line then.
Thats actually awesome. I cast a lot for adding it "maybe as just an *"

[JaronK]

You could certainly add it... I had originally planned to do so, but the reason I didn't was that I found some people just really don't like manuevers.  I dunno why, but they don't.  So I wanted there to be a soldier class that didn't have manuevers all that much... sure Martial Study exists, but they don't have special abilities related to it (especially without the Adaptable Feats). 

But yes, I meant that Warblades wouldn't be able to count as being Fighters for purposes of feats that get better if you have Fighter levels.  I don't think we want to boost Warblades much... they're good now.

JaronK

[Midnight_v]

You could certainly add it... I had originally planned to do so, but the reason I didn't was that I found some people just really don't like manuevers.  I dunno why, but they don't.  So I wanted there to be a soldier class that didn't have manuevers all that much... sure Martial Study exists, but they don't have special abilities related to it (especially without the Adaptable Feats). 

But yes, I meant that Warblades wouldn't be able to count as being Fighters for purposes of feats that get better if you have Fighter levels.  I don't think we want to boost Warblades much... they're good now.

JaronK

Thats what I meant with that slight rewording but realized its irrelavant. If were dealing with people who hate manuevers then the warblade doesn't exist in thier game anyway.
If were dealing with people who do ... the fighter has gained full use of martial study, and the warblade maintained what he already had "fighter Light" status when it came to feats.
Its still slightly below the crusader in power. So .. balacnce has been achieved.

[RobbyPants]

That being said, how do we feel about scaling Armor Focus and Shield Focus feats?  I made a rough draft of Armor Focus earlier, but I haven't written up a Shield Focus yet.

The basic idea was to grant an ability that everyone gets, and in addition, fighters get more abilies as they level.  I was also toying with counting all non-fighter levels as half, so other people could get the goodies too, at a later level.

Below is my latest work up of Armor Focus:

Armor Focus
You are skilled at wearing armor.  You have figured out how to maximize the defense from your armor while minimizing it's impact on your mobility.
Prerequisite: Armor Proficiency, Light
Benifit:When wearing any armor with which you are proficient, the max Dex bonus of the armor is improved by +1, the armor check penalty is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 0), and the arcane spell failure is reduced by 5% (to a minimum of 0%).
- A fighter of 4th level and higher treats any medium armor worn as light armor, and any heavy armor as medium for purposes of your speed limitations imposed by the armor, and class abilities limited by armor* (such as a rogue's evasion in light or no armor).
- A fighter of 8th level and higher has the armor bonus of his armor increases by +1
- A fighter of 12th level and higher improves the max Dex bonus of the armor by an additional +1, and reduces the armor check penalty by an additional 1 (to a minimum of 0), and reduces the arcane spell failure by an additional 5% (to a minimum of 0%).


*This section would be included in the feat if non-fighters were allowed to benifit from this section of the feat.

[Kuroimaken]

Doesn't that feat make Mithril Armor... y'know, pointless?

[Midnight_v]

1. I don't think armor focus should be limited to fighters
2. Kuroi  is right (maybe that was the point)
3. There's several versions of armor focus around the OA one was better than the Phb2 one.
I think the one you suggest is good.
I think I like the Oriental one better...
How about we use that one and add...
What you wrote for a fighter

The basic idea was to grant an ability that everyone gets, and in addition, fighters get more abilies as they level.   I was also toying with counting all non-fighter levels as half, so other people could get the goodies too, at a later level.

Below is my latest work up of Armor Focus

:
I dont' like that because of well what about the barbarian and paladin who deserve an equal treatment they're still warriors hmm... but maybe your right if they're getting specific feats for themselves as well...

Which means... I should get to work on the "Rage" feats and other barbarian related things... I suppose...

[RobbyPants]

Doesn't that feat make Mithril Armor... y'know, pointless?

I wanted to remove the category feature of mithril, and just have it alter the ACP, ASF, and max Dex.  I did that because there was no reason to take adamantine otherwise.  I just made it a flat 1,000 gp, as it has the same effect on all three armor categories.

[Kuroimaken]

Doesn't that feat make Mithril Armor... y'know, pointless?

I wanted to remove the category feature of mithril, and just have it alter the ACP, ASF, and max Dex.  I did that because there was no reason to take adamantine otherwise.  I just made it a flat 1,000 gp, as it has the same effect on all three armor categories.

Gotcha.

Don't overestimate the ability of getting more AC by enhancing Max Dex, though. Remember that even easily raised stats take a while to do so. You might end up with guys who wear armor that has too much max Dex for them to make use of.

[Midnight_v]

Doesn't that feat make Mithril Armor... y'know, pointless?

I wanted to remove the category feature of mithril, and just have it alter the ACP, ASF, and max Dex.  I did that because there was no reason to take adamantine otherwise.  I just made it a flat 1,000 gp, as it has the same effect on all three armor categories.

Waaiiit a mintute...
Why not just make adamantine armor "good" on its own?
...
I think I got it too...

Adamantine armor?
 Its highly reflective and slightly magicaly disruptive.
Damage reduction
3/- in light
4/- Medium
5/- Medium
Adds half its armor bonus to your touch ac.
increases spellchance failure by and additionl 10%

[JaronK]

I agree, let's make Adamantine good instead of making Mithral crappy. 

I think any armor specialization feat should boost the AC of the armor, really. 

JaronK

[veekie]

The DMM Persistent spell issue made me think of this fix for Persistent spell, which lets spells last far longer than they are designed for.

How about this for a fixed version?

PERSISTENT SPELL [METAMAGIC]
You can make a spell last much longer.
  Prerequisite: Extend Spell.
  Benefit: Spells affected by this metamagic have their duration increased as per the table below.

Initial Duration	Modified Duration
Concentration	rounds/level
rounds/level	minutes/level
minutes/level	10 minutes/level
10 minutes/level	hours/level
hours/level	24 hours

Spells of instantaneous or permanent duration cannot be affected by this feat, and spells whose effects are discharged still end normally when they are discharged. You don’t need to maintain concentration on persistent detect spells (such as detect magic or detect thoughts) for you to be aware of the mere presence or absence of the subject detected, but gaining additional information requires concentration as normal. Spells with fixed durations have their duration increased to 10 times normal, to a maximum of 24 hours.
  A persistent spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell’s actual level.

I'm not sure if this should be allowed to stack with itself though(which would let you replay the Persistent Divine Power shenanigans, but it'd cost more) , but the worst offenders are taken care of, and a lot of the day long effects might as well be added to the Permanency list anyway.

EDITED to cap things at 24 hours, in accordance with the daily nature of the Spell Slot resource.

[Midnight_v]

Veekie. I rather like this idea. 

[veekie]

Well, the real problem was that Persisting turned spells that were never meant to last more than minutes at most, into day long buffs, this bones that, and incidentally makes it more useful than just buffing. A one step increase is harmless in nearly all cases.

[Kuroimaken]

I likes. I likes a lot.

Question: does your reworked version alter the "legal" targets for Persist Spell? We could really use some light on that.

EDIT: Found a little problem with this line...

Spells with fixed durations have their duration increased to 10 times normal.

Go Superior Resistance and Mindblank (or any spell with a 24 hour duration). 240 hours duration, yay! (480 if you allow Extend to stack).

[Soda]

Day/level seems a tad much. I think hour/level should go to 24 hours flat.

[veekie]

Well, considering they last all day anyway, no biggie by the time they are zapping it. But I guess I could cap it to a maximum of 24 hours, in keeping with a daily resource gauge system. Hang on, editing.