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Author Topic: Optimization: I was raised by wolves  (Read 1817 times)
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feral_child
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« on: June 17, 2011, 07:26:50 PM »

[3.5]

Well, not necessarily wolves. More like forest-dwelling creatures in general.

I want to know how best to optimize my character, using only classes relevant to his background. These classes include, but are not limited to:

Barbarian, Bear Warrior, Animal Lord, Fist of the Forest, Primeval, Berserk, Wildrunner

Note: My DM has ruled that there are no penalties for crossclassing/multiclassing


I'm stuck between like 5 different possible builds, none of which seem very good, so I want to see what you guys come up with.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 07:29:37 PM by feral_child » Logged
dark_samuari
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 07:31:34 PM »

What type of character do you want?
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feral_child
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 07:37:49 PM »

Oh, right. He will be a human. He is completely uncivilized. If he wears any armor, it would be leather. I haven't decided if he'll uses just his fists or some sort of primitive weapon.
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BrainCandy
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2011, 07:49:14 PM »

You could go Wildshape ranger variant into Master of many forms. You could then roam the forest in the guise of whatever animal or creature floats your boat.


Assuming you aren't interested in druid.
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dark_samuari
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2011, 08:05:32 PM »

You could go with a Quasi-lycanthrope Human Barbarian with both Wolf & Spirit Lion totems straight into Wolf Lord?
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Mixster
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2011, 08:15:50 PM »

So, what level are we looking at?
What power level do you want?
What kind of point buy?
Is Buy-off allowed?
Sources Allowed?

Also, when in doubt. Go with druid.

Anyway, here's a 32 point buy, 10th level, assuming buy-off is allowed. Also assuming pretty much all sources allowed, assuming partial BAB:
Feral(savage species) Half-Minotaur(dragon magazine 313) (both LA bought off) Human.
Monk 1/Scout 1 (complete adventurer)/Spirit Lion Totem (complete champion) Whirling Frenzy (UA) Barbarian 1/Ranger 2/Fist of the Forest (complete champion) 3 /Scout (complete adventurer) +2
Abilities: Str 34 (16+16racial+2levels); Dex 6 (10-4racial); Con 24 (16+8racial), Int 8 (14-6 racial), Wis 14(12+2 racial) cha 8.
AC 27=-2dex+7con+2wis+10natural+1Monk
Speed: 30 (base) +10 half-minotaur + 10 barbarian +10 fist of the forest +10 Feral = 70ft
Feats (pre-reqs marked with *): Improved Unarmed Strike* (monk bonus), Stunning Fist or improved grapple (monk bonus), track (half-minotaur bonus) beaststrike (dragon 355), great fortitude*, power attack*, swift hunter, Improved Skirmish, improved natural attack.
Items: Monks belt.
Full Attack: Flurry of blows: +19/+19/+14 (+21/+21/+16 when charging, +23/+23/+23/+18 when charging and raging). Damage is 3d8 (monk attack) +2d8 claw attack+12 (+4d6 when charging more than 20ft)per flurry hit. +16 Gore (2d6+12(+4d6 when charging more than 20ft)).

Granted this isn't the best 10th level build ever. But it's quite decent, it needs some sort of flight to be more effective. And swapping out the track from the ranger is probably a good idea.
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Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.

JaronK

Meep Meep - Mixster out
JaronK
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2011, 08:17:06 PM »

How about a nice basic Lion Totem Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Wild Shape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10?  All your abilities are animal themed, you can have great survival skills, and you can turn into ferocious animals and flip out and kill people whenever you need to.  Might want some unarmed strike in there somewhere for more attacks while you're at it, but that build still has some room in it.

JaronK
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skydragonknight
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2011, 08:22:49 PM »

And your theme song shall be..."Born to be Wild."
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It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.
BrainCandy
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2011, 08:33:47 PM »

How about a nice basic Lion Totem Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Wild Shape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10?  All your abilities are animal themed, you can have great survival skills, and you can turn into ferocious animals and flip out and kill people whenever you need to.  Might want some unarmed strike in there somewhere for more attacks while you're at it, but that build still has some room in it.

JaronK

That's more or less what I was thinking, but I was waiting to see if druid was an option.
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JaronK
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2011, 08:54:28 PM »

Come to think of it, finish with some Unarmed Swordsage focused on Tiger Claw maneuvers, and it should work out great.

JaronK
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Midnight_v
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2011, 09:42:51 PM »

Oh, right. He will be a human. He is completely uncivilized. If he wears any armor, it would be leather. I haven't decided if he'll uses just his fists or some sort of primitive weapon.
If you want hard-mode: I'd say barbarian
Easy Mode: Druid.
Beastmode: Totemist 
I say that because:
Barbarian  I know barbarian to be the classic example of this and I have played and love this archtype. You get to terrorize everyone around you with your wolf like howls (literally an expanded use of intimidate) and rip them to shreds the the rib bone of some giant beast (stats of a greatclub, great maul, or great sword depending).
 I can help you make a frenzied berserker that won't ever kill his friends, unless you want him too, and we can make it to where you have something to say outside of combat using intimidate, and really you ARE intimidating.
We may even be able to work animal lord into that a posteri because you have inspire frenzy. (I'm biased somewhat though, I wrote the book on barbarianism)
The benefit of this is you really are just a human man, who was raised by monster, cause he was lucky, chosen, or balls out to onery to kill as a youth, but you flip out like a wild beast if shit starts.
The drawback is you're a non caster.

Druid:  It is virtually impossible to go wrong with this class, you can shape shift into various awesome forms so you're a king in melee, you can fly if needed, you can go water from if you like... but most of all you have magic. At level 6 you get natural spell, and the world is never the same.
The benefit of this is that there are Soooo many resources you can tap to expand your in and out of combat usefulness (Druid handbook,wildshape handbook, druid quickstart guide, druid archer guide) while sticking to the same flavor, you're just not human all the time, but its most broken things are in the core books so no one can accuse you of munchkining who isn't a Char op regular.
There is no real drawback to this choice.

Totemist I add this because I feel like I have to be an honest guy. I don't know how to use incarnum, I really should have learned but I only have the book on computer and didn't read it thouroghly. However, I know, from reading Sinfire Titans awesome guides that this is one class that really fit the flavor of "Raised by Owlbears", because it give you the power to call upon the spirits of the monsters of the world and build your own wild man. I can't help you with it but I've heard aswesome things with it, and the flavor again is spot on because you dont' turn into a monster but you call the spirit of the girralon into you for the battle. It makes sense when you were raised by monsters.
Benefit: Spot on flavor
Drawback: its a new system, it comes with all the judgements and excuses not to let you play in the world.

Bonus,  and here something cool from the tome seris:
Quote
Raised by Owlbears
Tarzan was raised by an ape, Mowgli was raised by a bear, Romulus was raised by a wolf, and in the D&D world your character can be raised by creatures much more exotic. The sky is really the limit here: simply pick some improbable beast and your character was protected and fed as a small child by that beast after she was orphaned or abandoned in the wilderness. While I'd like to think that we've all read enough Burroughs that this story pretty much tells itself, the truth is even more astonishing. This character background has become cliché and we're totally fine with that. You can really have an interesting and memorable character with a clichéd backstory and a three sentence intro that ends with "And then I came to this village to reclaim my birthright as a gnome."
Effect: Characters who were raised by Girallon (or whatever) are arbitrarily able to talk to magical beasts and animals as if they shared a language. Noone knows how they do it, but they do. Unfortunately, such characters didn't grow up surrounded by humanoid languages, and your only starting language is Common no matter what your Intelligence is.
   
I'm sure you won't get to actually use that background power but this write up was cool as hell, figured I'd share it.

Good luck/Happy Gaming  and welcome to the boards. -Midnight_v
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X-Codes
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 10:19:22 PM »

Lion/Wolf (call it Leopard) Totem Barbarian 2/Totemist 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Totem Rager 10/Fist of the Forest +2

Easily gets 5+ Unarmed Strikes plus a Claw/Claw/Claw/Claw/Bite natural attack routine, all with Pounce.  You also get Improved Trip as a bonus feat.  You could drop your Intelligence score as low as 6 and still manage to satisfy skill pre-reqs and keep Intimidate maxed out rather easily.  Might want to finish out the build with a couple levels of Fighter in order to grab some extra bonus feats, although it's not strictly necessary.
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Dawnmor
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2011, 04:36:05 PM »

Well, You could go with Warforged, Barbarian/Fighter 2, then go into Frenzied Berzerker.

Half Ogre Barbarian/FB/Warhulk could be amusing.  To heck if you got a low Int, PLAY TO IT!!!.  Go feral template, if you got LA buy off even better.  Pump your Strength and use your claws, Pounce, Rake, Rage and Frenzy to grant an additionmal +14 Str (10 Frenzy with max FB and +4 str from Barbarian 1).

OR!, Half Ogre Monk 5 or 6/Barbarian 1/Fist of the Forest 3/Warhulk 10 (Thats an additional +20 str from that PRC), Whatever you got left over if anything into FB 1 if you go with Monk 5.

You could do a Barbarian/Sorcerer 1.  Go into Dragon Disciple to get turned into a Half Dragon but I am not 100% sure its worth it, but the spell MIGHTY WHALLOP could be amusing if you get it or its MIGHTY version , Do around a 100d10 damage or something with your claws or fist lol.  Could be amusing too and just a thought.  But personally a Kobold is better off as a sorcerer IMO.

Though could be amusing for a Lowly Kobold to go Barbarian Big Grin, then into FB and see the fear on the eyes of the enemy as this crazed Kobold who hates gnomes, comes RUSHING! out at them.  OHHH!!!!!!!! Kobold Barbarian/Ranger with dual weapon focus Laying the smack down.

Or you could go with a Dwarf Monk 5/FotF 3, Deep warden 2 (get Con to AC 2x), then either go into furthering Monk or perhaps Tattoo Monk for the nice tats?.

OR! if you really feel mean!, you could go into a Half Ogre Barbarian 10/That Grewyfeth (Not sure how its spelled its from BOED), get that PRC on him and your golden.  Personally I would just drop Barb down to 5, Grab FB to 5, then max out the PRC I mentioned.

It all depends on if you want a full strength character with limited intelligence or not.  I find I can get away with alot more fun with a lower Int compared to other classes, but I would keep Intimidate maxed.  But I rarely play smart characters because its too darn annoying to keep things straight.  But in the end its pretty much what you wanna do.  If you want to really be close to nature, grab VOP if not then dont worry about the Feat.  I just know being able to throw LARGE!!! arse javelins are fun for a good ranged weapon on a character with an immense strength.  If you REALLY!!! wanna throw on the abuse and you dont CARE about LA to add some change to your game, then grab Lycanthrope bear .  Thats TONS! of HP specially if you pack on the Con and drop Dex, and raise Strength and Con to whatever you want.  Then tag on the buffs from a good caster who knows whats what.  To get more abuse from your already impressive abilities.  I think I made a Half ogre awhile ago who went with Barbaria/FB/ and Warhulk.  THATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! was amusing too, because you could throw large rocks and do impressive damage, with your increased strength.  But I think a Gargantuan javelin flying at you VIA the Manticore endless javelin gloves would be more fun then a Rock Smile, but Rocks are a Giants thing.

There is also a spell in Relics and Ritual that allows you to cast the spell into say an ORB and you got a certain Lycanthrope template for a week.  Its like Belthsamers Blessing or something like that.
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feral_child
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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2011, 02:24:26 AM »

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

I kind of want to stay away from classes like Monk, Druid, and Fighter. Monks involve peaceful meditation and whatnot, druids are too easy, and fighters have formal training of some sort (at least that's how they picture them). Primitive classes like Barbarian are more the style I'm looking for.

I want to avoid Frenzied Beserker though only because it seems to be a "typical" Barbarian build, and I want to dive into classes I don't see everywhere.

After some thought and reading up on the classes you guys suggested, I was able to further narrow down my possible classes.
I really want to use Primeval. Roleplaying-wise, it's almost perfect. I want this class to be incorporated somehow, possibly taking the full 10 levels if it benefits me enough. To compliment him, I like Barbarian, Bear Warrior, Animal Lord personally. I've been toying with some ideas:

Bar 10 / Prime 10 - Max out Primeval as quickly as I can, and go as far as damage reduction 2/- for Barbarian and raging thrice per day.

Bar 5/ Anima 7 / Prime 7 - This is only 19 levels because I can't decide what is best to take last. Animal growth accompanied with summon seems to me like a pretty decent combination, and for that I sacraficed a few levels of Primeval. Not sure if that is the best option. Perhaps taking Animal Lord to 10 is more beneficial? Or maybe taking it to only 5 and Primeval to 10?

Bar 8/ Bear 5 / Prime 7 - This allows 3 rages as a Brown Bear per day along with 3 uses of Primeval Form per day. I only need 7 BAB to get to Bear Warrior, but that one extra level of Barbarian allows a third use of rage per day which I think is worth it.


What do you guys think of these ideas? Also, what do you guys think would be the best animal for Primeval Form? I don't fully understand the rule regarding hit dice, so I'm not sure what my selection is exactly. Also, if I use animal lord I don't know which type of lord I should be. Wolflord offers improved trip, but also a limited scent, which I obtain as a Primeval. Bearlord offers improved Grapple and claw weapons which allow for grappling without AoO. Decisions...decisions...
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Midnight_v
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« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2011, 09:03:18 AM »

Best Primeval form goes to ...
Giant Octopus.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864438/34;The_Black_Octopus34;_(CR_20_Encounter)
Even if you don't use it at all its worth your time for a case study of what's going on with the class.
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heroicraptor
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« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2011, 09:28:17 AM »

Bear Warrior has been errata'd to make you bear-hulk out every time you rage.
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stanprollyright
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« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2011, 09:56:36 AM »

How about a nice basic Lion Totem Wolf Totem Barbarian 2/Wild Shape Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms 10?

Don't forget to top that off with Warshaper.
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Andras
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« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2011, 04:43:23 PM »

Thanks for all of the replies everyone.

I kind of want to stay away from classes like Monk, Druid, and Fighter. Monks involve peaceful meditation and whatnot, druids are too easy, and fighters have formal training of some sort (at least that's how they picture them). Primitive classes like Barbarian are more the style I'm looking for.

I want to avoid Frenzied Beserker though only because it seems to be a "typical" Barbarian build, and I want to dive into classes I don't see everywhere.

After some thought and reading up on the classes you guys suggested, I was able to further narrow down my possible classes.
I really want to use Primeval. Roleplaying-wise, it's almost perfect. I want this class to be incorporated somehow, possibly taking the full 10 levels if it benefits me enough. To compliment him, I like Barbarian, Bear Warrior, Animal Lord personally. I've been toying with some ideas:

Bar 10 / Prime 10 - Max out Primeval as quickly as I can, and go as far as damage reduction 2/- for Barbarian and raging thrice per day.

Bar 5/ Anima 7 / Prime 7 - This is only 19 levels because I can't decide what is best to take last. Animal growth accompanied with summon seems to me like a pretty decent combination, and for that I sacraficed a few levels of Primeval. Not sure if that is the best option. Perhaps taking Animal Lord to 10 is more beneficial? Or maybe taking it to only 5 and Primeval to 10?

Bar 8/ Bear 5 / Prime 7 - This allows 3 rages as a Brown Bear per day along with 3 uses of Primeval Form per day. I only need 7 BAB to get to Bear Warrior, but that one extra level of Barbarian allows a third use of rage per day which I think is worth it.


What do you guys think of these ideas? Also, what do you guys think would be the best animal for Primeval Form? I don't fully understand the rule regarding hit dice, so I'm not sure what my selection is exactly. Also, if I use animal lord I don't know which type of lord I should be. Wolflord offers improved trip, but also a limited scent, which I obtain as a Primeval. Bearlord offers improved Grapple and claw weapons which allow for grappling without AoO. Decisions...decisions...

I like Barb8, Prim10, Warshaper* 2. Add in a couple doses of Animal Devotion for +sacred to str. I like the Dire Ape for Primeval because it retains a vaguely humanoid form and rend.

*Prim 10 makes you [shapechanger] to qualify for Warshaper- no stun/crit, extra attack, +4 to str/con when in your Primeval form.
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Dawnmor
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« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2011, 05:26:49 PM »

I was looking at the Ranger/druid book, called MASTERS OF THE WILD, there is a nice PRC that is called King/Queen of the Wild, where a 1 lvl PRC dip allows Grants you like 5 feats, they cant be changed but the added feats could be fun to use.

Not sure what to say on Primeval as I dont knpow where the book comes from, FB is used BECAUSE it was made for a Barbarian, so of course people will go for it.  If you want spells and such, if you want, look in BoED, and look up the Champion of Gwyfyth or whatever its called.  You get some neat spells, and your set.  Its a PRC where you quickly learn not to do the fatigue stuff.

Also there is a Feat thats called ROLL WITH IT, I think its out of Savage Species, but it essentially gives you 2/- DR each time you grab the feat, I think its for LARGE species though.

There is a Barbarian handbooks, oh heck, here....http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8753.0 tons of information in it and it has feats you could pick.

If you insist on going bear warrior then I suggest picking up atleast EXTRA RAGE atleast once, to get your Rage increased by anadditional 3/day.
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Andras
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« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2011, 07:28:33 PM »

Primeval is in Frostburn.

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