http://brilliantgameologists.com
April 24, 2017, 11:18:14 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: These boards are now READ ONLY. We've started over! So don't try posting here. Go here www.minmaxboards.com
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Ancient Temple-ToB for dual wielding with elegance and slicing almost everything  (Read 12294 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« on: May 31, 2011, 05:34:36 PM »

Ancient Temple

"The things my Youkai-Forged Blades cannot cut are next to none!"-Youmu Konpaku, Ancient Temple Master


Long ago, a noble woman raised as a ghost after her death. Whitout descendants, she declared she would keep running her lands and demanded all the conforts she enjoyed while alive. Most of her previous servants ran away in fear rather than work under an undead, but her loyal gardeners stood behind and did their best to tend the lady's gardens, serve her meals and tea, maintain the house and even patrol the property in the place of the missing guards. The lady was satisfied with being taken care off by this dedicated servants, and never ventured out from her lands. But the legend arose on how a powerfull ghost now ruled the area, and many undeads started converging on it. Despite their loyalty, the gardeners were powerless against many of the undeads since their working tools couldn't hurt them, and would've all die or worst. But the noble ghost intervened, and gifted her loyal servants with powerfull swords that could slice trough the unholy invaders. The gardeners destroyed all the undeads combining their skill honed from years of cuting plants with their new weapons, and their lady was pleased. Altough she was deeply religious and considered wrong to break the cycle of life by granting them immortality, she did greatly expand their lifespans. As for herself, she said she would one die make peace with the wordly affairs and ascend to nirvana, but that's another story. She stayed in this world, and soon her home became an Ancient Temple, with her previous gardeners as powerfull and skilled servants.

The gardeners, blessed with  increased lifes, dedicated themselves to develop a martial art that perfectly blended the elegant cuting of plants with the graceful cuting of those who dared to disturb their mistress lands. Some of them did grew weary of this monotonous life as they worked from dawn to night and weren't even geting paid anymore, leaving their  home to see the world, showing their special skill trough the world. Luckily for them the ghost mistress never atempted to get them back or showed any kind of spite, altough some wonder if she simply doesn't care as long as there's at least one servant taking care of her.

Ancient Temple became well renowed, but few can atempt to learn it tough as no other pair of weapons offer the balance and sharpness of a Youkai-Forged Blades and that's essential for unleashing the maneuvers from this school. And only their ghost mistress seems to be know the secret to get new ones, making many aspiring heroes to travel to her lands. The gardeners left behind always rise their children under this school, creating young martial artists of incredible skill. The favored weapons of this discipline are the Youkai-Forged blades that take the form of one-handed slashing melee weapons. The Discipline Skill is Profession(Gardener), as in order to know how to cut flesh and soul at the same time one must first learn how to gracefully cut trees and flowers. Altough some question if this philosophy is really true, the fact that it's upholded by gardener-warriors with centuries of experience that serve an aparently mad ghost doesn't leave much room for discussion if you wish to learn it.

This school is available only to those who take the Netherworld Gardener feat.

New Feat: NetherWorld Gardener
Prerequisites:
-Must be a creature that would eventualy die of old age.
-Must have been born and grown under the care of the Ghost Mistress or an Ancient Temple master. In alternative, you may seek them out yourself a pledge of loyalty. Kidnaped works too.
Benefit: In return for your pledge of loyalty to the Ghost Mistress, you're gifted with a pair of Youkai-Forged blades (which can also be handed to you by a willing Ancient Temple user). They're both single-hand melee slashing weapons of your choice you must already be proficient with, but at least one of them must be light. They're both of masterwork quality, and they automatically bond to you.

They feel like natural extensions of your body, allowing you to treat them both as light weapons whenever it would be benefical for you, while still being able to power attack with them. Altough they cannot be enchanted, they're indestructible, benefit from a permanent ghost touch effect, and count as magic for bypassing DR.

For the purposes of feats that affect a specific weapon, your pair of Youkai-Forged blades count as a single weapon, so for example you could take Weapon Focus (Youkai-Forged blades).

You can also now learn Ancient Temple maneuvers, wich can only be used with the Youkai-Forged blades. You must still give up one of your original schools if you're a martial initiator.

The pair of Youkai-Forged Blades also count as a single masterwork tool that grants a +2 Competence bonus on Profession(Gardener) checks.

Finally, your life expectancy is increased by a tenfold. If you ever attain immortality, you lose the ability to use Ancient Temple maneuvers as they're based on understanding and acepting the eternal cycle of death and rebirth.

Special: If you're a ranger, you may choose to swap several of your base features for extra affinity with the Ancient Temple school.
-Ranger levels always contribute full iniator level for Ancient Temple maneuvers instead of just half.
-You may swap Track and Wild Empathy gained at first level for the knowledge of two 1st level Ancient Temple Maneuvers and one 1st level Stance. You start every ecounter with the maneuvers automatically readied and you can recover each as a fullround action.
-If you have 3 Ranger levels, you may swap Endurance for the knowledge of two 2nd level Ancient Temple Maneuvers. You start every ecounter with the maneuvers automatically readied and you can recover each as a fullround action.
-If you have 4 or more Ranger levels, you may swap your Animal Companion for the ability to learn more Ancient Temple maneuvers and stances. At 4th level, and every Ranger level thereafter, you may remove a spell from your list of spells known to learn an Ancient Temple maneuver or stance of a level no bigger than (half Ranger level)-1. You can ready those maneuvers/stances in empty spell slots that are at least half the maneuver/stance's level, and recover each exended maneuver as a fullround action. If you learn the 9th level Stance and Maneuver from Ancient temple, you can ready them whitout the need of a spell slot, but only one of each. It can be recovered as a fullround action.
-At level 7, you may swap Woodland Stride for one extra Ancient Temple Maneuver or Stance known.
-At level 8, you may swap Swift Tracking for one extra Ancient Temple Maneuver or Stance known.
-At levels 14, 16, 18, 19 and 20 of Ranger, you may trade one more spell for another new Stance or Maneuver Known, but they must be one level lower than the highest level Maneuver you know.


Youki Konpaku, fabled first master of Ancient Temple.


Maneuvers


1st level

Aceptance of Life and Death: Strike–strike fear on an oponent with one of your swords while cuting out the fear from an ally.
Moment of Eternity: Boost-Fully focus on the task at hand.
200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash:Strike-Move at extreme speed while slicing a nearby oponent.
Intolerant Avici: Counter–punish oponent that missed an attack against you.
Fasting of the Young Ghost: Stance–partially separate your soul from yourself.

2nd level
Insightful Swords: Strike–release wave of energy from your blades.
Beast Realm Brute Sword: Strike–Combine your slashes with basic combat maneuvers.
Netherworld Reflection Slash: Counter–deflect ranged attacks with your swords.
Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused : Boost–next sucessful attack on the round may daze oponent, or you hit an ally under mental influence to bring them back to senses.

3rd level
Flashing Slash Formation as Karma Gust: Strike–Move even faster while slicing with both your swords.
Storybook of the Ghost Realm:Stance- divide your soul even more.
Asura Realm Ascension to NirvanaStrike-Smite your target with the beauty from your attacks.
Retribution of the Ten Hungry Kings:Boost- Your blades launch energy slashes

4th level
Mortal Realm Rise from Delusion:Strike–break out from negative condition and strike with both swords.
Flashing Cherry Blossoms: Boost–glowing flower petals fall around you concealing your next move.
Disappearing Elegance: Strike–gracefully vanish out of sight, then slice from impossible angles.
Obsession with the Present World:Boost-All your attacks this turn may daze your oponents.

5th level
Meditation  of Life Ending Sword: Strike-Attack with both swords, oponent may die if you hit with both, or bring back the recently deceased.
Floral Nirvana: Counter-Remove yourself from reality for a moment.
Ghostly Wheel of Pain:Boost-Turn your soul into a copy from yourself, forming a circle of rebirth.
God's Flashing Slash as Karma Gust:Strike-move an impossible distance in a moment while slicing all who opose you.

6th level
Tower Watching Blade's Bullet-Cutting Third Eye:Counter-block an enemy attack by striking even harder.
Five Signs of the Dying Deva:Strike–Your blows reveal your oponent's doom, stripping them of their defenses.
Delusion of Enlightenment: Stance–Become able to shoot waves of energy with all your attacks.
Slashing a Flower Upon One's Head:Strike-Cut only what must be cut, traping an  oponent or freeing an ally.

7th level
Displeasure of the Seven Sins-Boost-Purify yourself to remove all ill effects.
Slash Clearing the Six Senses: Strike–Ignore the illusions of reality to strike at your target's true core.
Approaching Disillusion :Strike- Slash the boundaries of reality itself around you, creating dangerous rifts.

8th level

Attainment of Eternal Truth:Boost-See everything as it truly is, then close the gap with your target.
Deva Realm's God Swords: Stance–Pour your soul into your blades, greatly strenghtening them.
Slash of The Eternity: Strike- Attack oponent with both blades, attacks keeps repeating themselves untill one of you is defeated.
Secret of Life and Death:Strike-Utterly destroy your oponent, or bring back those who passed away.

9th level
Six Realms Ageless Obsession:Stance–Enter the border between life and death to attain extreme power, cannot keep it for long.
Paschal Moon-Reflecting Satellite Slash:Strike-Clear all obstacles in your path before striking with the power of the moon.


The Ancient Temple school is all about showing the best from yourself, in all senses of the word.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 08:42:11 AM by oslecamo » Logged

oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 05:34:53 PM »

Maneuvers explanations:
Unless otherwise noted, every Ancient Temple maneuver is supernatural maneuver that can fully affect incorporeal and ethereal opponents.

1st level

Aceptance of Life and Death
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: see text
Target: up to one enemy and up to one ally
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 11+Wisdom modifier

Everything dies and is reborn. The realization of this fact makes some despair, while others are actually calmed by it.

Make one basic melee attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. If you hit an opponent and they fail a Will save, they're shaken for 1 round (this doesn't stack with other fear effects). If you hit an ally, you may choose to don't deal damage and you may remove all fear effects from that ally (allies can let themselves be automatically hit).

If you hit an ally without any fear effect, you may grant it (not yourself) a +1 bonus on Attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, ability checks, AC and saves for 1 round.

Moment of Eternity
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you
Duration: 1 round
Save: none

There's no past. There's no future. There's only now, and it lasts forever. You gain a +1 Enhancement bonus on Attack rolls and  damage rolls, and then one of either  Skill Checks, Ability Checks, AC or saves, all bonus for every 4 ranks you have in Profession(Gardener). Alternatively  you can gain a movement speed bonus of 5 feet for every 4 ranks in Profession (Gardener) you have for 1 round on top of the bonus to attack and damage.

200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range:melee
Target: one creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

The massive gardens of the ghost mistress demand their caretakers to move at extreme speeds to maintain them.

You move up to two times your movement speed in a straight line without provoking attacks of opportunity. At any point during your movement, you may attack once with both blades with a -2 penalty on the attack rolls  against one target.

You may also make a Profession (Gardener) check as part of this maneuver. For every 5 points of the result, you may instantly remove one 5-feet square of hard terrain from your path, carving it into an elegant path.


Any Ancient Temple user should be ashamed of herself if she doesn't leave her battlefield in a better condition than how it started.


Intolerant Avici
Ancient Temple (Counter)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Immediate action
Range: See text
Target: one opponent
Duration:Instantaneous
Save: none
Those who are intolerant damn themselves to hell.

You may initiate this counter whenever an opponent misses an attack against you. It is rendered flat-footed untill the end of your next turn.

Fasting of the Young Ghost
Ancient Temple (Stance)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration:stance
Save: none

The path of the Ancient Temple demands one to go between the way of the living and the dead.

When you enter this stance, you partially remove your own soul from your body, making it float around you like a small changing round cloud, the details of wich depend on your personality. It cannot be damaged or separated from you by any means, but cannot do much on its own either.

Once per round as a free action during your turn, your separated soul can either make use a mental(Int, Wis or Cha based) skill check that would normally take a Standard action or less to make, or can shoot a projectile of spiritual energy as a melee touch or ranged touch attack with a range of 5 feet for every rank in you have in Profession(Gardener) that deals Cold damage equal to your initiator level. Both the mental skill check and ranged touch attack use your own stats.

2nd level
Insightful Swords
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range:Cone with 5 feet per Initiator Level
Target: all creatures in cone.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 12+Wisdom modifier

You gather spiritual energy around you before slicing it to create a rain of colourful projectiles.

Make a profession (Gardener) check. All creatures whitin the area take damage equal to the result of this check. A sucessful Reflex save halves the damage.

In addition, you may apply the result of your profession (Gardener) check to the area of effect as if you had worked 8 hours on it.


The Ancient Temple school carefully balances magic, blade skill and the art of gardening.

Beast Realm Brute Sword:
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: melee
Target: up to two opponents.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

Certain tasks demand less elegant solutions

Make one basic melee attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. You may perform a sunder, trip, disarm or bullrush atempt as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity against each opponent hit.

Alternatively, you may target both attacks against a single opponent. If you hit with both, you may perform a sunder, trip, disarm or bullrush atempt as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity, and you gain a bonus on all rolls of the chosen combat maneuver equal to the number of ranks you have in Profession(Gardener).

If you use this maneuver in an inanimate object or plant, you may make a single profession (Gardener) check on it, counting as if you had worked one week on the task.

Items sundered by Beast Realm Brute Sword turn into beatiful exotic flowers that wither extremely slowly and are worth as much as the destroyed item on the open market.

Netherworld Reflection Slash
Ancient Temple (Counter)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Inmediate action
Range: -
Target:see text.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: see text

Everybody pays for their sins sooner or later. You may initiate this maneuver when an opponent targets you with a ranged attack. Roll an oposed melee attack roll. If you win, you deflect the attack, turning it against one creature whitin your line of sight and effect of your choice (including the one that shot you). Use your own melee attack roll for the deflected attack, but the attacker's stats for any other effects.


Youmu Konpaku deflects the spells from a wicked witch as she closes in.

Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: See text
Target: See text
Duration: See text
Save: 12+Wis mod

Those who idle themselves whitout worries are bound to never acomplish anything. Your next sucessful melee attack until the beginning of your next turn forces the target to make a Will save or be Slowed for 1 round.

In alternative, when you use this boost you may harmlessly slice trough one adjacent ally to cut their lazyness and grant them an Haste effect for 1 round.

3rd level

Flashing Slash Formation as Karma Gust
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range: See text
Target: See text
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

As 200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash, but you move up to your movement speed in a straight line, and may strike once with both your swords at every opponent you pass by (whitin melee reach of your movement during this maneuver).

Storybook of the Ghost Realm
Ancient Temple (Stance)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: stance
Save: none

By acepting your mortality, you become partially immune to it. While on this stance whenever you would be affected by some ill effect that an undead would be immune to, you have 50% chance of automatically resisting it. Now you're also healed by both negative and positive energy.

Your soul separates yourself even more, now working as an Unseen Servant with CL equal to your Initiator level and lasts while you're in this stance, but it cannot attack or make skill checks anymore. If it would be damaged, it instead automatically returns to your position.


Asura Realm Ascension to Nirvana
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Standard Action
Range: melee
Target: up to two creatures.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 13+Wisdom Modifier

A Netherworld Gardener knows how to draw power from beauty, capturing the atention of opponents while revitalizing allies.

You make one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. If you hit an opponent, they must suceed on a Will save or be dazed for 1 round. If you hit an ally, they take no damage and you may remove from them one of the following:
-Daze
-Stun
-Paralyzis
-Any one mind-affecting effect.

Or in alternative grant the ally a Lesser Restoration effect. You cannot use this on yourself.


Retribution of the Ten Hungry Kings
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Swift Action
Range: -
Target: you
Duration: 1 round
Save: none

The ten judges of rebirth decide the fate of all ghosts, and you execute their will. Your Youkai-forged blades are surrounded by eerie energy from the surrounding souls, and every slice from you sends them to a new destiny while punishing your opponents.

After you initiate this boost, until the end of your current turn all your melee attacks send waves of energy (or rains of glowing projectiles, your choice) that hit as hard as your youkai-forged blades. This basically allows you to strike opponents whitin 10 feet per rank you have in Profession(Gardener) as if they were inside your melee range.


A vile demon wrongly thinks she's safe in the air while raining down fire on a grounded Ancient Temple user.

4th level

Mortal Realm Rise from Delusion
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4, Warblade 4
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range: see text
Target: see text
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

The work of a Netherworld Gardener never ends, and stoping for anything but being dead is not an option. When you initiate this maneuver, one adverse spell, condition or effect with a duration other than instantaneous currently affecting you ends (except death), you pick up your weapons if you had dropped them, stand up if you were prone and then you may perform a standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades or a charge attack wich allows you to attack with both Youkai-Forged blades at the end of it.

You may initiate this maneuver even if you would be normally unable to act, as long as the removed effect was the one stoping you from acting.



Youmu Konpaku gets back on her feet after taking a specially nasty hit.

Flashing Cherry Blossoms
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4, Warblade 4
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

You're suddenly surrounded by a pattern of flower petals of your choice, wich grant you concealment for 1 round, except you add double your ranks in Profession(Gardener) to the miss chance, up to 90% miss chance. Untill the end of your turn, nobody else can take actions of any kind untill you attack and the first opponent you strike is considered flatfooted.

After this boost the flower petals can be used for decoration and gardening works.


An Ancient Temple user diverts her opponents atention before delivering her attack.

Disappearing Elegance
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4, Warblade 4
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: radius with 5 feet per 2 Initiator levels.
Target: opponents inside the radius
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

A gardener shouldn't really left herself be seen doing her work. When you initiate this maneuver, you disapear from sight as you move at an incredible speed, then you make one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades against each opponent inside the radius. You then reappear at any point inside the radius of your choice.

In addition, you may apply the result of your profession (Gardener) check to the area of effect as if you had worked 24 hours on it.

Obsession with the Present World
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 4, Swordsage 4, Warblade 4
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: 1 round
Save: 14+Wis mod

Your swords slice away the rationality of your opponents and the confusion from your allies.

For 1 round, any enemy hit by your Youkai-forged blades must suceed on a Will save or be Confused for 1 round.

In addition, when you initiate this boost you may remove all harmfull mind-affecting effects from adjacent allies (but not yourself).

5th level

Meditation  of Life Ending Sword
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 5, Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range: melee
Target: one creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 15+Wisdom Modifier

You say a small prayer for your target and then strike at the thread of their life. Make one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades against a single opponent. If you hit with both, you deal extra damage equal to a Profession (Gardener) check. If then your target has less HP than your Profession(Gardener) modifier, they die (destroyed in the case of non-living creatures) or are left completely helpless for 24 hours, your choice. A sucessful Reflex save halves the extra damage and negates the death/destruction/helpleness.

If you use this maneuver on a corpse that's been dead for no longer than 1 round for every rank you have in Profession(Gardener), and you offer at least 1000 GP worth of offerings as sacrifice, you may cut short its cycle of rebirth and make them come back to life as if a Reincarnate spell had been used.

Floral Nirvana
Ancient Temple (Counter)
Level: Crusader 5, Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
Initiation Action: Immediate Action
Range: See text
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None

When you would be striken down, instead you reach Nirvana for some moments. You may initiate this counter when you would be harmed by any effect. Your body dissolves in flower petals and you disapear from reality. You reform in your previous position right after the attack misses you.

Ghostly Wheel of Pain
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 5, Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: 1 round
Save: none

Most people have a secret inner side. A Netherworld Gardener learns how to bring it out to help in her endless tasks.

You must be in an Ancient Temple stance to use this boost. Your separated soul turns into a copy from yourself which acts on your own turn and lasts for 1 round before turning back in your soul. It cannot however use this boost. Otherwise it uses your hp, spell slots, readied manuvers, power points, daily uses, etc. It has perfect copies of your equipment, but cannot use any charged items or items with a limited number of uses per day. They all dissolve in smoke when the boost ends.

 Both you and your soul draw from a single "pool" when it comes to maneuvers, spells, and other such expendable abilities, so if it uses a maneuver you had readied, it counts as expended for you. If it uses an ability that costs exp, you lose the exp as well,  and so on.


Youmu Konpaku lends an helping hand to herself.

God's Flashing Slash as Karma Gust
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 5, Swordsage 5, Warblade 5
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range: breath attack
Target: creatures in the breath attack area.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: as the breath weapon

As "Flashing Slash Formation as Karma Gust", but you can move up to four times your movement speed in a straight line.

If there's any solid obstacle in your path, you atempt to break trough using a profession(gardener) check instead of a strenght check. If there's a magic/psionic obstacle in your path, you may atempt to dispel it with a Profession(gardener) check instead of caster level check. You may even take down undispellable effects like Wall of Force, but the DC is 5 higher.


An Ancient Temple user slashes trough a magic fog to reach her opponents.

6th level

Tower Watching Blade's Bullet-Cutting Third Eye
Ancient Temple (Counter)
Level: Crusader 6, Swordsage 6, Warblade 6
Initiation Action: Immediate action
Range: see text
Target: one creature.
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None

On skillfull hands, a sword doubles as a shield to protect what's important to you. You may initiate this counter whenever an opponent would harm you or any ally whitin sight. You move up to twice your movement speed (including trough the air even if you cannot normaly fly). If you end up in reach of the attacker, you may perform one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades against it. If either attack causes damage, the attack is stoped and the enemy's action wasted, but they may still take any remaining actions they have for the round.

Five Signs of the Dying Deva
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 6, Swordsage 6, Warblade 6
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range: melee
Target: up to five creatures
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 16+Wisdom modifier

Death comes for all, but it rarely comes quickly, many times being pressaged by signs of decay that most beings try to conceal. With a cut, you can reveal or hide them.

Perform three attacks with your main Youkai-forged blade and two with your off-hand Youkai-forged blade. Each hit causes one of the following effects on the enemy unless they suceed on a Reflex save (each effect has its own save):
-Lose Fast Healing for 1 round
-Lose Regeneration for 1 round.
-Lose all DR for 1 round.
-Lose all resistances for 1 round.
-Lose one immunity for 1 round.
-Lose Natural armor for 1 round.
-Become flat footed for 1 round.
-Highest caster/manifester level benefical spell/power on creature automatically dispelled.
-Become exhausted for 1 round .
-Receive one negative level for 1 round.

If you hit an ally, you deal no damage and instead they receive a Restoration effect from this maneuver.

Delusion of Enlightenment
Ancient Temple (Stance)
Level: Crusader 6, Swordsage 6, Warblade 6
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: stance
Save: none

You reach enlightment, and learn you really don't need to get close to your opponent to cut them. You  fragment your soul in multiple parts that can release  bursts of spiritual energy that hit as hard as your Youkai-Forged Blades. You may also slice enemies at distance with your swords as you cut trough the illusion of reality if you prefer.

Basically, your melee reach increases with the Youkai-Forged blades increases by 5 feet for every rank you have in Profession(Gardener).


Youmu Konpaku doesn't even bother drawing her swords as her soul showers the enemy with deadly attacks.

Slashing a Flower Upon One's Head
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 6, Swordsage 6, Warblade 6
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: breath attack
Target: up to two creatures
Duration: 1 round
Save: 16+Wisdom Modifier

The best sword is not the one that cuts everything, but the one that only cuts what must be cutted.

You perform one standard attack with each Youkai-Forged blade. Those attacks ignore any miss chances and mirror images from your targets.

If you hit an opponent, they must suceed on a Reflex save or lose one of their Ex or Su abilities for 1 round of your choice (you automatically learn their Ex and Su abilities when you hit them with this maneuver). If you hit a spellcaster/manifester, you may stop them from using spells/powers for 1 round.

If you hit an ally, they take no damage and all harmfull effects/spells/powers/condition/whatever bad stuff with a duration other than instantaneous(except death) that the ally had automatically ends.

7th level

Displeasure of the Seven Sins
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 7, Swordsage 7, Warblade 7
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: You
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

To attain purity one must overcome the weaknesses of the soul. When you initiate this boost all harmfull effects/spells/powers/condition/whatever bad stuff with a duration other than instantaneous(except death) automatically end.

You may initiate this boost even if you would be normally unable to act, unless you're dead.

Slash Clearing the Six Senses
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 7, Swordsage 7, Warblade 7
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: melee
Target: one opponent
Duration: instantaneous
Save: See Text

To see nothing, hear nothing, smell nothing, taste nothing, feel nothing, think nothing of impurities — to cut away from the impure world.

When you initiate this maneuver, you close all your senses and become automatically aware of every opponent whitin your melee reach even if they're somehow hidden. Choose one of them and make a standard melee attack with each of your youkai-forged blades at it. Those attacks ignore all defences and directly damage your opponent's HP, each dealing extra damage equal to your Profession (Gardener) bonus. Each can only be stoped by your opponent rolling a sucessful save(Fort, Reflex or Will, wichever's lower) with a DC equal to your attack roll.

In alternative, you may replicate a Teleport effect as you cut away trough the impure world.

Approaching Disillusion
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 7, Swordsage 7, Warblade 7
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: see text
Target: see text
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 17+Wisdom Modifier

You tear a gap in reality that reveals other strange and captivating realities, threatening to engulf your opponents as a deadly disillusion.

When you use this maneuver you affect one line with 5 feet width and a lenght of 5 feet per initiator level. Any opponent inside it takes damage equal to twice the result of a Profession(Gardener) check, reflex save for half.

The gap persists indefenetely, dealing the same damage to every creature entering or starting its turn on it, and at the beggining of your turn you may move each of them 5 feet as a free action. They also provide concealment. You can only maintain a number of Aproaching Disillusions equal to your Wisdom modifier. If you try to go over the limit, the oldest one in existence vanishes. Multiple Aproaching Disiullusions on the same area don't stack damage, and you may dismiss any number of them as an immediate action.

In alternative, you may use this Maneuver to replicate a Plane Shift effect, except an opponent must suceed on a Reflex save instead of a Will save to suceed.


Youmu Konpaku slashes a gap trough reality itself.

8th level
Attainment of Eternal Truth
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 8, Swordsage 8, Warblade 8
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range:-
Target: you
Duration: 1 round
Save: none

You see what must be done, and realize how simple it is to acomplish it. When you initiate this boost you gain a True Seeing effect for 1 round, then teleport yourself to any position whitin 30 feet per rank you have in Profession (Gardener). You may then take any remaining actions you have for your turn.

Deva Realm's God Swords
Ancient Temple (Stance)
Level: Crusader 8, Swordsage 8, Warblade 8
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: stance
Save: none

You divide and bind your soul into your Youkai-Forged blades. While on this stance, each of them gains an enanchment bonus equal to 2/3 your Ranks in Profession (Gardener). Each cannot have an actual enanchment bonus to attack and damage rolls bigger than +5, but you can spend the enanchment bonus to get special abilities like Keen and Holy. You cannot however spend it in Bane or any similar enchantments that are specialized against a specific kind of creature, neither on abilities with limited uses per day (reference chart here).

Your weapons also leave behind a trail of flower petals when swinged.

Slash of The Eternity
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 8, Swordsage 8, Warblade 8
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: melee
Target: up to two creatures
Duration: see text
Save: none

Your attack cuts trough time and keeps repeating itself in an endless cycle, slashing enemies and covering for allies.

Make one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. If you targeted an opponent, the attack repeats itself at the begginning of each of your turns untill either one of you dies, or you dismiss the effect as an immediate action. Roll new attacks every round, and they always use your current stats.

If you targeted an ally (other than yourself), you deal no damage, but the ally gains a bonus to AC and reflex saves equal to 1/4 your ranks in Profession (Gardener), dismissable as an immediate action.

You can only maintain a total (benefical and harmfull) number of Slashes of the Eternity equal to your Wisdom modifier. If you try to go over the limit, the oldest one in existence stops.

If you have this maneuver readied and an opponent whitin your view uses Time Stop, Celerity, or any other spell/power that grants extra actions/turns, you may expend it as a free action (even if it isn't your turn) to stop it by slicing the flow of time.


Once you clashed with her, there's no running away from an Ancient Temple warrior-gardener.

Secret of Life and Death
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 8, Swordsage 8, Warblade 8
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: melee
Target: up to two creatures
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 18+Wisdom Modifier

Death and Life are nothing more than two stages of the cycle of Rebirth, and you stand ready to make them happen.

Make one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. An opponent hit takes extra damage equal to a Profession(gardener) check. If they're left with less HP than your Profession (Gardener) bonus, they die(destroyed in the case of nonliving creatures) or left helpless for 24 hours, your choice. A sucessfull Reflex save halves the extra damage and negates the die/death/unhelpness.

An ally takes no damage and receives a Greater Restoration effect.

If you hit the remains of a corpse, you may bring them back to life depending on how long they've been dead.
-If they've been dead for 1 round per rank you have in Profession(gardener) or less no expensive offerings are needed and they don't lose a level.
-If they've been dead for 1 day per rank you have in Profession(gardener) or less you need to make an offering worth 10.000 GP.

Otherwise this works as a Ressurection spell

9th level

Six Realms Ageless Obsession
Ancient Temple (Stance)
Level: Crusader 9, Swordsage 9, Warblade 9
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: stance
Save: none

Ancient Temple maneuvers base themselves on the six Realms of Rebirth, Hell, Ghost, Beast, Mortal, Asura and Deva. When they fail, one can still enter the dangerous stance that encopasses all the Realms at the same time.

While in this Stance, you simultaneously benefit from all other Ancient Temple stances you know, and you can use any Ancient Temple maneuvers you know regardless of them being readied or expended. Once per round, you can use an Ancient Temple boost or Counter as a free action without expending your swift/immediate action.

You can only maintain this stance up to 3 rounds, at the end of the third you automatically exit it.

When you exit this stance, you're swallowed by the endless cycle of Rebirth and disappear in a flash of light and petals. Three rounds later you manage to slash your way trough time and space back to a place where you've already visited during your life of your choice, but all your Ancient Temple maneuvers are considered expended and you're dazed for 1 rounds.


Ancient Temple users push themselves  trough life, trough death, and beyond.

Paschal Moon Reflecting Satellite Slash
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 9, Swordsage 9, Warblade 9
Initiation Action: FullRound action
Range: Infinite
Target: one creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 19+Wisdom Modifier

The Moon is a mysterious nexus between the dead and the living, and with this Strike you directly borrow its power.

Choose one creature whitin your sight. You're both transported to a featurless plain with a full moon over a starry night sky over you. You automatically close in with your opponent and deliver one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades, each dealing extra damage equal to thrice a Profession (Gardener) check. If you hit with both attacks, your opponent must make a Reflex save or die (be destroyed in the case of a nonliving creature) or be sealed under a cherry tree for as long as you exist, you choose to release them, or the tree is destroyed. In the case of the seal, the cherry tree instantly grows in the place your oponent was when you used this maneuver. You may later transnplant it to another location, and it cannot be located by divinations of any kind. Even the people of the area will swear the cherry tree has been there all along when you put it in a new place!

This maneuver specifically overrides any ability, spell, effect, power, maneuver, cheese or anything else that would prevent the enemy from geting killed/destroyed/sealed or allow them to come back. Liches don't respawn, contigencies don't trigger, true ressurection can't get them back, etc. You then return to your previous position.

If your opponent suceeds on the save, they return to their previous position as well.


Youmu Konpaku smiles as she prepares to add a new tree to her mistress's garden.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2011, 07:36:22 PM by oslecamo » Logged

Amechra
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2328


Thread Necromancy a Specialty


« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 11:11:23 PM »

I am now going to make a ranger with this. This is awesome. (Have to say, though, that Six Realms Ageless Obsession can result in travel anywhere you want, as long as you are willing to wait 36 seconds.)
Logged

Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing
veekie
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 9034


WARNING: Homing Miko


« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 05:22:07 AM »

Well damn I shoulda posted mine last night when the last examples were done.
Logged

The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."
oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 12:49:03 PM »

I am now going to make a ranger with this. This is awesome. (Have to say, though, that Six Realms Ageless Obsession can result in travel anywhere you want, as long as you are willing to wait 36 seconds.)

Thanks! Also the travel anywhere was kinda my intention, but I put a dazed for 1d4 rounds clause(plus all Ancient Temple maneuvers expended so you can't break out of it right away) so you cannot just pop up anywhere you want and restart the stance right away.
Logged

Amechra
Man in Gorilla Suit
*****
Posts: 2328


Thread Necromancy a Specialty


« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 05:11:08 PM »

The link to Doll Judgement is borken. It leads to your Fighter Fix.
Logged

Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

On a strange note, would anyone be put out if we had a post about people or events we can spare a thought for, or if its within their creed, a prayer for? Just a random thought, but ... hells I wouldn't have known about either Archangels daughter or Saeomons niece if I didn't happen to be on these threads.
Sounds fine to me.
probably over on "Off-topic".
might want to put a little disclaimer in the first post.

This is the Min/Max board. We should be able to figure out a way to optimize the POWER OF PRAYER(TM) that doesn't involve "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu".

My final project for my film independent study course. It could do with a watching and critiquing
oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 05:25:39 PM »

Thanks for pointing it out, fixed it.
Logged

Catty Nebulart
Curious George
****
Posts: 332



Email
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2011, 05:19:46 AM »

Quote
If you hit an wlly whitout any fear effect, you may grant it (not yourself) a +1 bonus on Attack, damage rolls, skill checks, ability checks, AC and saves for 1 round.

Ouch, spelling Smile

EDIT:
Quote
Basically, your melee reach increases with the Youkai-Forged blades increases by 5 feet for every rank you have in Profession(Gardener).

5 ft per Rank!?!?! As a strike or boost this would be hideously powerful as a stance it's borked.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 05:34:15 AM by Catty Nebulart » Logged

E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2011, 08:56:23 AM »

5 ft per Rank!?!?! As a strike or boost this would be hideously powerful as a stance it's borked.

Is it really now? We're talking about 11th level. Casters already got much nastier stuff, and melee monsters are also quite scary by now.

5 feet per Rank is powerfull yes, but what's the worst that could happen? Do you deal more damage? Can you get other creatures as your slaves? Do you get 11 strenght-damaging touch attacks per round? Can you stop that dragon from doing fly-by breath attacks on you? Well, you get to hurt it while it passes by you at least. With a single-handed weapon. Once, because that's how many attacks of oportunity you get from an oponent moving in a single round.

This is, my doll judgement school allows you to place dolls anywhere whitin a 10 feet radius per Initiator level. that then can also attack and deliver attaks of oportunity.

Can't melees have some nice things?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 08:58:55 AM by oslecamo » Logged

Catty Nebulart
Curious George
****
Posts: 332



Email
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2011, 11:01:40 AM »

5 ft per Rank!?!?! As a strike or boost this would be hideously powerful as a stance it's borked.

Is it really now? We're talking about 11th level. Casters already got much nastier stuff, and melee monsters are also quite scary by now.

Fair enough, but IIRC there is a 5'th level Iron Heart stance that gives you +5ft reach. I would need to go back to the books and check. So if we compare this to a published martial discipline it seems a bit over the top. Especially since IH is considered one of the stronger disciplines.

EDIT: See "Dancing Blade Form" a 5'th level Iron Heart stance, that grants +5 ft reach under limited circumstances and has wording that explicitly says it doesn't stack with other manuvers. "Delusion of Enlightenment" is a 6'th level stance that gives roughly +5ft per initiator level, constantly and without conditions, or about +75 ft at the time you get this stance, and it keeps scaling. You might be correct that the later is more level appropriate, but at the same time when I see a home-brew martial discipline I expect it to be about on par with the published disciplines. In general a +5ft increase to reach is considered quite powerful and is hard to get, warshaper forinstance grants this which is one of the things that make it a worthwhile class (some of the other abilities are better, but the +5ft reach is quite significant.). This one stance gives something which is otherwise near impossible to get. This is also way better than most of the class features a bloodstorm blade gets, since he gets a total of 60 ft or so range, and that with hefty penalties (10ft range increment) and they don't get to use that reach to make attacks of opertunity. If you made it something like 5ft per 10 ranks I would still squawk about it's power, but it would not be a way out there ability that has no peer.

I guess I should read the rest of the discipline to see if anything else jumps out at me as wacky power-wise.

Can't melees have some nice things?

Not according to wizards.  
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 06:28:23 PM by Catty Nebulart » Logged

E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Catty Nebulart
Curious George
****
Posts: 332



Email
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2011, 07:34:38 PM »

Detailed feedback; Level 1 Maneuvers.

Fair warning, I am brutally honest, and I have ignored the many spelling and grammar mistakes. If I have time I'll go through level 2's next. Overall maneuvers of this school seem to be significantly stronger than comparable maneuvers on the same level, and usually stronger than comparable maneuvers 3 levels higher.

The most common typos;
oponent should be opponent
whitout should be without
oportunity should be opportunity

Aceptance of Life and Death
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: see text
Target: up to one enemy and up to one ally
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 11+Wisdom modifier

Everything dies and is reborn. The realization of this fact makes some despair, while others are actually calmed by it.

Make one basic melee attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. If you hit an oponent and they fail a Will save, they're shaken for 1 round (even if they're immune to it, but such oponents gain a +5 bonus on their saves). If you hit an ally, you may choose to don't deal damage and you may remove all fear effects from that ally (allies can let themselves be automatically hit).

If you hit an ally whitout any fear effect, you may grant it (not yourself) a +1 bonus on Attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, ability checks, AC and saves for 1 round.

Let's see a 1'st level maneuver that overcomes immunities, and is very versatile... and an untyped bonus. Make it a morale bonus and split it into two maneuvers (One for enemies one for allies), and it's still very strong.
Since it can overcome immunities it doesn't need to be versatile, and please compare how this maneuver stacks up against Inspire Courage. You grant an untyped bonus to more things and with less conditions, granted it's targeted and it only lasts for one round, but it can be used each combat wheres the bard use is once per level. Overall it's probably not worth spending your action to buff one party member for one round, but the removing fear and the causing fear are both useful abilities.

Moment of Eternity
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you
Duration: 1 round
Save: none

There's no past. There's no future. There's only now, and it lasts forever. You gain a +1 bonus on Attack rolls, damage rolls, skill checks, ability checks, AC and saves, all bonus for every 4 ranks you have in Profession(Gardener). All your movement speeds also increase by 5 feet for every 4 ranks in Profession (Gardener) you have for 1 round.

As a 3'rd of 4'th level maneuver that grants a +1 Enhancement bonus this is somewhat reasonable. As a 1'st level maneuver this is not. Especially since it scales with ranks and not initiator level.
Compare it with Wind Stride (Desert Wind 1), Steely Strike (Iron Heart 1), and Rabid Wolf Strike (Tiger Claw 2). Your maneuver does more, scales better and doesn't have a drawback.

200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range:melee
Target: one creature
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

The massive gardens of the ghost mistress demand their caretakers to move at extreme speeds to maintain them.

You move up to two times your base speed in a straight line whitout provoking attacks of oportunity. At any point during your movement, you may attack once with both blades at full attack bonus against one target.

You may also make a Profession (Gardener) check as part of this maneuver. For every 5 points of the result, you may instantly remove one 5-feet square of hard terrain from your path, carving it into an elegant path.

Well now what's this? A more or less balanced maneuver, it's similar but stronger than Wolf Fang Strike (Tiger Claw 1) but not crazily so. It would be more appropriate as a 2'nd level maneuver though. If you keep it at first give a -2 penalty to the attack rolls like WFS.

Intolerant Avici
Ancient Temple (Counter)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Immediate action
Range: See text
Target: one oponent
Duration:Instantaneous
Save: none

Intolerance towards the cycle of life and death is unaceptable and must be punished on the spot.

You may initiate this counter whenever an oponent misses an attack against you. It is rendered flat-footed untill the end of your next turn and they also provoke an attack of oportunity from you.

Gak, and the last maneuver had my hopes up. I would say that this ability is stronger than Pearl of Black Doubt (Diamond Mind 3, Stance), It's definitely stronger than Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diamond Mind 1) which makes opponents flatfooted till the beginning of your turn, and stronger than Leading the Attack and Vanguard Strike. This might be appropriate as a 5'th level maneuver, but not until then. And I strongly dislike the fluff for this maneuver.

Fasting of the Young Ghost
Ancient Temple (Stance)
Level: Crusader 1, Swordsage 1, Warblade 1
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration:stance
Save: none

The path of the Ancient Temple demands one to go between the way of the living and the dead.

When you enter this stance, you partially remove your own soul from your body, making it float around you like a small changing round cloud, the details of wich depend on your personality. It cannot be damaged or separated from you by any means, but cannot do much on its own either.

Once per round as a free action during your turn, your separated soul can either make use a mental(Int, Wis or Cha based) skill check or can shoot a projectile of spiritual energy as a melee touch or ranged touch attack with a range of 5 feet for every rank in you have in Profession(Gardener) that deals damage equal to your initiator level. Both the mental skill check and ranged touch attack use your own stats.

Neat and flavorful, but a little high powered since it essentially gives a free shot each turn. Also you should have some verbiage about the time for skill checks not being reduced, and I would restrict it to standard actions for the mental skill checks, so that you can't do things like take diplomacy actions without penalty for being rushed.
You also need more verbiage about the damage it does, if it does just regular damage (is reduced by DR as normal) or if it does some kind of energy damage. Cold would thematically fit and be of around the right powerlevel.
Logged

E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Catty Nebulart
Curious George
****
Posts: 332



Email
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2011, 11:41:53 PM »

Level 2 Maneuvers review; Overall these are much better balanced than the level 1 maneuvers.

Insightful Swords
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range:Cone with 5 feet per Initiator Level
Target: all creatures in cone.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 12+Wisdom modifier

You gather spiritual energy around you before slicing it to create a rain of colourful projectiles.

Make a profession (Gardener) check. All creatures whitin the area take damage equal to the result of this check. A sucessful Reflex save halves the damage.

In addition, you may apply the result of your profession (Gardener) check to the area of effect as if you had worked 8 hours on it.

Neat and appropriate second level manuver. It's like a much improved Hatchlings flame, but not insanly so. And it scales reasonbaly unlike hatchlings flame.

Beast Realm Brute Sword:
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Standard action
Range: melee
Target: up to two oponents.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

Certain tasks demand less elegant solutions

Make one basic melee attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. You may perform a sunder, trip, disarm or bullrush atempt as a free action whitout provoking attacks of oportunity against each oponent hit.

Alternativly, you may target both attacks against a single oponent. If you hit with both, you may perform a sunder, trip, disarm or bullrush atempt as a free action whitout provoking attacks of oportunity, and you gain a bonus on all rolls of the chosen combat maneuver equal to the number of ranks you have in Profession(Gardener).

If you use this maneuver in an inanimate object or plant, you may make a single profession (Gardener) check on it, counting as if you had worked one week on the task.

Items sundered by Beast Realm Brute Sword turn into beatiful exotic flowers that wither extremely slowly and are worth as much as the destroyed item on the open market.

Too flexible, all the other manuvers that grant a special option grant just one. Try;

Quote
Make one sunder attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades, these attacks do not provoke attacks of opertunity and gain bonus damage equal to the number of ranks you have in Profession(Gardener).

If you use this maneuver in an inanimate object or plant, you may make a single profession (Gardener) check on it, counting as if you had worked one week on the task.

Items sundered by Beast Realm Brute Sword turn into beatiful exotic flowers that wither extremely slowly and are worth as much as the destroyed item on the open market.

Netherworld Reflection Slash
Ancient Temple (Counter)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Inmediate action
Range: -
Target:see text.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: see text

Everybody pays for their sins sooner or later. You may initiate this maneuver when an oponent targets you with a ranged attack. Roll an oposed attack roll. If you win, you deflect the attack, turning it against one creature whitin your line of sight and effect of your choice (including the one that shot you).Use your own attack roll for the deflected attack, but the attacker's stats for any other effects.

I like the effect but it's much better than Wall of Blades, a comparable second level manuver, it replicates an epic feat, and it's unclearly worded. you should specify whether the attack roll is ranged or melee, add the drawbacks that it can't be used while denied dex to ac, that it must be used before you know the result of the enemie's attack roll, and that if you fail you are automatically hit.
Even with all of that it probably is too strong for a second level manuver.

Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: See text
Target: See text
Duration: See text
Save: 12+Wis mod

Not paying atention to your task at hand is very bad. Your next sucessful melee attack until the beginning of your next turn forces the target to make a Will save or be Dazed for 1 round.

In addition, when you use this boost you may harmlessly slice trough one adjacent ally to remove either Daze, Paralyzis, Stun or any one mind-affecting effect currently affecting them.

Strike, Standard action, single sword attack, choose to attack an ally or enemy. With those changes this would be an excellent maneuver.

Level 3 review; A further improvement in balance. If the entire school where like this I would have no objections.

Flashing Slash Formation as Karma Gust
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Fullround action
Range: See text
Target: See text
Duration: instantaneous
Save: none

As 200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash, but you move up to four times your base speed in a straight line, and may strike once with both your swords at every oponent you pass by.

err... tone the speed down to just 'your base speed' instead of four times it and it works. The multiplier should wait till a later maneuver. As it is there are many things which will boost your speed.

Storybook of the Ghost Realm
Ancient Temple (Stance)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Swift action
Range: -
Target: you.
Duration: stance
Save: none

By acepting your mortality, you become partially immune to it. While on this stance whenever you would be affected by some ill effect that an undead would be immune to, you have 50% chance of automatically resisting it. Now you're also healed by both negative and positive energy.

Your soul separates yourself even more, now working as an Unseen Servant with CL equal to your Initiator level and lasts while you're in this stance, but it cannot attack or make skill checks anymore. If it would be damaged, it instead automatically returns to your position.

Unique and not overpowering, maybe knock them out of the stance if the servant dies but otherwise this does seem fine.


Asura Realm Ascension to Nirvana
Ancient Temple (Strike)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Standard Action
Range: melee
Target: up to two creatures.
Duration: instantaneous
Save: 13+Wisdom Modifier

A Netherworld Gardener knows how to draw power from beauty, capturing the atention of oponents while revitalizing allies.

You make one standard attack with each of your Youkai-Forged blades. If you hit an oponent, they must suceed on a Will save or be dazed for 1 round. If you hit an ally, they take no damage and receive a Lesser Restoration effect.

Too similar to "Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused". Keep one of the two, not both.

Retribution of the Ten Hungry Kings
Ancient Temple (Boost)
Level: Crusader 3, Swordsage 3, Warblade 3
Initiation Action: Swift Action
Range: -
Target: you
Duration: 1 round
Save: none

The ten judges of rebirth decide the fate of all ghosts, and you execute their will. Your Youkai-forged blades are surrounded by eerie energy from the surrounding souls, and every slice from you sends them to a new destiny while punishing your oponents.

After you initiate this boost, until the end of your current turn all your melee attacks send waves of energy (or rains of glowing projectiles, your choice) that hit as hard as your youkai-forged blades. This basically allows you to strike oponents whitin 10 feet per rank you have in Profession(Gardener) as if they were inside your melee range.

Powerfull but level appropriate.

I'll leave it at that until you get a chance to look it over and give a rebuttal to my opinion on the balance of certain things.
Logged

E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Garryl
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1240


« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2011, 02:00:49 AM »

I notice that several of these maneuvers are the same as (or strictly better than) other maneuvers that already exist in other disciplines, often at higher levels. Most of existing these are maneuvers that are probably weak for their level (and so not a very valid point of comparison for balance), but I just want to point it out.

Acceptance of Life and Death (1) - Similar to (although not strictly better than) Daunting Strike (DS 5), although Daunting Strike lasts longer (1 minute) and has a generally higher save DC (equal to the damage you deal).

Insightful Swords (2) - Compare to Hatchling's Flame (DW 2; 2d6 damage, 30' cone) and Insightful Strike (DM 3; result of a Concentration check, melee attack but no save).
Beast Realm Brute Sword (2) - Compare to a combination of Wolf Fang Strike (TC 1; attack with two weapons at -2 on attack rolls) or Steel Wind (IH 1; 1 attack against each of 2 adjacent opponents) and Disarming Strike (IH 2; disarm only, one attack, no bonuses) or Exorcism of Steel (IH 3; no damage to enemy, sunder only, although it also applies a -4 penalty to opponent's damage rolls for 1 minute).
Netherworld Reflection Slash (2) - Like a ranged version of Manticore Parry (IH 6; works on melee attacks instead of ranged, redirection must be to a creature adjacent to you, manufactured weapon attacks only) or Scorpion Parry (SS 6; any attack, must redirect to a creature your opponent threatens).
Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused (2) - Compare to Dazing Strike (IH 5; strike, single attack, Fort save) or Disrupting Blow (DM 5; strike, single attack, not actually dazing but functionally identical in most cases). This is a boost, so its effects are more powerful than a strike since you can combine it with a full attack (or just the strike of your choice) for multiple attacks.

Flashing Sun Formation as Karma Gust (3) - Compare to Desert Tempest (DW 6; one attack per opponent, may only move up to your speed, but you don't have to move in a straight line).
Asura Realm Ascension to Nirvana (3) - Strictly better than Dazing Strike (IH 5; strike, single attack, Fort save) and Disrupting Blow (DM 5; strike, single attack, not actually dazing but functionally identical in most cases).
Retribution of the Ten Hungry Kings (3) - Waaaaaay better than Burning Brand (DW 2; +5 feet reach, all damage is fire damage), which is only one level lower.

Mortal Realm Rise From Delusion (4) - A significant upgrade over Iron Heart Surge (IH 3; no attacks, no standing up and picking up weapons, no removing effects if you can't act, can remove effects with durations less than 1 round) for one level.
Disappearing Elegance (4) - Compare to Mithral Tornado (IH 4; adjacent opponents only, no movement, one attack, although +2 on attack rolls), Adamantine Hurricane (IH 8; adjacent opponents only, no movement, two attacks, although +4 on attack rolls), and Desert Tempest (DW 6; one attack per opponent, may only move up to your speed, only gain attacks against opponents you move adjacent to and then away from, must actually move instead of teleporting).
Logged

A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2011, 07:14:47 AM »

Ok, before replying to all of those, take in mind that Ancient Temple maneuvers cost you a feat and can only be used with the youkai-forged blades, aka one-handed melee slashing weapons. This means no spiked chains or big two-handed weapons with big damage output. One-handed melee slashing weapons can't trip or double damage on a charge or any other fancy base weapon effects found in other weapons. And feats are a precious scarce resource.

Catty Nebulart

Let's see a 1'st level maneuver that overcomes immunities, and is very versatile... and an untyped bonus. Make it a morale bonus and split it into two maneuvers (One for enemies one for allies), and it's still very strong.
A maneuver that just either removes fear or gives a +1 bonus for 1 round sacrificing your attacks is something nobody would ever take if you ask me. The first effect is highly situational (not all enemies have fear effects), the second not really worth sacrificing your own attacks.

Since it can overcome immunities it doesn't need to be versatile, and please compare how this maneuver stacks up against Inspire Courage. You grant an untyped bonus to more things and with less conditions, granted it's targeted and it only lasts for one round, but it can be used each combat wheres the bard use is once per level. Overall it's probably not worth spending your action to buff one party member for one round, but the removing fear and the causing fear are both useful abilities.
I believe you understimate the bard's inspire courage quite a bit:
-Buffs all allies in a massive area (they only need to be able to hear it, so it even goes around corners), whereas the maneuver is melee for a couple of targets at best.
-After he starts singing, the bard can keep singing and fighting.
-More important of all, the bardic music has no limit for how much time you can sing, so even if you have a single use at 1st level you can literally sing all day long.

Anyway the save DC for the maneuver hardly scales since Wis is probably a secondary stat, and at high levels even if the enemy does fails shaken isn't that hot of a debuff at higher levels.

As a 3'rd of 4'th level maneuver that grants a +1 Enhancement bonus this is somewhat reasonable. As a 1'st level maneuver this is not. Especially since it scales with ranks and not initiator level.
Compare it with Wind Stride (Desert Wind 1), Steely Strike (Iron Heart 1), and Rabid Wolf Strike (Tiger Claw 2). Your maneuver does more, scales better and doesn't have a drawback.
Well if you ask me all of those maneuvers kinda suck and I never really saw anyone picking them besides the very 1st levels, after which they're quickly swaped for pretty much anything. Compare with Leading the charge (+1 damage per Initiator level on charges, affects all allies, stance so it doesn't eat your swift actions), Sudden Leap(basically a movement speed bonus equal to your jump check, and you can full attack with it) and Shadow Blade Technique (roll twice and either use best or deal extra damage).

But I'm willing to change it to Enhancement bonus.

Well now what's this? A more or less balanced maneuver, it's similar but stronger than Wolf Fang Strike (Tiger Claw 1) but not crazily so. It would be more appropriate as a 2'nd level maneuver though. If you keep it at first give a -2 penalty to the attack rolls like WFS.
Added penalty then.

Gak, and the last maneuver had my hopes up. I would say that this ability is stronger than Pearl of Black Doubt (Diamond Mind 3, Stance), It's definitely stronger than Sapphire Nightmare Blade (Diamond Mind 1) which makes opponents flatfooted till the beginning of your turn, and stronger than Leading the Attack and Vanguard Strike. This might be appropriate as a 5'th level maneuver, but not until then. And I strongly dislike the fluff for this maneuver.
Removed the attack of oportunity, but you do understimate Sapphire Nightmare Blade, which allows you to pick the target you want to make flat-footed, and they count as flat-footed against that attack which is a massive diference allowing you to get out sneak attack or help your rogue buddy hit the target you want instead of the random dude that missed against you.

Also changed the flavor since we're at it.

Neat and flavorful, but a little high powered since it essentially gives a free shot each turn. Also you should have some verbiage about the time for skill checks not being reduced, and I would restrict it to standard actions for the mental skill checks, so that you can't do things like take diplomacy actions without penalty for being rushed.
You also need more verbiage about the damage it does, if it does just regular damage (is reduced by DR as normal) or if it does some kind of energy damage. Cold would thematically fit and be of around the right powerlevel.
Ok, implemented those sugestions.



Too flexible, all the other manuvers that grant a special option grant just one. Try;
It does grants multiple options, but none of them is specially hot. What was the last time you saw anyone using a disarm or bullrush or sunder?

I like the effect but it's much better than Wall of Blades, a comparable second level manuver, it replicates an epic feat, and it's unclearly worded. you should specify whether the attack roll is ranged or melee, add the drawbacks that it can't be used while denied dex to ac, that it must be used before you know the result of the enemie's attack roll, and that if you fail you are automatically hit.
Even with all of that it probably is too strong for a second level manuver.
Wall of Blades works against all attacks, this one only works against ranged attacks. Also clarified it's a melee attack roll. And Monavic Devas are relatively low CR monsters that can do it , only best (they can also deflect single-target auto-hit spells whitout attack rolls). Deflection was seriously overrated in the Epic handbook. There's even an alternate rogue class feature that allows her to deflect spells in one of the 3.5 books.

Strike, Standard action, single sword attack, choose to attack an ally or enemy. With those changes this would be an excellent maneuver.
Rather change it to Slow enemy or Haste ally keeping it as a boost and move the Dazing for the 3rd level one.

err... tone the speed down to just 'your base speed' instead of four times it and it works. The multiplier should wait till a later maneuver. As it is there are many things which will boost your speed.
You're also moving on a straight line, so even with the boosted speed you can't hit that many enemies unless they conveniently stacked themselves in a line as well. This maneuver is suposed to be about moving extra fast after all.

Unique and not overpowering, maybe knock them out of the stance if the servant dies but otherwise this does seem fine.
The servant is awfully fragile so no.

Too similar to "Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused". Keep one of the two, not both.
Kept this one, and added the remove daze/stun/paralyzis/mind affecting.

I notice that several of these maneuvers are the same as (or strictly better than) other maneuvers that already exist in other disciplines, often at higher levels. Most of existing these are maneuvers that are probably weak for their level (and so not a very valid point of comparison for balance), but I just want to point it out.
Indeed, unlike what some would preach, several ToB maneuvers aren't that hot.

Acceptance of Life and Death (1) - Similar to (although not strictly better than) Daunting Strike (DS 5), although Daunting Strike lasts longer (1 minute) and has a generally higher save DC (equal to the damage you deal).

Insightful Swords (2) - Compare to Hatchling's Flame (DW 2; 2d6 damage, 30' cone) and Insightful Strike (DM 3; result of a Concentration check, melee attack but no save).
Beast Realm Brute Sword (2) - Compare to a combination of Wolf Fang Strike (TC 1; attack with two weapons at -2 on attack rolls) or Steel Wind (IH 1; 1 attack against each of 2 adjacent opponents) and Disarming Strike (IH 2; disarm only, one attack, no bonuses) or Exorcism of Steel (IH 3; no damage to enemy, sunder only, although it also applies a -4 penalty to opponent's damage rolls for 1 minute).
Netherworld Reflection Slash (2) - Like a ranged version of Manticore Parry (IH 6; works on melee attacks instead of ranged, redirection must be to a creature adjacent to you, manufactured weapon attacks only) or Scorpion Parry (SS 6; any attack, must redirect to a creature your opponent threatens).
See above for discussion on those.

Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused (2) - Compare to Dazing Strike (IH 5; strike, single attack, Fort save) or Disrupting Blow (DM 5; strike, single attack, not actually dazing but functionally identical in most cases). This is a boost, so its effects are more powerful than a strike since you can combine it with a full attack (or just the strike of your choice) for multiple attacks.
Altough it has been drastically changed now, do notice that it only applies to your next sucessful attack on the round, not all your attacks for the round.

Flashing Sun Formation as Karma Gust (3) - Compare to Desert Tempest (DW 6; one attack per opponent, may only move up to your speed, but you don't have to move in a straight line).
And like mentioned on the begginning of this post Desert Tempest allows you to go wild with a big spiked chain triping and dealing great damage with each blow.

Asura Realm Ascension to Nirvana (3) - Strictly better than Dazing Strike (IH 5; strike, single attack, Fort save) and Disrupting Blow (DM 5; strike, single attack, not actually dazing but functionally identical in most cases).
Retribution of the Ten Hungry Kings (3) - Waaaaaay better than Burning Brand (DW 2; +5 feet reach, all damage is fire damage), which is only one level lower.
Those would fall on the "original were kinda weak anyway" section.

Mortal Realm Rise From Delusion (4) - A significant upgrade over Iron Heart Surge (IH 3; no attacks, no standing up and picking up weapons, no removing effects if you can't act, can remove effects with durations less than 1 round) for one level.
Well, it also doesn't grant a bonus on attack rolls and takes a fullround action.

Disappearing Elegance (4) - Compare to Mithral Tornado (IH 4; adjacent opponents only, no movement, one attack, although +2 on attack rolls), Adamantine Hurricane (IH 8; adjacent opponents only, no movement, two attacks, although +4 on attack rolls), and Desert Tempest (DW 6; one attack per opponent, may only move up to your speed, only gain attacks against opponents you move adjacent to and then away from, must actually move instead of teleporting).
Again you cannot combine it with big two handed weapons with special fancy effects.

Thanks for the critiques!
Logged

Catty Nebulart
Curious George
****
Posts: 332



Email
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2011, 12:21:14 PM »

Ok, before replying to all of those, take in mind that Ancient Temple maneuvers cost you a feat and can only be used with the youkai-forged blades, aka one-handed melee slashing weapons. This means no spiked chains or big two-handed weapons with big damage output. One-handed melee slashing weapons can't trip or double damage on a charge or any other fancy base weapon effects found in other weapons. And feats are a precious scarce resource.

Sure there are one handed slashing weapons that allow those.
Kama for trip attacks, Slashing Sword for reach, Cutting Wheel for disarm attempts. Whip for trip and disarm attempts if you want to make one of your weapons nearly useless, but there have been so many whip alternates and fixes printed I'm sure someone can find something useful. I'm sure there are more but the point is they do exist.
You could even use a bastard sword as one of the blades since it's one handed when you are proficient with it.
Oh and for high damage what about Urskan Steelclaws? They are onehanded light slashing weapons are they not?  Smirk It's a pitty you can't use hammers with this style though, hammering the garden into shape sounds fun. (Why can't I find hammer axes where one end is a hammer and the other an axe? they exist in real life so why not dnd  Big Eyes)

Feats are precious yes, but you get basically two slightly magic weapons for free. Granted they can't be improved but as a low level feat this isn't bad. It does justify the maneuvers being a bit high powered tough.

Let's see a 1'st level maneuver that overcomes immunities, and is very versatile... and an untyped bonus. Make it a morale bonus and split it into two maneuvers (One for enemies one for allies), and it's still very strong.
A maneuver that just either removes fear or gives a +1 bonus for 1 round sacrificing your attacks is something nobody would ever take if you ask me. The first effect is highly situational (not all enemies have fear effects), the second not really worth sacrificing your own attacks.

You have here a maneuver that has a lot of out of combat utility though. the +1 to AC skill check and saves is nice when the rogue is disarming the trap, the removal of fear effects is a worthwhile combat action, and a +1 boost to almost everything is nice if you can slap it on your buddy while you retreat to get healed.

In addition there is this maneuver that can cause fear even to creatures normally immune to fear.

Both read like viable maneuvers especially at 1'st level. Sure the boost/remove fear is a minor power that is situational but it comes up in many situations. The cause fear is always usefull as a debuff because it can even hit creatures normally immune to fear and it lacks those pesky clauses about the fear effect not stacking. For a level one maneuver either one is potent but not overpowering. Combined into one and allowing both effects from one action is not a level 1 effect. It is closer to level 3 or 4.

As a 3'rd of 4'th level maneuver that grants a +1 Enhancement bonus this is somewhat reasonable. As a 1'st level maneuver this is not. Especially since it scales with ranks and not initiator level.
Compare it with Wind Stride (Desert Wind 1), Steely Strike (Iron Heart 1), and Rabid Wolf Strike (Tiger Claw 2). Your maneuver does more, scales better and doesn't have a drawback.
Well if you ask me all of those maneuvers kinda suck and I never really saw anyone picking them besides the very 1st levels, after which they're quickly swaped for pretty much anything. Compare with Leading the charge (+1 damage per Initiator level on charges, affects all allies, stance so it doesn't eat your swift actions), Sudden Leap(basically a movement speed bonus equal to your jump check, and you can full attack with it) and Shadow Blade Technique (roll twice and either use best or deal extra damage).

But I'm willing to change it to Enhancement bonus.

Fair enough, but your maneuver still does far more than any of those. Leading the charge only works on charges, and doesn't raise AC, attack bonus or anything else, just damage. Granted it does that for everyone and as a stance so it's very good. Since the swords can't be enchanted something that gives an enhancement bonus to attack and damage should stack unless they are using tricks like greater magic weapon somehow. If it was just a first level boost that raised the enhancement bonuses on attack and damage I would shrug it of as a boost that can address one of the weaknesses of the style, and that it is just one of many ways of archiving this effect, but as a boost to everything it's a bit much for 1'st level. The bonus to skill and ability checks means it will also see a lot of out of combat use. My suggestion would be to also limit what the boost gives you to just attack, damage, and one of AC, saves or speed, and then drop the other 4 bonuses (skill, ability and the two not picked). Remember all martial adapts get to replace maneuvers every even level so 1'st level maneuvers don't have to be great. Most/All of yours scale very well and so I would be reluctant to replace them.

Too flexible, all the other manuvers that grant a special option grant just one. Try;
It does grants multiple options, but none of them is specially hot. What was the last time you saw anyone using a disarm or bullrush or sunder?

If I was not going to use the special option I would not pick a maneuver that specializes in that special option. Every other maneuver that grants a special option grants one and does something to make it unique. This maneuver clearly does that for sunder, and so sunder should be it's only special option. There are other maneuvers out there that grant bull rush or disarm, and they tend to effectively give you the feat for the special as a second level maneuver that stacks with the feat.
Keep in mind that my suggested fix gives you two attacks as a standard action and you get a fair amount of bonus damage on each attack. If you do think it to weak either add a +4 on the attack roll to sunder, and/or allow the sundering of armor, but it is already stronger than the other 2'nd level special option granting maneuvers.

I like the effect but it's much better than Wall of Blades, a comparable second level manuver, it replicates an epic feat, and it's unclearly worded. you should specify whether the attack roll is ranged or melee, add the drawbacks that it can't be used while denied dex to ac, that it must be used before you know the result of the enemie's attack roll, and that if you fail you are automatically hit.
Even with all of that it probably is too strong for a second level manuver.
Wall of Blades works against all attacks, this one only works against ranged attacks. Also clarified it's a melee attack roll. And Monavic Devas are relatively low CR monsters that can do it , only best (they can also deflect single-target auto-hit spells whitout attack rolls). Deflection was seriously overrated in the Epic handbook. There's even an alternate rogue class feature that allows her to deflect spells in one of the 3.5 books.

Fair enough, objection withdrawn.


Strike, Standard action, single sword attack, choose to attack an ally or enemy. With those changes this would be an excellent maneuver.
Rather change it to Slow enemy or Haste ally keeping it as a boost and move the Dazing for the 3rd level one.

Boosts are supposed to be 1 round self buffs. Slow enemy/haste ally doesn't sound like a self buff.

err... tone the speed down to just 'your base speed' instead of four times it and it works. The multiplier should wait till a later maneuver. As it is there are many things which will boost your speed.
You're also moving on a straight line, so even with the boosted speed you can't hit that many enemies unless they conveniently stacked themselves in a line as well. This maneuver is supposed to be about moving extra fast after all.

I see the point behind the maneuver but that is too strong for this level, where other beat-sticks don't even have iterative attacks yet. Moving your speed and attacking all would be appropriate, moving four times that is too much at this level. Keep that for a higher level maneuver, since speed is reasonably easy too boost.

Unique and not overpowering, maybe knock them out of the stance if the servant dies but otherwise this does seem fine.
The servant is awfully fragile so no.

There are other stances that are easy to be knocked out of but I see your point.

Too similar to "Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused". Keep one of the two, not both.
Kept this one, and added the remove daze/stun/paralyzis/mind affecting.

I'll look over it.

Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused (2) - Compare to Dazing Strike (IH 5; strike, single attack, Fort save) or Disrupting Blow (DM 5; strike, single attack, not actually dazing but functionally identical in most cases). This is a boost, so its effects are more powerful than a strike since you can combine it with a full attack (or just the strike of your choice) for multiple attacks.
Altough it has been drastically changed now, do notice that it only applies to your next sucessful attack on the round, not all your attacks for the round.

Yes but those single attack things are supposed to be strikes.

Disappearing Elegance (4) - Compare to Mithral Tornado (IH 4; adjacent opponents only, no movement, one attack, although +2 on attack rolls), Adamantine Hurricane (IH 8; adjacent opponents only, no movement, two attacks, although +4 on attack rolls), and Desert Tempest (DW 6; one attack per opponent, may only move up to your speed, only gain attacks against opponents you move adjacent to and then away from, must actually move instead of teleporting).
Again you cannot combine it with big two handed weapons with special fancy effects.

I see Garryl is raising mostly the same objections I am raising, I think you overestimate how much of a limiting factor two blade style is.

Thanks for the critiques!

You are welcome, even though we don't agree so much on this discipline.
Logged

E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 01:14:52 PM »

Sure there are one handed slashing weapons that allow those.
Kama for trip attacks, Slashing Sword for reach, Cutting Wheel for disarm attempts. Whip for trip and disarm attempts if you want to make one of your weapons nearly useless, but there have been so many whip alternates and fixes printed I'm sure someone can find something useful. I'm sure there are more but the point is they do exist.
You could even use a bastard sword as one of the blades since it's one handed when you are proficient with it.
Hmm, maybe I did understimate one-handed weapons. Ok, put a clause you need to be proficient with the weapons beforehand.

Where's slashing sword from again?

Oh and for high damage what about Urskan Steelclaws? They are onehanded light slashing weapons are they not?  Smirk It's a pitty you can't use hammers with this style though, hammering the garden into shape sounds fun. (Why can't I find hammer axes where one end is a hammer and the other an axe? they exist in real life so why not dnd  Big Eyes)
I don't recall making those light weapons. Tongue

Both read like viable maneuvers especially at 1'st level. Sure the boost/remove fear is a minor power that is situational but it comes up in many situations. The cause fear is always usefull as a debuff because it can even hit creatures normally immune to fear and it lacks those pesky clauses about the fear effect not stacking. For a level one maneuver either one is potent but not overpowering. Combined into one and allowing both effects from one action is not a level 1 effect. It is closer to level 3 or 4.
Good arguments, but I still want to keep the dual-wield aspect. Removed the ability to bypass fear immunity and made it non-stacking. How is it now?

Fair enough, but your maneuver still does far more than any of those. Leading the charge only works on charges, and doesn't raise AC, attack bonus or anything else, just damage. Granted it does that for everyone and as a stance so it's very good. Since the swords can't be enchanted something that gives an enhancement bonus to attack and damage should stack unless they are using tricks like greater magic weapon somehow. If it was just a first level boost that raised the enhancement bonuses on attack and damage I would shrug it of as a boost that can address one of the weaknesses of the style, and that it is just one of many ways of archiving this effect, but as a boost to everything it's a bit much for 1'st level. The bonus to skill and ability checks means it will also see a lot of out of combat use. My suggestion would be to also limit what the boost gives you to just attack, damage, and one of AC, saves or speed, and then drop the other 4 bonuses (skill, ability and the two not picked).
I like the idea of "hit harder and gain minor extra bonus of your choice", so put it on.

Remember all martial adapts get to replace maneuvers every even level so 1'st level maneuvers don't have to be great. Most/All of yours scale very well and so I would be reluctant to replace them.
Just as planned. Smirk

Also do notice that there's some excellent 1st level maneuvers you always want to keep like Sudden Leap.


If I was not going to use the special option I would not pick a maneuver that specializes in that special option. Every other maneuver that grants a special option grants one and does something to make it unique. This maneuver clearly does that for sunder, and so sunder should be it's only special option.
It does so for sunder because it's the weakest option. Destroying your loot is never a good idea.


There are other maneuvers out there that grant bull rush or disarm, and they tend to effectively give you the feat for the special as a second level maneuver that stacks with the feat. Keep in mind that my suggested fix gives you two attacks as a standard action and you get a fair amount of bonus damage on each attack. If you do think it to weak either add a +4 on the attack roll to sunder, and/or allow the sundering of armor, but it is already stronger than the other 2'nd level special option granting maneuvers.
I don't think it's weak, but I believe it's overspecialized. The problem with that kind of maneuver it's that many enemies simply do not care about disarm/sunder because they have no weapons, or/and have such massive bonus you're hard pressed to beat them. So I wanted a feat that allows versatility on basic combat maneuvers.
 
Boosts are supposed to be 1 round self buffs. Slow enemy/haste ally doesn't sound like a self buff.
You're granting yourself the ability to slow down enemies and hasten allies. How is that not a self buff?

In other words, I like to try new stuff.

I see the point behind the maneuver but that is too strong for this level, where other beat-sticks don't even have iterative attacks yet. Moving your speed and attacking all would be appropriate, moving four times that is too much at this level. Keep that for a higher level maneuver, since speed is reasonably easy too boost.
Ok, changed.

Yes but those single attack things are supposed to be strikes.
Again, trying out new things.

I see Garryl is raising mostly the same objections I am raising, I think you overestimate how much of a limiting factor two blade style is.
I get it, once you've shown those weapon options, I agree it could use a little more scaling down.

You are welcome, even though we don't agree so much on this discipline.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to keep this on the same level as Doll Judgement (on my sig). Perhaps you could take a look at it when you have the chance?
Logged

veekie
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 9034


WARNING: Homing Miko


« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2011, 02:22:08 PM »

Quote
Where's slashing sword from again?
I suspect it might be the Spinning Sword from Eberron(Secrets of Sarlona was it?), a onehanded weapon with reach and something.
Logged

The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."
Catty Nebulart
Curious George
****
Posts: 332



Email
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2011, 02:29:23 PM »

Yes veekie is correct, Spinning Sword is secrets of Sarlona. Damn typos  Bang Head

Steelclaws presumably function as gauntlets or claws, either would qualify as a light one handed weapon IIRC. Basically they should fall under the same wonkyness with weapon types as unarmed strike, through whatever path they get there. If they do not you really need to put some notes around that since that is pretty clearly RAI.

Quote
It does so for sunder because it's the weakest option. Destroying your loot is never a good idea.
The DM is supposed to give equivalent loot if stuff is sundered in order to be close to WBL. If they do or do not is a different issue, but that is the intent and that is how Wizards supposedly balanced stuff.


Quote
I don't think it's weak, but I believe it's overspecialized. The problem with that kind of maneuver it's that many enemies simply do not care about disarm/sunder because they have no weapons, or/and have such massive bonus you're hard pressed to beat them. So I wanted a feat that allows versatility on basic combat maneuvers.

That is why you have more maneuvers known than granted so you can plan on what you expect to face  and select maneuvers appropriate to your current set of enemies.

Quote
Just as planned.
Also do notice that there's some excellent 1st level maneuvers you always want to keep like Sudden Leap.

Yes there are but they are the exception. Many scale by there just being a better version of the maneuver at later levels, such as the healing strikes or the shadow hand teleports.
 
Quote
Speaking of which, I'm trying to keep this on the same level as Doll Judgment (on my sig). Perhaps you could take a look at it when you have the chance?

I glanced at it before but it didn't interest me much, but sure I'll look over it. Also you make almost as many typos as I do, shame on you.

Will look at the enhancements later, this is a quick rundown of my notes as I rapidly worked my way through the entire school. I'm in a bit of a hurry so it's not as detailed and as well thought out as the previous commentaries.

Quote
Karmic Punishment of the Idle and Unfocused
Ancient Temple (Boost)

Let's see getting haste and slow 2 level earlier than the wizard (granted they are limited) and this is a strike, not a boost. As a strike it's also far less objectionable since you are using a standard action for the effect.

Quote
Asura Realm Ascension to Nirvana
Powerfull but an ally buff, I would add wording that specifically excludes or included the user from the list of allies.

Quote
Mortal Realm Rise from Delusion
Iron Heart Surge on crack and kluncky wording. How about a boost that grants Freedom of Movement for one round and dispells all effects that where susspended by FoM?

Quote
Disappearing Elegance

The radious is probably to big for this level of manuver, try 5 ft radious per 2 initiator levels.

Quote
Obsession with the Present World

Too powerfull. You are overly fond of attacks that override immunities. Under only very rare circumstances should a manuver both inflict something with an immunity override and provide a buff to allies.

Quote
Meditation  of Life Ending Sword
What? a 5'th level manuver that is better in most ways than the equivalent 5'th level spell? Back to the drawing board with this one.

Quote
Floral Nirvana
Nice, love the flavor, but this is essentially a perfect dodge, which probalby should be higher level than 5'th.And I'd think about droping the ability and skill buff since as it is it has way to many out of combat applications.

Quote
Ghostly Wheel of Pain
If you are going to *** the action econemy like this at least make a note that since it's your soul it uses your hp, spell slots, readied manuvers, power points, daily uses, etc. Also add a note about equipment and so forth.

Quote
God's Flashing Slash as Karma Gust
drop this down to a 4x multiplier and fix the "Flashing Slash Formation as Karma Gust" as suggested earlier and this works well. If you think 4x is too slow add a note that it can be a straight line in and direction, including up, though if you can't fly you'll fall. Also this should really read fullround action.

Quote
Tower Watching Blade's Bullet-Cutting Third Eye
Typo you have a ':' in the name. Also instead of action wasted how about that single attack? Afterall you already got a free move and two free attacks out of the counter.

Quote
Five Signs of the Dying Deva
No. Just no. Many varied effects, many attacks, overriding immunities and ally buffing.

Quote
Delusion of Enlightenment
You know my oppinion on this. How about this, instead of granting reach you can attack people/things as if you where in melee with a range of ranks*5 ft, as long as you have line of effect. That gives you the ranged attacks without giving absurd reach. Also specify that this stance doesn't work with "200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash" and it's derivatives, since carving a hundereds of feet wide path through opponents is a bit much.

Quote
Slashing a Flower Upon One's Head
Quote
you automatically learn their Ex and Su abilities when you learn them
You don't say. ammusing typo. Unfortunatly the power of this is way too high, it's basicly a giant *** to whatever you hit.

Quote
Displeasure of the Seven Sins
Now this is a level appropriate IHS.

Quote
Slash Clearing the Six Senses
This is not level appropriate. At epic levels this would be appropriate.

Quote
Approaching Disillusion
Interesting, a wall effect. I would limit their duration (keep them dismisible) and leave them immobile. Possibly also specify a height of 10 feet. I'd be hesitant to replicate a plane shift at the same level as when wizards get them, but clerics do get them earlier.

Quote
Attainment of Eternal Truth
Level appropritate, but a lot stronger than any comparable manuver, perhaps limit the range? But you should clear up the wording at the moment it can be read in two ways, either you teleport when you initiate this manuver (this is what I assume to be RAI), or you teleport at the end of the round.

Quote
Deva Realm's God Swords
Make a list of permissible enhancement bonuses. is bane at will intended? What about those weapon enhancements that let you summon elemental monoliths? Sure artificers can do it at 5'th level or so, but there is a reason why some people say artificers are tier 0. Also swinged is not a word, swung is the correct word.

Quote
Slash of The Eternity
Reroll the attack each time or do they use a new roll each time? I assume the later, but clarify, including what happens if you get hit with buffs/debuffs or if buffs run out. It would probaly be safest to use current stats that way you can't uberbuff for one round and have it stay into effect for the entire combat. Also it should probaly read Strike/Counter, since it can be used as a counter. and make it an imediate action, not a free action to counter timestop.

Quote
Secret of Life and Death
You know all these raise dead effect are really not appropriate for someone focused on the cycle of death and rebirth. Reincarnate and revivify are probaly better choices to emulate from a fluff perspective. Also they are granted to close to when the cleric gets them. While it doesn't matter to CoDzilla the healbot will be obsoleted by this.

Quote
Six Realms Ageless Obsession
9'th level stance? wierd. The effects wierder, but strangly apporpiate. It reminds me a bit about a certain exalted martial art.

Quote
Paschal Moon Reflecting Satellite Slash
Again with the overrides, make it function as an imprisonment[/quote] which probably is still way too powerfull as 9'th level manuver shouldn't be quite as powerfull as 9'th level spells. Possibly grant a second save after a minute or something Will or Fort would be appropriate. I assume that if the tree is killed the subject is freed? The extensive anti-divination defenses are also a bit much, having the tree appear where you wish is porbaly also too much, have it appear where the enemy was improsonned, you can always move the tree in the mundane way.
Logged

E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
oslecamo
Grape ape
*****
Posts: 1940



« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2011, 06:19:21 PM »

Steelclaws presumably function as gauntlets or claws, either would qualify as a light one handed weapon IIRC. Basically they should fall under the same wonkyness with weapon types as unarmed strike, through whatever path they get there. If they do not you really need to put some notes around that since that is pretty clearly RAI.
Well I'll think about that later.

The DM is supposed to give equivalent loot if stuff is sundered in order to be close to WBL. If they do or do not is a different issue, but that is the intent and that is how Wizards supposedly balanced stuff.
Enphasis on "supposed". From my experience many DMs don't do so, and the fear of most parties is always losing their expensive equipment.

That is why you have more maneuvers known than granted so you can plan on what you expect to face  and select maneuvers appropriate to your current set of enemies.
Eerr, not really. Martial classes still know an awfully low number of maneuvers, and between the 9 basic schools to choose from, you're still off better picking up more general stuff.

Besides I really want it to be a versatile maneuver on that department.

Yes there are but they are the exception. Many scale by there just being a better version of the maneuver at later levels, such as the healing strikes or the shadow hand teleports.
They may be the exception, but they're also what makes the book tick and considered an excellent melee support book. I'm working here based on those "best" maneuvers
 
Let's see getting haste and slow 2 level earlier than the wizard (granted they are limited) and this is a strike, not a boost. As a strike it's also far less objectionable since you are using a standard action for the effect.
On the other hand, using a boost for this means you're not using  a boost for something else. And i must point out wizard haste/slow can affect multiple targets at range with a single casting, not to mention bigger duration.

Quote
Asura Realm Ascension to Nirvana
Powerfull but an ally buff, I would add wording that specifically excludes or included the user from the list of allies.
Done

Quote
Mortal Realm Rise from Delusion
Iron Heart Surge on crack and kluncky wording. How about a boost that grants Freedom of Movement for one round and dispells all effects that where susspended by FoM?
It's suposed to be stronger than IHS because it's higher level than IHS. And I believe your version would be even stronger because mine only nullifies one penalty, while yours would nullify them all.

Quote
Disappearing Elegance
The radious is probably to big for this level of manuver, try 5 ft radious per 2 initiator levels.
Sounds good.

Quote
Obsession with the Present World
Too powerfull. You are overly fond of attacks that override immunities. Under only very rare circumstances should a manuver both inflict something with an immunity override and provide a buff to allies.
Heh, you're kinda right on that. The overriding immunities is a leftover from my monster classes project where well, it really isn't much fun being a monster if you don't get to use your main trick at all at higher levels. But since the maneuvers here do grant a buffing alternative, you're right they shouldn't bypass immunities.

Quote
Meditation  of Life Ending Sword
What? a 5'th level manuver that is better in most ways than the equivalent 5'th level spell? Back to the drawing board with this one.
Hmm, for some reason I tought Raide dead was just 4th level. Changed it to Reincarnation, what about it?

Quote
Floral Nirvana
Nice, love the flavor, but this is essentially a perfect dodge, which probalby should be higher level than 5'th.And I'd think about droping the ability and skill buff since as it is it has way to many out of combat applications.
Perfect dodge was available to casters way back at 2nd level (Wings of Cover). Changed the numeric bonus to "choose one to buff" instead of "choose all to buff" just like I had done with Moment of Eternity.

Quote
Ghostly Wheel of Pain
If you are going to *** the action econemy like this at least make a note that since it's your soul it uses your hp, spell slots, readied manuvers, power points, daily uses, etc. Also add a note about equipment and so forth.
Note: White Raven tactics is even stronger.

Also put on the clarifications you sugested.

Quote
God's Flashing Slash as Karma Gust
drop this down to a 4x multiplier and fix the "Flashing Slash Formation as Karma Gust" as suggested earlier and this works well. If you think 4x is too slow add a note that it can be a straight line in and direction, including up, though if you can't fly you'll fall. Also this should really read fullround action.
I had already changed it to 4x speed since our last discussion. Also changed to fullround action.

Quote
Tower Watching Blade's Bullet-Cutting Third Eye
Typo you have a ':' in the name. Also instead of action wasted how about that single attack? Afterall you already got a free move and two free attacks out of the counter.
Hm? I don't get what you're saying here. It's suposed to just waste the action that was used to attack, not the oponent's whole round. Clarified it.

Quote
Five Signs of the Dying Deva
No. Just no. Many varied effects, many attacks, overriding immunities and ally buffing.
Five attacks at level 11 isn't even stretching it. Removed automatically overriding immunities, allowed saves, and added option to remove immunity. How about it now? Remember it's a fullround action.

Quote
Delusion of Enlightenment
You know my oppinion on this. How about this, instead of granting reach you can attack people/things as if you where in melee with a range of ranks*5 ft, as long as you have line of effect. That gives you the ranged attacks without giving absurd reach. Also specify that this stance doesn't work with "200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash" and it's derivatives, since carving a hundereds of feet wide path through opponents is a bit much.
You think so? That's precisely the kind of thing I was visioning doing with this school!

Quote
Slashing a Flower Upon One's Head
Quote
you automatically learn their Ex and Su abilities when you learn them
You don't say. ammusing typo. Unfortunatly the power of this is way too high, it's basicly a giant *** to whatever you hit.
How so? Everybody has backup tricks.

Quote
Slash Clearing the Six Senses
This is not level appropriate. At epic levels this would be appropriate.
Please do explain. Magic missile is auto-hit and is a lv 1 spell. What's exactly epic about "save or damage" again?

Quote
Approaching Disillusion
Interesting, a wall effect. I would limit their duration (keep them dismisible) and leave them immobile. Possibly also specify a height of 10 feet. I'd be hesitant to replicate a plane shift at the same level as when wizards get them, but clerics do get them earlier.
Now if they were immobile they wouldn't be much approaching would they? Tongue

Quote
Attainment of Eternal Truth
Level appropritate, but a lot stronger than any comparable manuver, perhaps limit the range? But you should clear up the wording at the moment it can be read in two ways, either you teleport when you initiate this manuver (this is what I assume to be RAI), or you teleport at the end of the round.
Put a range limit and clarified.

Quote
Deva Realm's God Swords
Make a list of permissible enhancement bonuses. is bane at will intended? What about those weapon enhancements that let you summon elemental monoliths? Sure artificers can do it at 5'th level or so, but there is a reason why some people say artificers are tier 0. Also swinged is not a word, swung is the correct word.
There's too many enchantments out there for me to go trough them all, so I would rather do a list of no-good ones. Bane probably isn't very healthy, but summon elemental monolith would be pretty cool if you ask me. Forbid bane and siliar specialized effects.

Also there's no such thing as tier 0. Tier 1 is already having all the powerfull shiny stuff out there at the same time.

Quote
Slash of The Eternity
Reroll the attack each time or do they use a new roll each time? I assume the later, but clarify, including what happens if you get hit with buffs/debuffs or if buffs run out. It would probaly be safest to use current stats that way you can't uberbuff for one round and have it stay into effect for the entire combat. Also it should probaly read Strike/Counter, since it can be used as a counter. and make it an imediate action, not a free action to counter timestop.
Clarified the attack thingies which had completely escaped me, thanks for pointing them out!

I'm not going to create a new category of maneuver here, and it needs to be a free action if you want to have hope of actually using it for that intent. If your oponent's using time stop, they'll be using it on their first round, and then chances are that you're flatfooted and can't use immediate actions.

Quote
Secret of Life and Death
You know all these raise dead effect are really not appropriate for someone focused on the cycle of death and rebirth. Reincarnate and revivify are probaly better choices to emulate from a fluff perspective. Also they are granted to close to when the cleric gets them. While it doesn't matter to CoDzilla the healbot will be obsoleted by this.
Aren't healbots usually tought as something nobody wants to play? Tongue

Revivify is non-srd so that's a no-no. Anyway already put the reincarnate on the lower level maneuver. At 8th level, I believe the name SECRET of life and death is a strong hint you're now bending the rules to help yourself a little.

Quote
Paschal Moon Reflecting Satellite Slash
Again with the overrides, make it function as an imprisonment which probably is still way too powerfull as 9'th level manuver shouldn't be quite as powerfull as 9'th level spells. Possibly grant a second save after a minute or something Will or Fort would be appropriate. I assume that if the tree is killed the subject is freed? The extensive anti-divination defenses are also a bit much, having the tree appear where you wish is porbaly also too much, have it appear where the enemy was improsonned, you can always move the tree in the mundane way.

This maneuver demands you to hit with both attacks (not a single touch attack), and then your oponent to fail the save. At this level, a Balor has what, +23 to its reflex save (19 base +4 unholy aura)? You'll need a Wisdom of 20 to make them fail the save on a 2.

Now compare with baleful polymorph, which is ranged, doesn't demand attack rolls, can affect pretty much everybody except some obscure creatures and is just 5th level. Or its bigger cousin, Polymorph any object. Just saying, Imprisonment isn't really much of an example of a 9th level spell.

Anyway, changed so that the tree appears where your oponent was for coolness sake, I liked your sugestion of using profession(gardener) to transplant it to somewhere else after.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 07:42:16 PM by oslecamo » Logged

Catty Nebulart
Curious George
****
Posts: 332



Email
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2011, 11:12:30 PM »

Don't have the time for a full response at the moment so here is a quick one.

That is why you have more maneuvers known than granted so you can plan on what you expect to face  and select maneuvers appropriate to your current set of enemies.
Eerr, not really. Martial classes still know an awfully low number of maneuvers, and between the 9 basic schools to choose from, you're still off better picking up more general stuff.

Besides I really want it to be a versatile maneuver on that department.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

Yes there are but they are the exception. Many scale by there just being a better version of the maneuver at later levels, such as the healing strikes or the shadow hand teleports.
They may be the exception, but they're also what makes the book tick and considered an excellent melee support book. I'm working here based on those "best" maneuvers

Fair enough, I have been thinking about revising ToB maneuvers to scale better myself.
 
Let's see getting haste and slow 2 level earlier than the wizard (granted they are limited) and this is a strike, not a boost. As a strike it's also far less objectionable since you are using a standard action for the effect.
On the other hand, using a boost for this means you're not using  a boost for something else. And i must point out wizard haste/slow can affect multiple targets at range with a single casting, not to mention bigger duration.

Yes, but a wizard has limited uses of this at 5'th level. You get a per encounter or more uses at 3'rd.

Quote
Mortal Realm Rise from Delusion
Iron Heart Surge on crack and kluncky wording. How about a boost that grants Freedom of Movement for one round and dispells all effects that where susspended by FoM?
It's suposed to be stronger than IHS because it's higher level than IHS. And I believe your version would be even stronger because mine only nullifies one penalty, while yours would nullify them all.

My version would remove one specific class of effects, a stupidly wide class, but not just any one effect. Of course since the entire school is supernatural you do need something to knock down anti-magic fields.

Quote
Floral Nirvana
Nice, love the flavor, but this is essentially a perfect dodge, which probalby should be higher level than 5'th.And I'd think about droping the ability and skill buff since as it is it has way to many out of combat applications.
Perfect dodge was available to casters way back at 2nd level (Wings of Cover). Changed the numeric bonus to "choose one to buff" instead of "choose all to buff" just like I had done with Moment of Eternity.

Wings of Cover is considered broken for a reason...

Quote
Five Signs of the Dying Deva
No. Just no. Many varied effects, many attacks, overriding immunities and ally buffing.
Five attacks at level 11 isn't even stretching it. Removed automatically overriding immunities, allowed saves, and added option to remove immunity. How about it now? Remember it's a fullround action.

I'll take a look at it.

Quote
Delusion of Enlightenment
You know my oppinion on this. How about this, instead of granting reach you can attack people/things as if you where in melee with a range of ranks*5 ft, as long as you have line of effect. That gives you the ranged attacks without giving absurd reach. Also specify that this stance doesn't work with "200 Hell Realm Flowers in 1 Slash" and it's derivatives, since carving a hundereds of feet wide path through opponents is a bit much.
You think so? That's precisely the kind of thing I was visioning doing with this school!

I'll grant the image is cool, and army fighting probably doesn't come up that often, and the combo covers an absurdly large area. By 11'th level having a ground speed of 60 or so shouldn't be a problem, and if you have a reach weapon or you have enlarge person on your reach is 80ft. this means that you can roughly cover a rectangle of 160 ft wide by 400 ft long using God's Flashing Slash as Karma Gust, just missing the corners on that. With a bit of optimization those can be improved quite a bit, I mostly picked the numbers for convenience. Anyway the huge area is only a minor problem, threatening everything with a 80 ft radius is a far bigger concern, because of all the AoOs that enemies will provoke if they try anything. Most throwing weapons don't have that kind of range and it will only grow.

Quote
Slash Clearing the Six Senses
This is not level appropriate. At epic levels this would be appropriate.
Please do explain. Magic missile is auto-hit and is a lv 1 spell. What's exactly epic about "save or damage" again?

Magic missile has several effects that defend against it, it is stopped by spell resistance, it has limited uses per day, it's widely acknowledged to be stupidly good for it's level, it has built in damage caps.
This auto-targets the worst save, it deals damage based on an easily boosted value, and you get two shots at it. This is an exalted style perfect attack, and to top it of you get to replicate a fairly useful spell as an alternate option. Granted the spell is level appropriate, but this much flexibility and power in a single maneuver?

Quote
Deva Realm's God Swords
Make a list of permissible enhancement bonuses. is bane at will intended? What about those weapon enhancements that let you summon elemental monoliths? Sure artificers can do it at 5'th level or so, but there is a reason why some people say artificers are tier 0. Also swinged is not a word, swung is the correct word.
There's too many enchantments out there for me to go trough them all, so I would rather do a list of no-good ones. Bane probably isn't very healthy, but summon elemental monolith would be pretty cool if you ask me. Forbid bane and similar specialized effects.
[/quote]

If there is too many to list as permissible there are also too many to list to ban.

Quote
Quote
Secret of Life and Death
You know all these raise dead effect are really not appropriate for someone focused on the cycle of death and rebirth. Reincarnate and revivify are probaly better choices to emulate from a fluff perspective. Also they are granted to close to when the cleric gets them. While it doesn't matter to CoDzilla the healbot will be obsoleted by this.
Aren't healbots usually tought as something nobody wants to play? Tongue

Revivify is non-srd so that's a no-no. Anyway already put the reincarnate on the lower level maneuver. At 8th level, I believe the name SECRET of life and death is a strong hint you're now bending the rules to help yourself a little.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRevivify.htm

Quote
Paschal Moon Reflecting Satellite Slash
Again with the overrides, make it function as an imprisonment which probably is still way too powerfull as 9'th level manuver shouldn't be quite as powerfull as 9'th level spells. Possibly grant a second save after a minute or something Will or Fort would be appropriate. I assume that if the tree is killed the subject is freed? The extensive anti-divination defenses are also a bit much, having the tree appear where you wish is porbaly also too much, have it appear where the enemy was improsonned, you can always move the tree in the mundane way.

This maneuver demands you to hit with both attacks (not a single touch attack), and then your oponent to fail the save. At this level, a Balor has what, +23 to its reflex save (19 base +4 unholy aura)? You'll need a Wisdom of 20 to make them fail the save on a 2.

Now compare with baleful polymorph, which is ranged, doesn't demand attack rolls, can affect pretty much everybody except some obscure creatures and is just 5th level. Or its bigger cousin, Polymorph any object. Just saying, Imprisonment isn't really much of an example of a 9th level spell.

Anyway, changed so that the tree appears where your oponent was for coolness sake, I liked your sugestion of using profession(gardener) to transplant it to somewhere else after.
[/quote]

But balefull polymorph is stopped by SR, so that is like an attack roll. And Immunity to Polymorph is not that uncommon. Anyone specializing in the Ancient Temple School will have high wisdom due to the saves, I'm thinking most users will be rangers or swordsages (or when using my houserules swordsage/Ranger multiclass. Depending on how you read you alternate ranger rules that might also be built into your ranger.)
Logged

E: "Did they... did they just endorse the combination of the JSDF and US Army by showing them as two lesbian lolicons moving in together and holding hands and talking about how 'intimate' they were?"
B: "Have you forgotten so soon? They're phasing out Don't Ask, Don't Tell."
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!