Reasons to dislike Eberron

[Amechra]

I have to say, when I think of Steampunk, I think of it in terms of the old White Wolf Mage: the Ascension, wherein science works because everyone thinks it does.

Steampunk goes: "If it looks like this, it works", and everyone in that world goes along with it, so...

It works.

[Libertad]

I overall like Eberron's unorthodox nature, but there's some parts I don't like.

Eberron is played up as a pulp/noir setting.  It's got quite a bit of the pulp covered, but noir elements don't seem to fit in as well especially in higher-level games.

The characters of noir fiction are ruthless gangsters, jaded detectives, and crooked cops.  You can run an adventure around PCs tracking down a depraved serial killer in the grimy alleys of the city of Sharn, but noir tropes don't fit as well into D&D as pulp does.  In Pulp, the characters are larger-than-life adventurers, two-fisted explorers, and other "adventuring" archetypes.

By mid-high level the PCs get cool stuff, can afford to live in nice areas of town, and display superhuman levels of skill.  A mad scientist Artificer and his Warforged companion are assaulting a crazed baron's airship fortress which laying siege to a city: this idea fits perfectly with Pulp and D&D.  A noir game feels more "small-time," limited, and seems inappropriate for higher-level games.  It's hard to see a powerful wizard ex-cop as a "down-on-his-luck detective trying to get by."

[Agita]

I overall like Eberron's unorthodox nature, but there's some parts I don't like.

Eberron is played up as a pulp/noir setting.  It's got quite a bit of the pulp covered, but noir elements don't seem to fit in as well especially in higher-level games.

The characters of noir fiction are ruthless gangsters, jaded detectives, and crooked cops.  You can run an adventure around PCs tracking down a depraved serial killer in the grimy alleys of the city of Sharn, but noir tropes don't fit as well into D&D as pulp does.  In Pulp, the characters are larger-than-life adventurers, two-fisted explorers, and other "adventuring" archetypes.

By mid-high level the PCs get cool stuff, can afford to live in nice areas of town, and display superhuman levels of skill.  A mad scientist Artificer and his Warforged companion are assaulting a crazed baron's airship fortress which laying siege to a city: this idea fits perfectly with Pulp and D&D.  A noir game feels more "small-time," limited, and seems inappropriate for higher-level games.  It's hard to see a powerful wizard ex-cop as a "down-on-his-luck detective trying to get by."

That's more a function of the system than of the setting. D&D is simply unsuited to gritty, low-power play even at relatively low-ish (5-6) levels.

[oslecamo]

Because there aren't 4 whole levels before that? And they aren't any faster to level up than the others.

[Agita]

Four whole levels also known as all of one fifth of 20 levels. Woo hoo.

[Libertad]

That's more a function of the system than of the setting. D&D is simply unsuited to gritty, low-power play even at relatively low-ish (5-6) levels.

That's why I don't think the noir aspect should be considered a major focus of the setting.  Fluffwise, the setting feels more suited to pulp with all the unexplored continents, secret cabals of demons plotting to rule the world, and the fantastic techno-magic locations of sublime power.

[oslecamo]

U mad that I pointed out the option is there? If all of D&D was gritty based, then you would be whining that D&D can't make high fantasy(5-8), super-heroes(9-12), high-powered (13-16) and godlike (17-20) wasn't there. PCs becoming more powerful and significant as they level up, what heresy were the designers thinking?

[Agita]

U mad that I pointed out the option is there?

No, I mad that you're completely missing the point. The point is that Eberron claims one of its themes to be "noir", which just isn't possible in any kind of extended D&D campaign. Levels 1-4 are over in a jiffy, either because you die to an unlucky crit or because you level to 5 (it doesn't take very long, especially with Eberron's predilection towards cinematic combat meaning you'll have fewer and more challenging fights on average, and so have somewhat fewer than the assumed 13.3 repeating encounters a level). Now if you'd be so kind, stop derailing.

That's more a function of the system than of the setting. D&D is simply unsuited to gritty, low-power play even at relatively low-ish (5-6) levels.

That's why I don't think the noir aspect should be considered a major focus of the setting.  Fluffwise, the setting feels more suited to pulp with all the unexplored continents, secret cabals of demons plotting to rule the world, and the fantastic techno-magic locations of sublime power.

Agreed, yes. It can be done if you play with other systems (such as DFRPG) and just use the setting, but that's sort of outside the scope of the thread.