Quick question

[AriasDerros]

People on these boards keep talking about how the Astral Planes timeless trait causes spells to make spell durations permanent for as long as they are on the plane.

So this would mean that a Neutral Cleric could use Unearthly Beauty on the Astral Plane, and call in evil outsiders, and use free actions to evoke will saves versus death until they fail.

My question is, "Where is the rules for this?"

What I read for this is out of the DMG, the SRD, and Manual of the Planes.
•   Timeless Trait specifically states that time passes normally, so it's 1:1 normally, but that the effects of time are diminished. The entry then references that the specific entries of the planes will have more information on what all is affected by this trait.
•   Astral Plane references that its Timeless trait affects poison, thirst, hunger, age, and natural healing.

This means that if you go to the Astral Plane for two weeks, then go back to the Material Plane, that two weeks have passed there too. You just weren't hungry until you came back.

So where is this information about Timeless being applied to spell durations?

[Psithief]

Oh, you know that people make things up here all the time.
You have to read critically. If something is too good to be true then it usually is.

[AriasDerros]

Oh, you know that people make things up here all the time.
You have to read critically. If something is too good to be true then it usually is.

A) Pun-Pun is too good to be true. But it is. As are many other exploitable "glitches" in the game.
B) I never assume that I know more or less, I only assume that either I or the other person is missing something.

Thus,
C) The basis of the question is either to: educate me on what I am missing; or have the community realize that this does not work. I am hoping for the former over the latter, as it gives me options both as a player and as a DM that I would otherwise not have w/o extensive exploitation's that I would rather not use.

[Midnight_v]

Oh, you know that people make things up here all the time.
You have to read critically. If something is too good to be true then it usually is.

Kinda disrespectful, of you. Disrespectful psithief.
 People don't make things up... THAT DON'T get checked! Tell the whole story jerk. 

If someone makes something up, there are going to be about 12 people that come in right after and go
"bullshit... it says right here verse 12 chapter 6, paragraph 3, line, 2."

[Rebel7284]

People on these boards [...]

Link or it didn't happen.

[Blind Sight]

Maybe it means 1:1, as in how much time has passed once you return, but will not pass as you're there. So, a spell with a duration other than instantaneous would last forever, until you went back, and duration rules will apply as if you'd been there all along.

[spacemonkey555]

On these planes, time still passes, but the
effects of time are diminished. Those effects should be
specifically defined for timeless planes.

If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any
spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent
until dispelled.

Timeless: Age, hunger, thirst, poison, and natural healing
don’t function in the Astral Plane, though they resume
functioning when the traveler leaves the Astral Plane.

That's the limit to timelessness on the astral plane, it doesn't specify timeless magic.

[AriasDerros]

Maybe it means 1:1, as in how much time has passed once you return, but will not pass as you're there. So, a spell with a duration other than instantaneous would last forever, until you went back, and duration rules will apply as if you'd been there all along.

I understand that this is the concept that people are expressing, but I want something I can point a DM to as a player, or my players to if they complain as a DM.

On these planes, time still passes, but the
effects of time are diminished. Those effects should be
specifically defined for timeless planes.

If a plane is timeless with respect to magic, any
spell cast with a noninstantaneous duration is permanent
until dispelled.

Timeless: Age, hunger, thirst, poison, and natural healing
don’t function in the Astral Plane, though they resume
functioning when the traveler leaves the Astral Plane.

That's the limit to timelessness on the astral plane, it doesn't specify timeless magic.

That's basically what I'm asking about, as people are referencing timeless magic. Even between the Dirty Tricks thread and the Dirty Tricks Fixes thread, the only fix offered is "don't allow planes to have a timeless trait."  Which means that someone who is looking for ways to end the dirty tricks didn't even question the validity, therefor, I assume that it must be valid and I just can't find where it says it.

For the record, I don't even care about whether or not it is the Astral Plane itself. I can't find ANY plane with a timeless magic. The closest I can find to gaining perpetuity is the Far Realm, and that isn't used in many campaigns because it is so very FUBAR.

[McPoyo]

The dirty tricks thing is for accelerated time, and isn't that they last forever, it's that you can have minutes, hours, days, etc while only a single round passes real-time: Shift to faster speed, heal up, re-prepare spells, whatever, then shift back during the "same round", and go to town again. Rinse, Repeat.

[AriasDerros]

The dirty tricks thing is for accelerated time, and isn't that they last forever, it's that you can have minutes, hours, days, etc while only a single round passes real-time: Shift to faster speed, heal up, re-prepare spells, whatever, then shift back during the "same round", and go to town again. Rinse, Repeat.

The Trick in Dirty Tricks from here http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2287.369

Time stop on the Astral Plane = infinite time to do anything you want until you leave the plane; more likely to be accepted than genesis shenanigans, while having the same effect.

The Fix from here http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3288.10

33: Time stop on a timeless plain like the Astral Plane = Planes with the timeless trait allow non-instantaneous spell effect durations to never, ever run out, so long as you don't dismiss them or leave the plane. Since time stop has a non-instantaneous duration (regardless of whether it's variable or not), you're in your own little bubble of infinite time until you leave the plane. [Thanks Lycanthromancer]
Fix: Do not allow the timeless trait in your DnD cosmology. If you must, be mean and make infinite time pass in the Prime, making the PC fail any and all quests he should have done. Game over?

Edit: on further review, even in the Manual of the Planes, there is no plane listed as having a "timeless with respect to magic." So, other than 3.0 books and the SRD, does anyone know if Genesis was printed in 3.5?