Avatar d20 fixes

[Zuki]

Well, I ended up going home much later than I expected to, as a friend wanted to go out for some celebratory First-Day-of-Class-Over foodstuffs. Seeing as we went to that neat Jamaican restaurant in Baltimore city, I can hardly complain.

In short, I prefer System Alpha.

Before this discussion came up, I had assumed that we were using System One, with the pool of points available for exceed augmentations being what was left over after increase augmentations had been spent. This made sense given the language, but gave the impression that choosing ones augmentations was a resource management decision; one could focus on the increases or augments available, opting for damage or other effects, or opt for a lesser degree of each kind of augmentation.

System Alpha, it seemed, lets Aang have his cake and eat it too. I liked this better, but I was worried that allowing exceed augmentations to autoscale would overpower things a bit. Now that I've run the numbers a bit, I'm not worried about this being the case in the least. Additionally, I think it is simpler to calculate augmentations in System Alpha, rather than having to decide where to 'split the pool' by only increasing a certain amount, then leaving the rest to the exceed augment, etc, etc.

Ease of use for player and a moderate increase in overall power for benders wins my vote.

[dman11235]

System Alpha it is.  I told you we'd have one before today was done;)  However I also wanted Avatar Beat up today...fail.  By beta I mean going through everything thoroughly.  Fail, fail, and more fail.  I fail.  Tomorrow, I might be able to do it.  I hope I'm able to do it.  We're busy now that students are back, so I'm going in earlier now, and I stayed up too late, so we'll see how it goes.

[dman11235]

I might not get through all of Air, but I'll try.  Been a long day, and tomorrow's going to be longer.

First off, I'd like to say that the nomenclature needs to change.  "pool" implies something's there to take from.

Agitate Dust:

Needs the clauses of Dust Cloud from Earth about wind speeds negating it at various stages.  Also, a good augment would be allowing it to be created at greater wind speeds.  Not sure the amount though.  Maybe...+10 per wind speed increase to maintain it in?  Though, combined with Control Winds it shouldn't be a problem.

Dirt Spray:

Needs to not be copy/paste, but is otherwise fine.

Air Blast:

So....is it all non-lethal?  And a bull-rush?  Or is there an option of damage or non-lethal bull-rush?  Clarify.  IMO the bull-rush should be an augment option, rather than base.

Air Scooter:

....needs augments.  Something.  Better speed, higher movement, something.  I vote speed boosts and a reduction to maintenance action.  Also an (exceed?) augment granting a bonus to balance while using it.

Breath Stealer:

Needs a DC augment.  Maybe an augment to increase the duration they have to gasp to recover their breath.  In this case lower the duration of gasping to one round (maybe 2) so you have somewhere to go from (this isn't too powerful, since it's a fortx2 save or most likely die).  Also, state more clearly the effects of failing that fort save (subsequent ones, not the initial).

Control Winds:

I can't see anything wrong with it.

Flowing Air Strike:

needs augments.  Maybe a damage one?  Allow damage to come from this accuracy?  Maybe one to allow the negation (or better yet, reduction) of miss chances?  Not sure how the flavor of that last one will work..but it fits mechanically with the theme...

Funnel:

I'd lower the augments for increasing length to /3 or 4 (probably /3, by level 20 you should be capable of some pretty amazing stuff) and additional funnels to something like +7-10.  I don't know, what are the other similar ones at (earth and water)?

Hand of Wind seems fine

Heavenly Stride:

Needs augments.  Both do.  Not really sure what fits though.  Also, are you aware that Windrunner doesn't end?  Ever?  Or rather, ends instantaneously.  Slap a duration on that, concentration of swift or probably free works.

Hurricane Breath:

needs...augments....but....template?  Maybe template is better suited for this...just add it to any other seed, and you're golden.

That's Levitation homes!

Well, Twinkletoes needs some other augment, but otherwise I think it's fine.

Puppet:

see other uses of Puppet.

Shockwave:

needs a damage and DC augment.  Nothing major, +1 DC/+5 increase, +1 dice size/+7 exceed maybe (what's that yield as standard?  4d6/BL...yikes, that's a bit much.  /10?  That's 2d6/BL, that's acceptable.).  That DC one is a guess, it yields a DC 38 with no increase in length or push-back.  Maybe make it /7 for DC 35ish.

Somersault:

Wtf?  It's kinda random....and needs more to justify having it as its own seed.  it's not even all that powerful.  First of the tumble DC needs a way to scale (larger creatures are more difficult, more threatening is more difficult).  Second you need to gain some benefit for doing this.  Bonus damage as an augment.  Or bonus damage that can get augmented.  I like the first one for this.  Set it as an augment that's a high level increase (relatively), and gives you an "exceed" damage increase.  Maybe a bonus to attack based on your tumble check, to make that still useful past making the base.

Soundbending:

more augments!  For the first one, the first thing that came to mind was duration increase +1 round per+.....6 or so.  Also, you have a bit of a discrepancy.  You say it's fort half, yet the damage isn't halved with a save.

Wind Whisper needs clarification.  I can't tell if you are targeting the source of the sound or the listener.  Really, you should be able to target an area, and sound within that area is muffled.  Sound coming in or going out, so listeners in that area take a penalty (or get a bonus) and sneakers in that area get a bonus (or a penalty).  Also, why not just have it be a 1/1 trade?  It's close enough, and this grants more bonuses during in-between time (less dead skill).  Also needs an area boost.  So have it be an area, and not a target, and have an area boost, and a maintain reduction.  And have the ability to move it.

Twister:

While AWESOME, this needs augments.  Make it grow, so it can handle bigger things.  Make it do more damage.  Make it higher.  Make more of them.

Wind Barrier:

Seems fine actually.

Wind Burst:

Wis, not str.  You should use wis, not str on the bull-rush.  You aren't doing the BR, your bending is.  Also needs a BR bonus augment.  Maybe change the damage to exceed and replace it with a +1/2 BR augment.

I....I got through....Wo...w.....*collapse*

[AstralFire]

Will look at the individual seeds in a few hours, I want to get out 2-3 good resumés first.

Wording suggestions?

[AstralFire]

Blah, never had the time yesterday.

Zuki and I'll be out for a few days, so no responses probably 'til Sunday evening.

[dman11235]

No worries, gives me time to do Fire.

[AstralFire]

Haven't forgotten about this. Let's just say that overall the weekend could have gone better. Z and I are both okay, though mildly pissed at a number of different things.

Currently, compy is borked and I can't do anything with the PDF until replacement parts come in a few days. So I'm taking this as an excuse to work on my new project: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1752.msg47848#msg47848

[dman11235]

Wow.  You had comp trouble at the same time I did.  Mine won't turn on   This is especially bad since all my bookmarks are on there.  And my various projects back-ups and originals.  Soon as I can get it working again: flash drive copying all my important files so I can access them anywhere.  And there is no if.  That stuff is too important.  Well yeah, that's part of the reason I didn't get to Fire today like I planned.  The other reason is that ATT absolutely sucks and has been hickuping for the last three days.  More than usual.  And has been going out at least three times a day lately.  I'll try to get to Fire tomorrow, but knowing that nothing can be done relieves a bit of pressure there.

[dman11235]

Fire time!  Side note: I hate typing on my dad's laptop.

Breath of the Dragon:

First off: augments.  Ideas: remove larger states of fatigue, better bonus on the next bending check, and possibly removing physical ability damage.  Also, make it clear whether the conditions go away when discharged or if you have to go the whole distance to get these benefits.  I recommend having it require that you let it go the full duration to heal the conditions.

Burning Edge:

Needs a damage augment.  The reach augment seems out of place.  Maybe a crit augment or something.  Base looks fine though.

Claw of the Pheonix:

Why does this ignore miss-chances?  Also, why cap the dice size increase?  Change it to +1d6/BL on the exceed (so the exceed makes it 2d6/BL, then 3, then 4, then 5), though you'll need to get a 50 (not easy) on the exceed to get a whopping 3d6/BL under the current one.  This helps keep it viable into epic (something we need to worry about eventually), since damage becomes increasingly ineffective at really high levels.  Not sure though.  Just seems to me that exceeds shouldn't be capped.  Idea: have it ignore a portion of miss-chance: by reducing them.  Have an augment increase the reduction.  Still not sure why it's there though.  Speed doesn't help you negate them, speed makes you more accurate.

Cold Fire:

This looks fine.  Side note: I disagree on blue fire.  It's all flavor: she's a really high level, and her fire is just blue.

Combustion+Explosion:

These two I lumped together because of whatever that guy's name was.  The explody guy?  Yeah, him.  So yeah, it seems to me that Combustion should either be what he does, or should be an AoE like Fireball.  Personally I like the Explosion template.  You should be able to get explosive seeds other than just this (and I'm pretty sure it has some small references in the show), but these two seeds seem to want to be ale to do what he does, but they don't.  Here's how I see it: Combustion should be Fireball, basically.  That guy who I can't remember was using an Explosive one.  So: Combustion: creates the bead, flies out, deals damage to the object struck of 1d6/BL.  Deals damage in an area (start 10' radius) of 1d6/BL, the original target is also caught in this.  Augments inlcude an area augment, possibly a damage one (what else does fire have?), possibly something else.  Explosion: template to any open flame, initiate bull rush, half damage extra in bludgeoning (bull rush damage?), bull rush doesn't use str/BAB, uses BL/wis.  Bonus on bull rush as exceed?  Can you have augments on a template?  Bull rush is in the direction of the blast, or outward from AoE ones.

Fire Blast:

Yay!  Fire to the face!

Fire Spin:

I'd up the area augment to 5 (I know!  It's the first time I said up it!)  Mainly because it doesn't strike me as a very high-area maneuver.

Flamethrower:

The area augment is off.  You are restricted to +30' or +5' width?  Why not two augments: +10 for +5' width, +2 for +5' length.  This comes to slightly slower than what it is now on length.  I'd also make it +3/45 degree turn.  More control=better.

Heat Control:

Needs more Heat Metal.  Incandescence needs a maintain action to increase the heat.  Deals +1d4 over the previous round.  Augment to increase the cap on this, which is normally +2 steps, or 2d4.  +1d4/+3.  Otherwise I don't see much use for this seed.  Same thing almost goes for vent, just that a clause needs to be added: goes back to normal after you stop concentrating.  If this is cooler (i.e., room temp after Incandescence), then the damage lowers as appropriate.  If it's warmer (i.e. vent on a fire elemental) things go back to normal.

Heatwave:

Debuffs are nice....but why?  I like it, but why?  Also, should apply to the target of the original attack, in addition to the other effects.  Maybe an augment to increase the duration?  Area?  Probably not area.  Just duration: +1 round/+10 DC.

Inner Flames:

nice.  but the HP is a bit low.  Have the augment do something nifty.  Like, increasing resistance to con damage or something.  Ooh!  bonus on fort saves against fatigue related things.

Lifebending:

I like it, but it's a bit bland.  Hows about an augment to grant bonus con and/or str, and/or HP?  I'll have to think of more and ways to do these things tomorrow (i.e., later today).

Magnify Flames:

So...is the base DC the difference between the two?  Or is it the DC of the one you want to get it to?

Move Flames:

+5'/+1 DC.  +1 5' cube/+3 DC.

Puppet:

see other Puppets.

Pyrotechnics:

Try splitting them into two maneuvers.  For the blinding one, augments for DC increase and for blindness duration increase.  Also, it needs a duration on the dazzled.  As long as they look at the flame.  The fascinate effect needs a DC augment, and an increase penalty augment.  Maybe an augment to make it last longer than a breaking effect would have it last.

Redirect:

Needs more.  First off, augments.  Allow more redirects/turn.  1/5-10 should do it.  Somewhere in there.  Maybe more.  Second, it seems limited in anything not canon.  Discuss fixes to this?  Maybe an ability to retaliate a la Circular Attack?

Soaring Flames:

Hurdle: needs a boost on the amount traveled: +10/+5'.  I'd say get rid of the jump check as well.  I'd also start it out as a 5' step, since you can't make 5' steps in difficult terrain.  Lower the initial DC to 15.
Rising Dawn: add an augment for a boost to the jump check.  Just think of how far Azula managed to go by the end of the series.  +1/1
Rising Phoenix: Add a maneuverability augment: +1 step/+10 exceed.  Maybe +15.

Sweeping Flames:

Nice, but seems to me the areas are all...very similar, yet this is a template?  Discussion needed.

Wall of Fire:

Look to the spell for inspiration.  First off, needs damage.  2d6+1/BL does it.  Second off, have it deal 1d6 damage within 5' of it.  Augments for increased damage possible, of +1d6/+3 DC, but that likely won't be as useful as the lengthening augments, so it's all fine.  These are to the wall itself, not the aura of pain.  Also one for duration after concentrating.  +1 round/+10 does it.  Won't be used.....at all at this though, so probably less.  I'm tired.

Okay, that could have gone much better.  Pay heed to my later ones, but take them with a grain of salt, since my brain is not functioning well right now.

[AstralFire]

Okay, I have... temporary access to this computer, I'm not sure how long this solution will be stable. Hopefully only a week for Eduardo's replacement. (What should I name the new computer?)

Beginning the list.

[AstralFire]

I might not get through all of Air, but I'll try.  Been a long day, and tomorrow's going to be longer.

First off, I'd like to say that the nomenclature needs to change.  "pool" implies something's there to take from.

Still open for ideas here.

Agitate Dust:

Needs the clauses of Dust Cloud from Earth about wind speeds negating it at various stages.  Also, a good augment would be allowing it to be created at greater wind speeds.  Not sure the amount though.  Maybe...+10 per wind speed increase to maintain it in?  Though, combined with Control Winds it shouldn't be a problem.

It's there. I think Control Winds should handle the issue, as I kinda feel like being able to make it significantly harder windforce would also make an argument for Air getting Sandswallow, logically.

Air Blast:

So....is it all non-lethal?  And a bull-rush?  Or is there an option of damage or non-lethal bull-rush?  Clarify.  IMO the bull-rush should be an augment option, rather than base.

Clarified and done, respectively.

Air Scooter:

....needs augments.  Something.  Better speed, higher movement, something.  I vote speed boosts and a reduction to maintenance action.  Also an (exceed?) augment granting a bonus to balance while using it.

Done, those are good. I couldn't find a way to make Air Scooter more useful, that does a lot.

Breath Stealer:

Needs a DC augment.  Maybe an augment to increase the duration they have to gasp to recover their breath.  In this case lower the duration of gasping to one round (maybe 2) so you have somewhere to go from (this isn't too powerful, since it's a fortx2 save or most likely die).  Also, state more clearly the effects of failing that fort save (subsequent ones, not the initial).

Done.

Flowing Air Strike:

needs augments.  Maybe a damage one?  Allow damage to come from this accuracy?  Maybe one to allow the negation (or better yet, reduction) of miss chances?  Not sure how the flavor of that last one will work..but it fits mechanically with the theme...

No, I can totally see it. You're sensing them in the air, that makes it harder for them to fool you. But it already does come with damage.

Funnel:

I'd lower the augments for increasing length to /3 or 4 (probably /3, by level 20 you should be capable of some pretty amazing stuff) and additional funnels to something like +7-10.  I don't know, what are the other similar ones at (earth and water)?

They're all pretty much identical.

Heavenly Stride:

Needs augments.  Both do.  Not really sure what fits though.  Also, are you aware that Windrunner doesn't end?  Ever?  Or rather, ends instantaneously.  Slap a duration on that, concentration of swift or probably free works.

Well, Cloudwalker sort of has a built in 'auto augment' since your bending check directly powers your jump.

Made it a swift.

Hurricane Breath:

needs...augments....but....template?  Maybe template is better suited for this...just add it to any other seed, and you're golden.

Done. I forget why I changed it from a template.

Shockwave:

needs a damage and DC augment.  Nothing major, +1 DC/+5 increase, +1 dice size/+7 exceed maybe (what's that yield as standard?  4d6/BL...yikes, that's a bit much.  /10?  That's 2d6/BL, that's acceptable.).  That DC one is a guess, it yields a DC 38 with no increase in length or push-back.  Maybe make it /7 for DC 35ish.

Done.

Somersault:

Wtf?  It's kinda random....and needs more to justify having it as its own seed.  it's not even all that powerful.  First of the tumble DC needs a way to scale (larger creatures are more difficult, more threatening is more difficult).  Second you need to gain some benefit for doing this.  Bonus damage as an augment.  Or bonus damage that can get augmented.  I like the first one for this.  Set it as an augment that's a high level increase (relatively), and gives you an "exceed" damage increase.  Maybe a bonus to attack based on your tumble check, to make that still useful past making the base.

I thought it was a useful 'offensive' version of Deflect Attack to help the airbender not be so passive, but I can see where you're coming from. Mostly was worried about overdoing it, since the bigger they are, the more distance you are jumping as an immediate action. Came up with a wording thing to deal with that though.

Soundbending:

more augments!  For the first one, the first thing that came to mind was duration increase +1 round per+.....6 or so.  Also, you have a bit of a discrepancy.  You say it's fort half, yet the damage isn't halved with a save.

Wind Whisper needs clarification.  I can't tell if you are targeting the source of the sound or the listener.  Really, you should be able to target an area, and sound within that area is muffled.  Sound coming in or going out, so listeners in that area take a penalty (or get a bonus) and sneakers in that area get a bonus (or a penalty).  Also, why not just have it be a 1/1 trade?  It's close enough, and this grants more bonuses during in-between time (less dead skill).  Also needs an area boost.  So have it be an area, and not a target, and have an area boost, and a maintain reduction.  And have the ability to move it.

Fixed. Should have been 'partial'.

Actually, the way you saw it was the way I meant it.

Twister:

While AWESOME, this needs augments.  Make it grow, so it can handle bigger things.  Make it do more damage.  Make it higher.  Make more of them.

It's already pretty nice damage given that it is almost impossible to escape the twister - it doesn't cease movement until after it hits a target, so you can keep trying over and over again making it guaranteed damage unless the target has an insane Reflex.

Wind Barrier:

Seems fine actually.

Wind Burst:

Wis, not str.  You should use wis, not str on the bull-rush.  You aren't doing the BR, your bending is.  Also needs a BR bonus augment.  Maybe change the damage to exceed and replace it with a +1/2 BR augment.

How about the reverse?

"- For every two points that you exceed the base difficulty class, you gain a +1 bonus to your Bull Rush attempt with this form."

[AstralFire]

Fire time!  Side note: I hate typing on my dad's laptop.

I hear ya. My parents' computers suck too.

Breath of the Dragon:

First off: augments.  Ideas: remove larger states of fatigue, better bonus on the next bending check, and possibly removing physical ability damage.  Also, make it clear whether the conditions go away when discharged or if you have to go the whole distance to get these benefits.  I recommend having it require that you let it go the full duration to heal the conditions.

Done.

Burning Edge:

Needs a damage augment.  The reach augment seems out of place.  Maybe a crit augment or something.  Base looks fine though.

Zuko uses fire whips, and you can use them to channel fire blasts, so I think the damage should be good.

Claw of the Pheonix:

Why does this ignore miss-chances?  Also, why cap the dice size increase?  Change it to +1d6/BL on the exceed (so the exceed makes it 2d6/BL, then 3, then 4, then 5), though you'll need to get a 50 (not easy) on the exceed to get a whopping 3d6/BL under the current one.  This helps keep it viable into epic (something we need to worry about eventually), since damage becomes increasingly ineffective at really high levels.  Not sure though.  Just seems to me that exceeds shouldn't be capped.  Idea: have it ignore a portion of miss-chance: by reducing them.  Have an augment increase the reduction.  Still not sure why it's there though.  Speed doesn't help you negate them, speed makes you more accurate.

I was thinking you basically asploded the entire targeted cube, so no place to really be dodging in.

Cold Fire:

This looks fine.  Side note: I disagree on blue fire.  It's all flavor: she's a really high level, and her fire is just blue.

Well, that's the other way to look at it, but you'd get some people yelling "but a prodigy shouldn't take extra experience to represent!" That is how I would stat her character though.

Combustion+Explosion:

These two I lumped together because of whatever that guy's name was.  The explody guy?  Yeah, him.  So yeah, it seems to me that Combustion should either be what he does, or should be an AoE like Fireball.  Personally I like the Explosion template.  You should be able to get explosive seeds other than just this (and I'm pretty sure it has some small references in the show), but these two seeds seem to want to be ale to do what he does, but they don't.  Here's how I see it: Combustion should be Fireball, basically.  That guy who I can't remember was using an Explosive one.  So: Combustion: creates the bead, flies out, deals damage to the object struck of 1d6/BL.  Deals damage in an area (start 10' radius) of 1d6/BL, the original target is also caught in this.  Augments inlcude an area augment, possibly a damage one (what else does fire have?), possibly something else.  Explosion: template to any open flame, initiate bull rush, half damage extra in bludgeoning (bull rush damage?), bull rush doesn't use str/BAB, uses BL/wis.  Bonus on bull rush as exceed?  Can you have augments on a template?  Bull rush is in the direction of the blast, or outward from AoE ones.

Combustion Man. He does combustion.

Problem with making it fireball rather than disintegrate is that he's supposed to be the most destructively powerful firebender we see in the show, and fireball does underwhelming damage after a while (even to objects, even if it was changed to hit them for full damage rather than half) and making it deal more raw damage than Claw of the Phoenix seems to be an iffy idea. This also has the advantage of giving fire access to a not-elemental attack.

Wary of it adding raw damage since I see Explosion + Fire Blast + Greater Flurry being very popular for the multiple bull rush attempts a round to play keep away.

Fire Spin:

I'd up the area augment to 5 (I know!  It's the first time I said up it!)  Mainly because it doesn't strike me as a very high-area maneuver.

Done.

Flamethrower:

The area augment is off.  You are restricted to +30' or +5' width?  Why not two augments: +10 for +5' width, +2 for +5' length.  This comes to slightly slower than what it is now on length.  I'd also make it +3/45 degree turn.  More control=better.

Done.

Heat Control:

Needs more Heat Metal.  Incandescence needs a maintain action to increase the heat.  Deals +1d4 over the previous round.  Augment to increase the cap on this, which is normally +2 steps, or 2d4.  +1d4/+3.  Otherwise I don't see much use for this seed.  Same thing almost goes for vent, just that a clause needs to be added: goes back to normal after you stop concentrating.  If this is cooler (i.e., room temp after Incandescence), then the damage lowers as appropriate.  If it's warmer (i.e. vent on a fire elemental) things go back to normal.

Ranged sunder in one round, no save for the object under the current scheme.  11d4 or 27 damage (achievable in mid-teens) will destroy any weapon or armor without at least +3 of true enhancement bonus.

Heatwave:

Debuffs are nice....but why?  I like it, but why?  Also, should apply to the target of the original attack, in addition to the other effects.  Maybe an augment to increase the duration?  Area?  Probably not area.  Just duration: +1 round/+10 DC.

Heat sickness is the rationale. Havoc of the X-Men uses heat to do that + headaches often.

Inner Flames:

nice.  but the HP is a bit low.  Have the augment do something nifty.  Like, increasing resistance to con damage or something.  Ooh!  bonus on fort saves against fatigue related things.

Cranked up the HP a bit and added that + against fatigue.

Lifebending:

I like it, but it's a bit bland.  Hows about an augment to grant bonus con and/or str, and/or HP?  I'll have to think of more and ways to do these things tomorrow (i.e., later today).

It's already pretty strong, since it improves basically every area of a character. I'm leery of adding more.

Magnify Flames:

So...is the base DC the difference between the two?  Or is it the DC of the one you want to get it to?

Clarified: "The difficulty class of this form is found on the table below, next to the entry for either the strength that you want to magnify a fire to, or the strength that the fire is. (Whichever is higher.) "

Move Flames:

+5'/+1 DC.  +1 5' cube/+3 DC.

Done.

Pyrotechnics:

Try splitting them into two maneuvers.  For the blinding one, augments for DC increase and for blindness duration increase.  Also, it needs a duration on the dazzled.  As long as they look at the flame.  The fascinate effect needs a DC augment, and an increase penalty augment.  Maybe an augment to make it last longer than a breaking effect would have it last.

They seem a little weak split into two, given that one's non-combat only. Dazzling has a duration of one round or as long as the flame is there, to vary based on the base flame. (As long as the flame is there is not very useful for say, fire blast.)

Redirect:

Needs more.  First off, augments.  Allow more redirects/turn.  1/5-10 should do it.  Somewhere in there.  Maybe more.  Second, it seems limited in anything not canon.  Discuss fixes to this?  Maybe an ability to retaliate a la Circular Attack?

Done to the first. To the second, with Cold Fire, you're moving any electricity or flame, which is a lot of what the monsters can do. And it means a party carrying a blaster is free to have him say, drop a Flame Strike with almost reckless abandon on your party without metamagic. That can be nice.

Soaring Flames:

Hurdle: needs a boost on the amount traveled: +10/+5'.  I'd say get rid of the jump check as well.  I'd also start it out as a 5' step, since you can't make 5' steps in difficult terrain.  Lower the initial DC to 15.
Rising Dawn: add an augment for a boost to the jump check.  Just think of how far Azula managed to go by the end of the series.  +1/1
Rising Phoenix: Add a maneuverability augment: +1 step/+10 exceed.  Maybe +15.

We're talking... 80 foot horizontal jumps with a 20 foot vertical component. Does it need an additional augment?

Sweeping Flames:

Nice, but seems to me the areas are all...very similar, yet this is a template?  Discussion needed.

It turns the current combustion as well as Claw of the Phoenix into a close range area of death, and you can do iterative area attacks with Fire Blast this way.

Wall of Fire:

Look to the spell for inspiration.  First off, needs damage.  2d6+1/BL does it.  Second off, have it deal 1d6 damage within 5' of it.  Augments for increased damage possible, of +1d6/+3 DC, but that likely won't be as useful as the lengthening augments, so it's all fine.  These are to the wall itself, not the aura of pain.  Also one for duration after concentrating.  +1 round/+10 does it.  Won't be used.....at all at this though, so probably less.  I'm tired.

If used with Magnify Flames, its damage jumps up a lot, hence why it doesn't do any inherent damage, basically.

[dman11235]

I'll get to these later (probably tomorrow), but first I'd like to go over some proposed feats, since feats are good.

We need: feats that represent the bending universe, feats that improve bending, feats that "emulate" bending (Ty Lee style), and maybe feats that combine classes (benders+"mundane").

First couple I've been holding back for a while now:

Making bending better:

Extra Seed: grants an extra seed known.  Prereq of fundamental seed knowledge.
Focused Seed: grants bonus on bending checks when utilizing chosen seed.  Prereq of knowledge of the seed.  Probably a +4 bonus.

Representing the universe:

Greater Combat Reflexes: extra AoOs=wis mod.  Prereqs of Combat Reflexes and wis 13+.
Superior Combat Reflexes: infinite AoOs/round.  Prereqs of GCR and wis 15+ and dex 15+.  Maybe 15+ and 17+ respectively.
Dexterous Combatant: use dex for trip, disarm, grap, etc.  Maybe a bonus equal to dex instead, so it's a better feat than WF (which sucks since it's a feat to make a combat style possible, rather than augmenting it).  Prereqs include Wp. Finesse, dex 15+.  Maybe a prereq of Combat Expertise, but I don't think so.
Intuitive Attack: as BoED, only NOT EXALTED and any weapon.

combining Classes (just brainstorming for these ones, I don't really have any good ideas, just some ideas):

one for monks+benders
One for scouts+airbenders
fighters+firebenders
clerics+benders

[AstralFire]

Yeah, those first two are already in there, though I went lower than a +4. I don't see the harm in bumping it up.

I would suggest Greater be named Intuitive personally.

Not sure how I feel about Dexterous Combatant, but I like Intuitive attack.

[dman11235]

It's always irked me that you can't use dex to trip or disarm.  Or grapple, but that one's a bit more reasonable (though I've seen weak yet dextrous people capable of holding others).  And having a single feat that just swaps a stat is stupid, since you shouldn't need a feat to do your character concept, it should just make it more viable, so this would apply to all combat forms.  And even without those feats as prereq, you won't be skipping on feats since you'll still want those feats to do these things.

The reason it's Greater instead of Intuitive: feat chain.  Though, what's in a name?

Also....we already have feats?!?!

EDIT: Oh, and item: an amulet like the AoMF for bending.  However: I have no idea if special weapon abilities should be added.  I mean, on the one hand, this is the biggest problem with unarmed fighting, the lack of enhancements.  On the other, it doesn't make sense...much sense is many cases.  In some cases it's fine, but flaming on water?  Air?  Things like that.  Your gauntlets I see do this, but I thought I'd bring this up for discussion.  Cause it's one of the biggest uncertainties I have about this, whether or not balance and flavor would mind having special abilities.

EDIT 2: That waterbending feat.....doesn't do anything.  You can already make multiple Circular Attacks per round.

[AstralFire]

Ah, I forgot to update that feat when Circular Attack got a boost.

Yeah, I didn't want to bring the feats up yet since we already had a lot to work on, I just added them as ideas came to me.

Anyway, all of those are going up on the PDF in a min.

Do we really need class combiner feats? Bending already progresses somewhat out of class. If we're going to have those feats, we may want to rethink the half level progression thing.

[dman11235]

The combining class feats will be like Swift Hunter or Ascetic Mage or the like.  The cross class BL increases would be beneficial to all the other 45+ classes that don't have a class combining feat.  And that's just official classes.  The combination feats would be for things that combine two similar yet distinctly different classes, like monk+bender, or things like fighter+firebender, since in the show there are more martial firebenders (think mooks).  Cleric as well just seems flavorful.  We definitely aren't going to have a combination feats for each and every class, just 3-5 or so.  Maybe one for each bender, monk, cleric, and maybe one more, but that's about the extent of it.  Though I'm not really sure about them, they were just an idea.

I'm bringing up feats now because I felt we were about ready for them.  Just to start the brainstorming as we finish up beta on fire and air, since water and earth are already ready.  I'ma just keeping it a rollin'!

I'll have my responses up later tonight.

[dman11235]

Okay, this is insane.  I'm going to go over all responses today and tomorrow.  With or without a computer.  Starting.......now.

Agitate Dust:

Needs the clauses of Dust Cloud from Earth about wind speeds negating it at various stages.  Also, a good augment would be allowing it to be created at greater wind speeds.  Not sure the amount though.  Maybe...+10 per wind speed increase to maintain it in?  Though, combined with Control Winds it shouldn't be a problem.

It's there. I think Control Winds should handle the issue, as I kinda feel like being able to make it significantly harder windforce would also make an argument for Air getting Sandswallow, logically.

No it's not......and Dust Cloud doesn't have them either.....hmm....I actually meant this:

A moderate wind or water current disperses the cloud 4
rounds after you cease concentration, a strong wind or
water current disperses the cloud in 1 round after you
cease concentration, and a severe wind or water current
prevents the cloud from even forming.

and augments to allow more resistance to wind speeds.  I'm not all too sure what they should be.

Air Scooter:

....needs augments.  Something.  Better speed, higher movement, something.  I vote speed boosts and a reduction to maintenance action.  Also an (exceed?) augment granting a bonus to balance while using it.

Done, those are good. I couldn't find a way to make Air Scooter more useful, that does a lot.

Those originally seemed too much, but I think they're fine now after looking at them more.

Flowing Air Strike:

needs augments.  Maybe a damage one?  Allow damage to come from this accuracy?  Maybe one to allow the negation (or better yet, reduction) of miss chances?  Not sure how the flavor of that last one will work..but it fits mechanically with the theme...

No, I can totally see it. You're sensing them in the air, that makes it harder for them to fool you. But it already does come with damage.

I know it already comes with damage, I WAS JUST THROWING OUT IDEAS.  Holy cow, I don't feel like retyping that.  Stupid caps lock.  Yes I realize I typed more afterwards than retyping that would be.

Anyways, that doesn't really match the flavor you have at all.  The way you have it, FAS is just aid you in making the strike.  So miss-chance wouldn't be a factor in that.  Just faster, smoother attacks, or attack bonus/damage.  Maybe some other effect (like a stunning on a large augment or something), but mainly that.  Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of accuracy for them, but right now it doesn't really fit.  I'd like to keep it, so I'd change it to +4/+5% to the miss chance.  That gives you a 50% drop in the miss chance (negating all miss chances) at 50.  The damage augment would be additional on top of that, because damage isn't as powerful as attack (unless damage is in large quantities, since you need to hit to do any damage at all).

Funnel:

I'd lower the augments for increasing length to /3 or 4 (probably /3, by level 20 you should be capable of some pretty amazing stuff) and additional funnels to something like +7-10.  I don't know, what are the other similar ones at (earth and water)?

They're all pretty much identical.

Okay then.  They should all be the same, more or less.

Shockwave:

needs a damage and DC augment.  Nothing major, +1 DC/+5 increase, +1 dice size/+7 exceed maybe (what's that yield as standard?  4d6/BL...yikes, that's a bit much.  /10?  That's 2d6/BL, that's acceptable.).  That DC one is a guess, it yields a DC 38 with no increase in length or push-back.  Maybe make it /7 for DC 35ish.

Done.

You think that damage will be fine with all those other augments?

Somersault:

Wtf?  It's kinda random....and needs more to justify having it as its own seed.  it's not even all that powerful.  First of the tumble DC needs a way to scale (larger creatures are more difficult, more threatening is more difficult).  Second you need to gain some benefit for doing this.  Bonus damage as an augment.  Or bonus damage that can get augmented.  I like the first one for this.  Set it as an augment that's a high level increase (relatively), and gives you an "exceed" damage increase.  Maybe a bonus to attack based on your tumble check, to make that still useful past making the base.

I thought it was a useful 'offensive' version of Deflect Attack to help the airbender not be so passive, but I can see where you're coming from. Mostly was worried about overdoing it, since the bigger they are, the more distance you are jumping as an immediate action. Came up with a wording thing to deal with that though.

Note that Sudden Leap allows a swift action jump quite a big distance.  And that's a level 1 maneuver.  This is a high level bender, who has movement as one of their signature abilities, and jump even more so.

I'd like to have something that relies on even bigger tumble checks in there.  I'm not sure if we can fit anything it there, but one of the biggest problems with the current skill system is that skills cap out, then they aren't useful anymore.  Balance?  5 ranks.  Tumble? +25 bonus, to be safe.  Diplomacy?  +34 bonus unless you want to be able to make hostile friendly or better on that action.  It doesn't really matter, it's just a big problem with the skill system.  The only ones not capped out in usefulness are those that are opposed checks.

Note that the DC for colossal is only 32.

It still feels a bit barren.  You have an exceed, then a set increase augment.  I'm just not sure what fits.

Twister:

While AWESOME, this needs augments.  Make it grow, so it can handle bigger things.  Make it do more damage.  Make it higher.  Make more of them.

It's already pretty nice damage given that it is almost impossible to escape the twister - it doesn't cease movement until after it hits a target, so you can keep trying over and over again making it guaranteed damage unless the target has an insane Reflex.

But the maintainance action is a full-round.  Which means that you aren't doing other things that might be more effective.  I would never take this seed right now because it is so restrictive and when I could actually use it Funnel would do about the same thing but actually allow me to do things other than harass the enemies.

Ideas to make it better: give the width increase augment an increase to the save DC (+4/increase should do it, it's basically a size bonus on trip, only for a save).  Maybe an exceed that does damage to things that it passes through, no save.  So that way it actually does do damage, no save, rather than existing as mobile difficult terrain (not really, just a catchy phrase).  I'm thinking an exceed of 1d6/2 points exceeded.  Maybe (a big maybe) a DC increase that's smaller than just the width increase, to allow a finer tuning of the bending DC.  +1/3.

Wind Burst:

Wis, not str.  You should use wis, not str on the bull-rush.  You aren't doing the BR, your bending is.  Also needs a BR bonus augment.  Maybe change the damage to exceed and replace it with a +1/2 BR augment.

How about the reverse?

"- For every two points that you exceed the base difficulty class, you gain a +1 bonus to your Bull Rush attempt with this form."

[/quote]

Why not.  Let's see how that plays out.



Okay, I'm tired.  I'll do more tomorrow, since I'm off (Yay!), and it's awesome.  I'll be able to do the fire bending response, as well as start on feats.  Because we're way behind.  And I hate the universe for such.  I didn't even do anything to it this time!  Not that I know off!  Did I step on your toe by accident Universe?  If so I'm sorry!  I didn't know I did it!

[AstralFire]

Unfortunately, until the computer gets repaired, I won't be able to make any changes to the PDF. Just as a head's up.

[dman11235]

Yeah, I know, but I want to keep discussion going, and getting through all these means all you have to do later is update them.  Good news though!  I'm getting a new monitor tomorrow!  Most likely!  And soon a new computer!  Unfortunately it'll cost like 300 dollars to get a different OS than Vista and the computer will lock up sometimes, so I'll have to get Vista.  Curses.  Why can't I just get free software?  It exists!  And it's good!

Also, I lied.  I forgot that I didn't have a computer, so I couldn't start on anything until...nowish.  I'll do the best I can, but I might not get through fire.  I'll keep trying though to finish everything ASAP.

Now, as for the updates to the PDF, don't sweat it.  We can get mechanical issues cleared here, and with the few things that need discussion to clear up, we can get through the discussion now, and you'll only have to update it once.