Melee Mastery Class 3.5

[ThisGuy01]

I had an idea for a fighter fix that showed his true mastery of all types of combat.  I thought of giving them abilities from other classes, somewhere like 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, and 18th levels.  some abilities would have prerequisites, mostly level requirements and lower levels of the ability if there are improvements (such as evasion and improved evasion).  some of the abilities i was going to give them are as follows;

1d6 Sneak Attack (can be taken multiple times for extra dice)

Evasion
-Improved Evasion

Conviction (will save version of evasion)
-Improved Conviction

Tenacity (fort save version of evasion)
-Improved Tenacity

Favored Enemy (can be taken up to twice)

Fast Movement +10
-Improved Fast Movement additional +20

Uncanny Dodge
-Improved Uncanny Dodge

Lay on Hands (paladin level is class level -4)

Animal Companion (druid level is class level -5)

Trapfinding and +3 on search ((basically skill focus for free with it))

basically any ability is fair game, though i don't want to make one class steal all the others abilities.  comments on the idea are welcome and any insight you might is appreciated.

[Midnight_v]

conviction (will save version of evasion)
-improved conviction

I like the name but why not use mettle?

[ThisGuy01]

mettle is for both wil saves and fort saves, I wanted to split the three up into their own separate ability.  i didn't want to give them two saves for the price of one.

[Garryl]

conviction (will save version of evasion)
-improved conviction

flex (fort save version of evasion) ((needs a new name badly))
-improved flex

I agree, Conviction is a good name. It's much better than Mettle of Will, which is usually used when it only applies to Will saves.

For the Fortitude version, how about...
... Endurance (already used by the feat, unfortunately)
... Resilience
... Tenacity

[ThisGuy01]

For the Fortitude version, how about...
... Endurance (already used by the feat, unfortunately)
... Resilience
... Tenacity

Brilliant sir! changing it now.

by the way, any thoughts on the actual class idea?

[SneeR]

The abilities are good, but it gets them too infrequently. Maybe at first level, then every even level?

The problem here is scope: none of these abilities are game-changers, though they are nice melee enchancers. This guy is going to be a great 2-3 level dip and really rock the low-levels, but at higher levels he will really start to fall behind without specifically countering magic, or getting some magic of his own.

I think a great waay to do this would be an ability you can get at 10th level or higher: Selective Magic immunity. Exaclty like the golem ability, except you get to choose when it affects you. That will put every caster in their place, even most conjurers.

[ThisGuy01]

i had dabbled with the idea of having one ability being the spellcasting.  the first time you take the ability, you can cast spells as a first level sorcerer, with the same spells per day and spells known, thought these spells can be taken from either the sorcerer/wizard, druid, or cleric list.  they wouldn't have the ability to retrain spells of lower levels.  then every time they take the ability, they can cast spells as one level higher.

it seemed that would be so easily abused that it would just be an automatic part of the class.  i planned on giving them no ASF chance and limiting it to just sorcerer/wizard too, but again I didnt want it to be so good it was automatic.

then again, when i look at it...if they take every ability as spellcasting, they'd only be able to cast 3rd level spells.  is that anything too amazing for 18th level seeing as they would still have good BAB and all the fighter feats and such?

[ThisGuy01]

This guy is going to be a great 2-3 level dip and really rock the low-levels,

seeing as how he doesn't get the first ability until 3rd level, i don't see how it's a whole lot better than 2-3 levels of fighter

[SneeR]

This guy is going to be a great 2-3 level dip and really rock the low-levels,

seeing as how he doesn't get the first ability until 3rd level, i don't see how it's a whole lot better than 2-3 levels of fighter

I was saying with the progression I suggested.

Wait--were you planning on letting this guy be effectively a warrior until level 3!? That is not advisable.

[ThisGuy01]

Wait--were you planning on letting this guy be effectively a warrior until level 3!? That is not advisable.

Can you explain?


The idea, as I said in the OP, is this is a fighter fix.  It's supposed to give the fighter more abilities to give some more flexibility. 

[SneeR]

Wait--were you planning on letting this guy be effectively a warrior until level 3!? That is not advisable.

Can you explain?


The idea, as I said in the OP, is this is a fighter fix.  It's supposed to give the fighter more abilities to give some more flexibility. 

Oh, I'm so sorry. The OP was unclear. I thought that you nixed the fighter feats! When I read it was a fix, I guess I assumed you were starting from scratch, with none of the old features.

TTo be honest, though, those abilities still don't mke the fighter really rise above the other classes, though this is by far one of the more elegant starts.

[ThisGuy01]

I was also thinking of giving them a handful other abilities such as woodland stride, trackless step, trapsense, camouflage, aura of courage, uncanny dodge, sense elements, those kinds of things.  I wanted to give them some more out of combat abilities as well as giving them a combat buffs.

and to clarify, i was thinking of keeping the fighter feats, though possibly lessening them slightly.  the amount of feats they get would depend on exactly how the abilities work out.

[ThisGuy01]

Just wanted to throw out some character builds with this system to get an idea of what people think.  This will only take into account the special abilities they get, not the feats they would have.

10th level Half-orc:

3rd:  Tenacity
6th:  Favored Enemy [Humanoid Human]
9th:  Animal Companion (Heavy Horse) with +2HD, +2 Nat Armor, +1 Str/Dex, 2 Bonus Tricks, Evasion, Link, and (useless) Share Spells.

This plus 6 fighter feats and 4 feats from levels could make an effective war band leader.

10th level halfling:

3rd:  1d6 sneak attack
6th:  Fast Movement +10
9th:  1d6 sneak attack

With the 6 fighter feats and 4 HD feats, considering his availability for SA based feats, this could be quite a challenger I think.

10th level dwarf:

3rd:  Favored Enemy [giant]
6th:  Favored Enemy [humanoid goblinoid]
9th:  Trapfinding/+3 on search

Something along the lines of a kingdom defender, capitalizing on their racial bonuses against giants and goblins, with the trapfinding there to detect the traps goblins commonly leave.  With all the feats this should be a pretty effective guard.

[Tenebrus]

A friend and I were discussing this approach.  Trash all those armor and weapon proficiencies at 1st level and offer a somewhat lesser number of picks, including moving up the feat tree.  MUST I have heavy armor prof as a fighter?  Say I have a "local hero" type in mind.  I'd ditch heavy and light proficiencies for Guerrilla Warrior and Guerrilla Scout (HoB) and trade shield for power attack.  That's how I was trained: a fast, light dude with a bow and glaive or something like that.  Let a thousand variations bloom.

I have never run a fighter with the remotest interest in being a platemailed knight on a horse.  Let's make those 1 size fits all starting proficiencies up for trades that further the player's concept.  And fighters need all the help they can get.

[ThisGuy01]

I could put in something like the losing one armor proficiency gains you a bonus feat, losing a second gains you an extra special ability (probably from a separate list than the normal one, at least much more limited), and if you lost your third it would net you...i'm not sure, something though. 

For the weapons, if you gave up all martial proficiency you would gain a bonus feat.

something like that would let specialization be easier if you really wanted to lose your proficiencies.  one stipulation would be though that these can only be taken at character level 1, to avoid a quick dip from someone to gain big bonuses.  then again, i could make it a trade during your first few levels.  being able to lose heavy armor proficiency or martial weapon at 1st, then medium armor if you lost heavy armor, or martial weapon if you still had it at 2nd, then 3rd level you could chose to lose light armor if you lost medium.

that would make anyone wanting to dip into this at least invest a few levels, and if you gave up the martial weapon proficiency for the extras, you can't gain it again.

that's kind of one big ramble, but take from it what you will.