Gestalt Dread necromancer help?

[snakeman830]

Here's the deal: The class build is Dread Necromancer 20||Necromancer 3/Master Specialist 2/Pale Master 10/Master Specialist 5.  I'm using the Enhanced Undead NEcromancer ACF from the SRD.


The main thing I'm looking for assistance with is picking the 5 Advanced Learning spells.  I figure it would make the most sense for them to be off of the Cleric list, since that would be my only access to those spells.

Any suggestions?

[Shadowhunter]

Well if you're going to make any Undead what-so-ever (and I assume you will), Desecrate is pretty much a given.

[BrainCandy]

The main thing I'm looking for assistance with is picking the 5 Advanced Learning spells.  I figure it would make the most sense for them to be off of the Cleric list, since that would be my only access to those spells.

Any suggestions?

Perhaps General of Undeath if you want more walking corpses.

How many sorc/wizard necromancy spells are there that you would want and don't get with Dread Necro? If the answer is a smallish number, than consider making your wizard specialty conjuration or transmutation. Pick up those spells you need with advanced learning and use your wizard side to buff/debuff/battlefield control the situation to a degree where your undead can mop up handily.

[snakeman830]

Well if you're going to make any Undead what-so-ever (and I assume you will), Desecrate is pretty much a given.

Evocation, though, so it's not a legal choice.  Besides, I grabbed the Deadwalker's Ring.  It's going to be a REALLY good day if I'm animating undead more than 3 times.

I went Necromancer so that all of my created undead (including me) get an additional 2hp/HD.  I banned Evocation and Enchantment (since most of Evocation can be mimicked with Illusion and Enchantment does nothing that Necromancy can't..at least when you throw in Necrotic Cyst spells)

[JaronK]

Ghoul Glyph can be fun, simply because you can spam out all your unused slots at the end of the day on permanent traps.  If the campaign doesn't physically move much, that can be useful.

Also consider Consumptive Field.

JaronK

[BrainCandy]

Consumptive Field and Greater Consumptive Field are both sexy. Especially if you can persist them. Good call Jaronk 

Wave of Pain (BOVD) isn't bad either. It's a fort save or be stunned for several rounds spell that isn't mind effecting. It will stop most living creatures dead.

[snakeman830]

Persisting is sadly out of the question right now, although it still may be worth it to take (Greater) Consumptive Field.

[JaronK]

I notice you're rocking the MAD pretty hard with the Int and Cha focus.  Have you considered Tainted Sorcerer, if it's available in your campaign?

Also, I'm a huge fan of Black Sand as a spell for Necromancers... but I forget if Wizards have it already.

JaronK

[BrainCandy]

I notice you're rocking the MAD pretty hard with the Int and Cha focus.  Have you considered Tainted Sorcerer, if it's available in your campaign?

Also, I'm a huge fan of Black Sand as a spell for Necromancers... but I forget if Wizards have it already.

JaronK

I was actually about to say the same thing (about Tainted Scholar)

A 1 level dip in Tainted Scholar knocks out the MAD and it is in the same book as the Dread Necro, I would think it should be easy to get. If you can afford a binder level you can take the Blooded Metamagic and bind Naberious to make using metamagic trivial. Once you become a Lich (or even before), you can just magic jar yourself in a suitably awesome combat form (that has a con) and still metamagic you black grubby little heart out. If your combat form dies, you reform as a fresh Lich back at your Phylactory.

[snakeman830]

My build is set and I'm not worried one bit about MAD (my Int is 34 and my Cha is 36).  Seriously, I'm not looking for build help.  I don't want any advice on that front, just spell selection.

Black Sand I'm stronly considering (Cleric 3, Sand 2, but I can't use the Sand domain).

Right now, I'm looking at the following spells for Advanced Learning:

Level 4: Ghoul Glyph.  Yes, it's on the Wizard list, but no-save Paralyisis is nice.  Sadly, it's pretty useless in combat.  Keligore's Grave Mist is the other major option due to the no-save dubuff (SR applies, but oh well).  Adding a bit of damage that I and most of my minions are immune to is also rather nice.  Wither Limb is my final option as it is one hell of a single-target debuff.

Level 8: Black Sand: make healing my large army even easier than before.  Another alternative is Unliving Weapon, but I'm not sure suicide bombers are really worthwhile uses of my minions.

Level 12: Unknown

Level 16: Possibly General of Undeath?  It gives me an additional 46HD of undead control (my caster level for Evil Necromancy spells with verbal components is 23 and I have a Rod of Undead Mastery)

Level 20: Unknown

[Suzerain]

Okay, I dunno if it helps much, but I made a few lists real quick of all the Cleric + non-Wizard spells that are indexed. Maybe someone will look at these and recognize a good one.

Source is SpC (or SRD) unless otherwise noted. Lvl 4 has 1st to 2nd level spells, everything after that lists only the additions.

Level 4 (1st to 2nd level spells)

Angry Ache [BoVD]
Boneblast [BoVD]
Curse of Ill Fortune
Curse Water (M)
Deathwatch
Ease of Breath [FrB]
Execration [CC]
Lesser Frostburn [FrB]
Hemorrhage [Web]
Living Undeath
Mark of the Outcast
Rigor Mortis [HoH]

Level 8 (3rd to 4th level spells)

Black Sand [Sand]
Blood of the Martyr [BoVD]
Boneblade [BoVD]
Clutch of Orcus
Consumptive Field
Create Spirit Idol (XP) [PGtE]
Curse of Petty Failing [Mini]
Delay Death
Frostburn [FrB]
Mark of Doom [PHB2]
Negative Energy Aura [PlH]
Pronouncement Of Fate [HoH]
Rejuvenative Corpse
Spark of Life
Unliving Weapon [BoVD]

Level 12 (5th to 6th level spells)

Bleed [CC]
Charnel Fire [BoVD]
Mass Curse of Ill Fortune
Mass Frostburn [FrB]
Hibernate
Mark of Justice
Secure Corpse [BoED]
Semblance of Life [MoE]
Slay Living
Soul Scour [Una]

Level 16 (7th to 8th level spells)

Blood to Water
Bodak's Glare (F)
Greater Consumptive Field
Death Dragon
Death Pact (M)
Mass Death Ward
General of Undeath
Heat Drain
Imprison Soul (M) (F) [BoVD]
Pestilence
Ravage [CoR]
Spark of Life
Undead Mask [SS]
Undeath after Death (M) [MoF]
Withering Palm [CA]

Level 20 (9th level spells)
None

[snakeman830]

Wow!  Very useful list!  Thanks.

Turns out, the only 9th level Necromancy spell I can find that isn't already on the Dread Necro list is Astral Projection.  Kinda sad that so few were printed.

[Suzerain]

Turns out, the only 9th level Necromancy spell I can find that isn't already on the Dread Necro list is Astral Projection.  Kinda sad that so few were printed.

Astral Projection (M)
Enervating Breath
Eternity of Torture (Pain 9) [BoVD]
Hero's Blade [ECS]
Hide Life (XP) [T&B]
Necrotic Termination (F) (XP) [LM]
Sanctify the Wicked (F) (Sanctified 9) [BoED]
Soul Bind (F)
Weighed in the Balance (Balance 9)

Um, yeah, overall not a lot of (useful) spells. Domain spells, sanctified, deathless spells, cyst spells, 3.0 spells... the only spells a DN would probably look at are astral projection, enervating breath and soul bind (and those are all Wizard spells).


Hide Life is a quirky little spell, by the way. You put your life force away in a receptable. Makes you unable to die. But if you're in the negative hitpoints, you're staggered. And if anything happens that normally would kill you (if not for this spell), then there's no way to increase your hitpoint total (except drowning of course) and you're staggered until someone destroys your receptable (at which point you die). Of course, if you rule that undead are immune to the 'staggered' condition (since it's normally caused by nonlethal damage)... then it's like delay death with instantaneous duration.

[snakeman830]

Huh, Hide Life sorta gives a second phylactry (and more can be made).  That actually may be a really useful spell.