[3.5] The Saboteur (base class, WiP)

[VennDygrem]

Class conceptual design:

The idea for this class came from trying to find a class, homebrew or otherwise, to fit a character concept for Littha's 'Deus Ex Machina' PbP game. It's a dystopian Steampunk setting, and I wanted to create a semi-sneaky bomber class. Nothing quite fit the bill, though there were elements of both the Pathfinder Alchemist and the Warlock that I liked. The Explosives class feature is clearly based off of the Alchemist's bomb, but Alchemists are limited to a number of bombs per day, and need to use one of their discoveries to be able to throw more than one per round; even then, the bombs were one of the only class features of the Alchemist I was interested in for this character.

I then thought maybe I could simply reflavor the Warlock, even select one of the many homebrew Warlock class fixes, but that still didn't quite fit, as I'd have to find some way to reflavor their fiendish abilities and even then it just didn't strike my fancy. Eventually, I decided to draw from the features I liked from both and create a new class altogether.

The result is a great blaster that can be even better by modifying their explosives through Bright Ideas, while adding extra utility through the same class feature and a few others. That would allow some customization to the class as well. I liked the idea of the Saboteur burrowing through the earth to place charges at a building's support structures rather than the Warlock's Fell Flight, though I intend to add a Jet Pack or Gyrocopter Bright Idea soon, since flight is almost necessary at later levels. I want to also add some scalability to the lower-level Ideas so that they remain useful for the entirety of the class, even if they're less useful at late levels than the Greater and Master Ideas.

For utility, I plan to offer the Warlock's Deceive Item ability as a lesser Bright Idea, allowing the Saboteur to be decent at crafting along with their focus on Intelligence. Overall, the class doesn't particularly need any one stat to be effective, though having a decent Dex, Con, and Int certainly help.

The Saboteur



Hit Die: d8

Lvl   BAB          Fort  Ref  Will    Special          
************************************************************
1     +0           +2    +2    +0     Explosives, Trapfinding, Bright Idea (least)
2     +1           +3    +3    +0     Evasion, Bright Idea (least)
3     +2           +3    +3    +1     Precision Bombing
4     +3           +4    +4    +1     Uncanny Dodge, Bright Idea (least)
5     +3           +4    +4    +1     In Like Flynn
6     +4           +5    +5    +2     Clever Dodge, Bright Idea (lesser)
7     +5           +5    +5    +2     Improved Precision Bombing
8     +6/+1        +6    +6    +2     Bright Idea (lesser)
9     +6/+1        +6    +6    +3     Improved Evasion
10    +7/+2        +7    +7    +3     Bright Idea (lesser)
11    +8/+3        +7    +7    +3     In Like Flynn II
12    +9/+4        +8    +8    +4     Bright Idea (greater)
13    +9/+4        +8    +8    +4     
14    +10/+5       +9    +9    +4     Bright Idea (greater)
15    +11/+6/+1    +9    +9    +5     
16    +12/+7/+2    +10   +10   +5     Bright Idea (greater)
17    +12/+7/+2    +10   +10   +5     In Like Flynn III
18    +13/+8/+3    +11   +11   +6     Bright Idea (master)
19    +14/+9/+4    +11   +11   +6     
20    +15/+10/+5   +12   +12   +6     Bright Idea (master)

Skills (4 + Int modifier, x4 at 1st level): Appraise, Balance, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Hide, Knowledge (Arch + Eng), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Knowledge (Local), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival, Swim, Tumble, Use Magic Device

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Saboteurs are proficient in all simple weapons and martial ranged weapons. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Explosives: Starting from 1st level, a Saboteur learns how to mix simple substances to create highly explosive devices. These explosives deal fire damage, but since they also include damage from shrapnel and other explosive substances, these explosives ignore an amount of energy resistance equal to 1/2 the Saboteur's class level.

At first level, these grenade-like explosives function much like a flask of alchemist's fire, requiring a ranged touch attack and dealing 1d6 fire damage plus the Saboteur's Intelligence modifier with a direct hit to the target square. Creatures in any square adjacent to the target's square, aka the splash area, take minimum damage, or 1/2 damage with a successful Reflex saving throw (for instance, a Saboteur at first level with a 16 Intelligence takes 1 plus Intelligence modifier damage, for 4 damage, or 2 with a successful save). These explosive grenades have a range increment of 20 ft.

For every two levels in the Saboteur class after first, the base damage of these grenades improves by 1d6 (dealing 2d6 damage at 3rd level, 3d6 at 5th, and so on).

Throwing an explosive is an attack action, and the Saboteur may throw more than one in a round if they gain extra attacks from having a high base attack bonus. These take the usual penalties, and qualify for weapon-based feats such as Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot, and so on (though a Saboteur can not gain extra explosives attacks in a round from feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting, Rapid Shot or Manyshot). The Saboteur activates his or her explosives when used, and thus other creatures can not accidentally set one off or use any of the explosives without special instruction by the Saboteur. Even then, any creature other than the Saboteur must make a successful Knowledge (Engineering) check at a DC of 20 + the Saboteur's class level to properly activate the explosive.

Trapfinding: You gain the Trapfinding ability of a Rogue, and thus can find and disable traps with a DC higher than 20, including magical traps.

Bright Idea: The Saboteur is constantly inventing new ways to do his job or make it easier. At 1st level, the Saboteur gains access to a suite of useful tricks and gadgets that strike his or her teammates with awe. Saboteurs discover one Bright Idea at 1st level and 2nd level, and discover a new one every two levels after 2nd. They begin only with access to least-grade Bright Ideas, increasing to lesser at 6th level, greater at 12th level, and finally master-grade Bright Ideas at 18th level. Some of these inventions improve the Saboteur's explosives, while others are altogether separate. Through constant tinkering and tweaking, several of the lower-level Bright Ideas even remain potent into later levels. A Saboteur may gain access to any grade of Bright Idea that they have access to. See the list of Bright Ideas below (or work with your DM to create new, level-appropriate Bright Ideas).

At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, a Saboteur may decide to replace one of his Bright Ideas with any other of the same grade. Thus, a least Idea can be replaced with any other least Idea, but cannot be replaced with a higher-grade Idea.

Evasion: By 2nd level, you've gained proficiency at dodging out of the way of explosions through trial and error, and gain the Evasion special ability. This ability only works when the Saboteur is wearing light or no armor.

This ability becomes Improved Evasion starting at 9th level.

Precision Bombing: Starting at 3rd level, you've gained mastery over the throwing of your grenades. You gain Shaped Splash (RoE, pg. 111) as a bonus feat, applicable only to explosives that you or another Saboteur have made.

Furthermore, you may now plant explosives to any solid surface and leave it there without it exploding right away. You may choose whether this is a delayed time-bomb, setting a pre-determined duration until explosion, or whether it is a triggered bomb. The trigger works at up to Medium range, and takes a swift action to activate. These explosives have no other effects except as determined by the type of explosive you decide to plant.

Uncanny Dodge: Starting at 4th level, a Saboteur can react to danger before his or her senses would normally allow her to do so. You retain your dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if you are caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, you still lose your Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If a Saboteur already has uncanny dodge from a different class, they automatically gain improved uncanny dodge instead.

In Like Flynn: Saboteurs are used to descending deep below a building to access its supporting structure, climbing to its highest spire, or even swimming below the waves to blow through an aquatic entryway.  At 5th level, you choose one mode of movement, gaining a burrow or climb speed of 15 ft., or a swim or fly speed of 30 ft. This choice improves its speed by 5 ft. for every two class levels after 5th. Unless otherwise noted, these movement modes are Extraordinary (Ex) abilities and follow the rules presented under the respective entries in Special Abilities->Movement Modes:

• Burrow: A Saboteur with a burrow speed has devised special digging claws that can dig through dirt at their full burrow speed, or through stone at half their speed (rounded down to the nearest 5-ft. increment); they may choose whether or not to leave a tunnel behind them while digging through dirt, but not through stone. Your digging claws do not occupy a body slot as a magic Hands slot item would since they fit over any such item; they are not made for use as a weapon and any such attempt to use them as such incur improvised weapon penalties.
• Climb: A Saboteur with a climb speed has adhesive gloves or some other climbing apparatus, and has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks.
• Swim: A Saboteur with a swim speed has trained to hold their breath exceptionally long while under water, and has flipper-like coverings for their hands and feet. They can move through water at their swim speed without making Swim checks. They have a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. Furthermore, they can hold their breath for up to one minute per point of Constitution rather than the normal limit.
• Fly: A Saboteur with a fly speed has built a personal gyrocopter or jetpack (depending on the technology level of the campaign; consult your DM) and can move through the air with average maneuverability at the indicated speed if carrying no more than a light load. However, your flying machine is unstable or has limited fuel, and can only support you for a number of minutes per day equal to your class level (this time can be distributed throughout the day as you see fit). Since only you know the secret tricks that keep your invention running without falling apart, no other creatures can strap on your device in an attempt to gain a fly speed, as it simply does not work for them.

Clever Dodge: Saboteurs are nimble, but their best defense remains their sharp mind. Saboteurs may add their Intelligence bonus, if any, as a Dodge bonus to AC. Any situation or effect that negates a character's Dexterity bonus, such as being flat-footed, also negates any dodge bonuses the character may have.

Improved Precision Bombing: At 7th level, you know how to handle your explosives such that you can exclude a number of 5-ft squares out of the blast zone equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1), in addition to the squares adjacent to direct-hit targets granted by your Shaped Splash feat.

In Like Flynn II: At 11th level, the Saboteur's ability to get in to restricted spaces becomes supernatural; You can select one more movement mode from the In Like Flynn list, and the mode selected at 5th level improves as follows:

• Burrow: You gain the Earth Glide ability, like that of an earth elemental, following all the same rules, though you move at your burrow speed. This is a (Su) ability.
• Climb: You have constructed a set of four mechanical tentacle-arms which, through magical and mechanical experimentation, you have fused to your body. These provide a permanent Spider Climb effect on you, as the spell, though you move at your full climb speed. Furthermore, you have perfect balance, and are immune to being knocked prone such as from a natural or magical earthquake and to being tripped by any enemy. You may, of course, choose to fall prone if you so desire. These extra arms can hold items for you, including a shield if you so desire, but are still somewhat unwieldy; they can not be used as weapons, nor do they grant you extra attacks or actions in a round. These are (Ex) abilities.
• Swim: You no longer need to breathe in order to survive, and your body is not subject to damage from the tremendous pressure of the ocean depths. As a result, you are also immune to the damage resulting from the Crush or Constrict special attacks of some creatures. Lastly, you have a permanent Freedom of Movement effect on you, as the spell. These are (Su) abilities.
• Fly: You have constructed a set of powerful mechanical wings which, through magical and mechanical experimentation, you have fused to your body. Your maneuverability improves to Good and your fly speed improves by an additional 30 ft. Furthermore, you can fly while carrying a medium load, and have no limit on the duration of your flight. This is an (Ex) ability.

In Like Flynn III: At 17th level, the additional movement mode you selected for In Like Flynn II improves to match its counterpart in that entry. Furthermore, both of your movement modes from this class feature gain an additional speed boost of 30 ft (therefore, racial movement modes and those gained through other abilities and effects do not benefit from this speed boost).

[VennDygrem]

Bright Ideas

Note: Saboteurs are always prepared for any and all situation; Any Bright Ideas that modify how your explosives work (such as by changing the energy type or the effect) can be applied on the fly and thus modified explosives can be intermixed with each other or your normal explosives if given multiple attacks in a round, unless otherwise noted in the entry. Bright Ideas may only selected once, unless otherwise noted.

Least:

• Energy Bombs: Choose one elemental damage type (acid, cold, or electricity). You can create any number of your explosives which deal this energy type instead of fire, as normal. Explosives which deal this alternate damage type overcome their respective energy resistance the same way that your normal explosives overcome fire resistance. You may select this Bright Idea more than once, selecting a new energy type from the list each time.
• Flashbang: This allows you to create explosives that neutralize your opponents' senses. This explosive deals no damage, but blinds all targets in the blast area unless they succeed on a fortitude save (the direct hit target takes a -2 penalty on this roll). Creatures with no eyes or ability to perceive light are immune to this effect as normal, though creatures with more than two eyes take a cumulative -1 penalty for each eye they possess beyond the usual two. Creatures who save versus this effect and that are not immune are still dazzled for one round.
• Expansive Blast: Your explosives now have a splash radius of 10 feet rather than 5 feet. Additionally, targets in the splash zone (ie: all but direct-hit targets) take an extra one point of damage per damage die of the explosive.
• Smoke Bomb: You are able to create explosives meant to distract rather than cause damage. A smoke bomb explosive deals no damage, but it does create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates. The cloud functions as the fog cloud spell, filling an area equal to twice the bomb’s splash radius for 1 round per level. At 10th level, you may choose for these to function as the solid fog spell.
• Glue bomb: You can create an explosive that truly hinders your opponents. This explosive deals no damage, though a creature that takes a direct hit from a glue bomb becomes entangled and must make a reflex save or become glued to the floor as if it had failed its save against a tanglefoot bag. Creatures in the splash area also make reflex saves, but those that fail their saves are merely entangled and not glued to the floor; those who make this save are not entangled at all.
• Night Vision Goggles: You have a pair of Night Vision Goggles that grant you darkvision out to 60 ft. The goggles also possess an infrared-like sensory range, functioning much like the See Invisibility spell.
• Lucky Break: You tend to get yourself into dangerous situations, but no matter what, you come out smelling like roses. You gain a luck bonus to a Saving Throw of your choice equal to one plus one-half your Intelligence modifier, rounded down (minimum 1). You may change the Save that this ability applies to as a move action. At 7th level, this is reduced to a swift action. At 13th, it is reduced once more to an immediate action.
• Far Throw: Your explosives' range increment improves to Close range.
• Shatter Bug: You can create small nodules (aka bugs) that stick when placed or thrown onto a solid surface at Close Range. These miniature explosives ring at a specific, high-pitched frequency, emulating the Shatter spell. You may only use one of these at a time, but you also have the choice of triggering the bug at any time as a swift action. This trigger only works at Medium range. This has no effect on any creature except those mentioned in the description of the Shatter spell.

Lesser:

• Clusterbomb: Once per round, you can choose to send out a clusterbomb instead of one of your normal explosives. The clusterbomb deals an extra 2d6 damage, increasing to 4d6 damage at 12th level, and 6d6 damage at 18th level. This doesn't take any extra time beyond the attack action of the normal explosive, and can be combined with the Energy Bombs bright idea to deal a damage type other than fire.

New Feats

Another Bright Idea:
You can select any extra Bright Idea from any category (Least, Lesser, etc.) that you currently have access to. You must meet any prerequisites listed for the Bright Idea, and may not select any Bright Idea more than once unless otherwise noted.

Based on Extra Invocation, but that feat's always seemed a bit restrictive. If this seems too much, I'll nerf it to mirror the warlock feat, ie: only pick a Bright Idea of one category lower than you have access to.

[VennDygrem]

Ok then. I'm looking to refine the class, so any help and comments will be welcome. (I've made some comments at the top of the OP, so please read that section first)

The chassis isn't finished yet, with some more levels left to fill in. The class appears somewhat front loaded, though at the later levels, the bomb damage and Bright Ideas will do most of the filling in. There's also no capstone other than a second Master-grade Bright Idea (which might just be enough, if I design them appropriately).

One concern I have is that the bombs may end up being too powerful, with the potential for up to 3 bombs per round each with two direct-hit targets (as long as the second is adjacent to the first target) for a heck of a lot of damage at 20th level. Besides that, there are plans for other bonuses to the damage, which might necessitate reducing the potential for extra attacks, such as by turning it into a standard action and adding a single extra attack somewhere in the middle of the class levels.

Any thoughts? Also please feel free to recommend class features and Bright Ideas for the different levels. The class is being designed for a Steampunk-inspired setting, though hopefully the end result could fit in just about any setting.

I admit, as of right now the class is a bit of a mess, but once again, it's under renovations.

[Nanshork]

Under Explosive, when you say "For every other level in the Saboteur class after first", I assume that you mean ever odd level?  The way it is written, every other level could mean every level that isn't the first level.

Precision Bombing already lists the bonus included from Improved Precision Bombing.


That's all I've got for now.

[VennDygrem]

I see what you mean. I'll make those edits when I get home. I was working between two different copies of the text, which has left the wording and everything pretty rough.

[Garryl]

Clever Dodge is on the class table, but has no description. Improved Precision Bombing (3+Int mod spaces ignored) comes at the same level as the improved version of Precision Bombing (allowing you to ignore Int mod spaces). You should probably put Bright Idea before Evasion, since you get your first idea at level 1.

I find it cute that at high levels, your burrow speed from Tunnel Master might easily be faster than your land speed.

[VennDygrem]

Yeah, as stated before, I've got to edit the precision bombing since I moved the improved version to its own entry.

Clever dodge was conceptualized but not yet written up; I was thinking of it giving the saboteur a dodge bonus to AC equal to either their Int mod or 1/2 Int mod rounded down depending on feedback.

And when you say 'cute', is that a good thing or bad? I wanted to reflect the idea of continually becoming a more efficient digger (in search of structural stress-points), and thought it made for a more unique movement ability than usual. Also, gonna edit the OP to note that this is a wip.

Generally speaking, what do people think about the damage of the explosives? Should I keep it at sneak-attack/eldritch blast style progression but allow iterative attacks, or should I reduce the number of attacks to one or two? I was also considering just making it xd6, where x equals class level (and thus fairly equivalent to what a wizard/sorcerer could do), with just one explosive per round. The problem there is that casters that want to be blasters can just have a twinned split ray or what-have-you, dealing whatever ridiculous amount of damage, and so they're still better. It depends on whether you're in a game where the casters are blasting, or you're playing in a game where they have better things to do (and know it).

On a side note, I think it's kind of strange to put the improved burrowing just two levels after the original ability, but I wanted to make it easy to split the speed in half at first, so introducing it at burrow speed 20 seemed appropriate.

[veekie]

You might want to steal some of the bomb modifying discoveries off the Alchemist.

[Nanshork]

You might want to steal some of the bomb modifying discoveries off the Alchemist.

+1

And don't forget these from Ultimate Magic.

[VennDygrem]

I'll likely be adapting many of them into Bright Ideas (same thing, really, though it also mixes in class feature options like invocations and such), and I'll be inventing some of my own. For instance, I had an idea for an Expanding Foam bomb that quickly expands upon detonation and rapidly sets, duplicating the effects of Wall of Stone or similar spells. Such ideas should give the class several utility and control options on top of the damage-dealing.

[VennDygrem]

Changed Tunnel Master into 'In Like Flynn' and broke it up into two parts.

Basically giving the class some increased mobility options as well as further customizability. Trying to balance the different options is difficult. Nobody ever selects Climb or Swim speeds, so having some really interesting and useful Improved options seemed like good enough incentive. Out of the four, Flight improves the least, because it's flight. Everyone wants (Ex) flight, including the Wizard. However, you might want flight AND Freedom of Movement, so you need to decide between having all-day, kick-ass flight or having ok flight plus the freedom of movement. Or you might decide you just really want Doc Ock arms.

Still probably need to tweak them, and have several times already (the improved version of climb started out as a Su spider climb and body equilibrium, until I had the idea of the doc ock arms).

Also wondering if I should have an In Like Flynn III where the Saboteur selects a third movement option and their second one improves to second tier, but I'm kind of OK with just granting this much for now.

[Garryl]

You may also wish to note that simply having a Swim or Climb speed also allows you to take 10 on those checks.

Here are some ideas for class features and bright ideas. Feel free to use anything that looks interesting.
- Disable Magic: Dispel or temporarily suppress a spell effect or magic item.
- Cunning Evasion: Move up to 5' per point of Intelligence bonus whenever you succeed on a Reflex save and negate the effect with Evasion.
- Sudden Pit: (Requires a burrow speed) Create a pit under a nearby creature, causing it to fall if it fails a Reflex save. The depth of the pit is based on your effective burrow speed in that terrain.
- Quick Lift: (Requires a fly speed) Move with flight, grab an ally or grapple an opponent along the way, and release at the end of your movement.
- Foe Climber: (Requires a climb speed) You may use Climb checks in place of grapple checks when grappling with larger creatures. Your actions are not restricted when grappling only with larger creatures if you succeeded on the last opposed grapple (or Climb) check you made against each such creature you are grappling with. You can maintain a hold on creatures of any size, instead of creature no larger than one size category larger than you.
- Deep Sea Diver: (Requires a swim speed) You automatically hold your breath when dealing with noxious vapors (assuming you want to), protecting you from them as per a Necklace of Adaptation, even if the vapor works without inhalation. You can see twice as far underwater, through fog, and in similar environments (to a limit of your normal vision). You are immune to pressure damage.

[VennDygrem]

Before moving on to the Bright Ideas and other class features, what I'd really like advice on is the Explosives damage. Is 30d6+Int mod and whatever other modifiers too much per round at level 20? Should I change it to xd6, x = class level, and just make it once per round? Is there some other solution I should consider?

[Garryl]

You can't meaningfully answer whether the damage is too much or not until you define what "too much damage" actually means, or at least what an appropriate amount would be. I usually use (level + 2 +/- 1)d6 (or 3-11 + 3.5*level average damage) as a rough minimum for how much a class should be able to reliably do each round with just its bare bones class features and no real synergy with anything else (ie: highest score in the primary ability and maybe some level appropriate items that are designed specifically for that class, but feats are on the scale of Weapon Focus and other items are irrelevant). In other words, it's my guideline for how much damage a damage dealing class should do in the worst possible build that still acts like the class is supposed to act. If I'm making a class that emphasizes skills, battlefield control, or other alternatives to winning with damage, or if the damage is particularly accurate, I'm fine with it being a bit lower. Of course, it's a rough guideline at best. I'm still reevaluating what feels right every time I look at a class I or someone else made. Note that these numbers are based on what a Warblade can do just using his standard action +xd6 damage maneuvers, a magic greatsword, and a few points of Power Attack here and there.

Judging by that metric and with an initial 18 in Intelligence, the Saboteur's explosives keep pace until level 4 (2d6+4 vs. 5d6-7d6), then catch up at level 8 when the 2nd attack comes online (8d6+12 vs. 9d6-11d6). Level 15 is another big leap due to the 3rd attack (24d6+24 vs. 16d6-18d6). Even if you disagree with this guideline, the analysis of the breakpoints still shows where the damage jumps and by how much. Everywhere else, it scales rather linearly, so it's easy to see how it compares to whatever values you may be expecting.

Table: Expected Explosive damage by level.

Level	Int	Damage	Average	Splash
1	18	1d6+4	7.5	5
2	18	1d6+4	7.5	5
3	18	2d6+4	11	6
4	19	2d6+4	11	6
5	19	3d6+4	14.5	7
6	21	3d6+5	15.5	8
7	21	4d6+5	19	9
8	22	8d6+12	40	20
9	22	10d6+12	47	22
10	24	10d6+14	49	24
11	24	12d6+14	56	26
12	27	12d6+16	58	28
13	27	14d6+16	63	30
14	27	14d6+16	63	30
15	27	24d6+24	108	48
16	28	24d6+27	111	51
17	28	27d6+27	121.5	54
18	33	27d6+33	127.5	60
19	33	30d6+33	138	63
20	34	30d6+36	141	66

[VennDygrem]

So, I'm thinking that the damage is not an issue. At low levels where it quickly loses steam compared to a caster (ie: that example of 2d6+12  vs. 7d6), I'm going to default to the same argument the designers have for the Warlock, of lasting power versus higher power. At those levels, the Saboteur can bomb all day long, while the Wizard/Sorcerer runs out of spell slots. He even has a couple of tricks, and skill versatility, to remain useful. Later on, he catches up again anyway, and by 20th level he's easily dishing out about the same damage, reliably, as a wizard that can also reliably Twin similar damage spells. Of course, that's not counting the fact that the Wizard does the same twinned damage to the whole (usually larger) area, versus the Saboteur's splash damage, nor the possibility of other metamagic rapidly increasing the damage potential (twinned split ray, for starters). Still, I plan on giving other reliable tricks to continue helping even things out, as well as a couple other Bright Ideas to potentially increase the damage even more.

Basically, I'm not so worried anymore. Also, started filling in the Bright Ideas. Mostly done with Least ideas for now, on to Lesser.

[VennDygrem]

One thing I'm wondering about is an ability that I was initially building the class around. The one thing for starting that I wanted to add to the lower levels is planting timed/triggered explosives, but I'm not sure whether that's worth its own class feature/bright idea, or if it's too much to just build into the Explosives class feature.

Is being able to delay the blast, or stick it to something and trigger it at range, worth a class feature? Is it worth having to give up one of the other Bright Ideas just to take? If it were simply added as an option to the Explosives class feature, is that too much?

I'm thinking this is a bit of a grey area, as there is little, if anything, to gauge it against.
***edit***
Decided to build it into Precision Bombing. Figured it doesn't alter the effectiveness that much, especially since it deals no greater damage than normal. It's just a functional option, though one that I feel is iconic nonetheless.

[Rejakor]

Give a short setup time for a stronger bomb. (5 rounds, can't be moved)

Let the Saboteur have multiple of these bombs but overlapping blasts of these bombs has no additional effect.  He can have as many of these bombs at any one time as his levels in Saboteur.  At first, he can only have a time trigger on these bombs, but then he gets remote, proxy trigger, and even specific action trigger (when the wizard casts a spell, the bomb the saboteur hid in his pocket goes off, disrupting the spell and hurting the wizard) later on.  Not too later on.  I'd say at levels 3, 6, and 9.

If you want, you could let the saboteur have movable versions of these bombs later so as well as his ubiquitous hand grenades he also has a pocket full of remote trigger dynamite sticks.

I'd also like to see more infiltration style options, including defenses against divinations and ward spells.

As for the In Like Flynn I ability, i'd give Gliding (rules for it in the Dragonborn and Raptoran entries you could crib) with a portable hang-glider like device, not Flight.  There should also be, fairly early on, a zipline-esque ability that scales with level, initially in range, but later on with extra abilities like doing it while falling as an immediate action, doing it to avoid enemy attacks, or to avoid area effects.  Also some reflexive alchemical tricks like Immediate Smoke Bomb or Face Full Of Laughing Gas for when people attack you would be pretty nice.  And something automatic for moving through combat without being stopped/AoO'd.

You should probably also add 'Personal hot air balloon' to the list of devices that a Saboteur could use to gain flight, whenever you give it out (In Like Flynn II, I think).  I'd also remove the limitation on the original ability improving or everyone's first choice will be gliding.  And i'd give In Like Flynn II at level 9, and In Like Flynn I at 3.  In Like Flynn III should grant the speed boost, and a supernatural movement form (teleportation, etherealness, extradimensional travel), at level 14.

Class also needs some kind of immunity to explosions of any kind so they can walk away from explosions slowly putting on sunglasses.

EDIT:  I'd shorten the range on the bombs or make it harder to use them against people with cover or in combat, and give out canny dodge and maybe something extra earlier.  Idea being that he doesn't stand in the back chucking bombs, he's actually there in the thick of it to get the right angle.

EDIT EDIT:  Oh, hey, precision bombing.  With timed bombs, you could kill asmodeus at level 3.  Cool.

[PhaedrusXY]

"I'm the mad bomber who bombs at midnight! Yeah baby! Yeah!"


Sorry... just had to do that. Cool idea for a class. I'll look over the mechanics, and maybe give you some real feedback instead of trolling.

[VennDygrem]

"I'm the mad bomber who bombs at midnight! Yeah baby! Yeah!"


Sorry... just had to do that. Cool idea for a class. I'll look over the mechanics, and maybe give you some real feedback instead of trolling.

Haha, hadn't even thought of that! Awesome.
By the way, It's "I'm the evil Midnight bomber what bombs at midnight!" 
Gotta love the Tick.

Give a short setup time for a stronger bomb. (5 rounds, can't be moved)

Let the Saboteur have multiple of these bombs but overlapping blasts of these bombs has no additional effect.  He can have as many of these bombs at any one time as his levels in Saboteur.  At first, he can only have a time trigger on these bombs, but then he gets remote, proxy trigger, and even specific action trigger (when the wizard casts a spell, the bomb the saboteur hid in his pocket goes off, disrupting the spell and hurting the wizard) later on.  Not too later on.  I'd say at levels 3, 6, and 9.

If you want, you could let the saboteur have movable versions of these bombs later so as well as his ubiquitous hand grenades he also has a pocket full of remote trigger dynamite sticks.

I'd also like to see more infiltration style options, including defenses against divinations and ward spells.

As for the In Like Flynn I ability, i'd give Gliding (rules for it in the Dragonborn and Raptoran entries you could crib) with a portable hang-glider like device, not Flight.  There should also be, fairly early on, a zipline-esque ability that scales with level, initially in range, but later on with extra abilities like doing it while falling as an immediate action, doing it to avoid enemy attacks, or to avoid area effects.  Also some reflexive alchemical tricks like Immediate Smoke Bomb or Face Full Of Laughing Gas for when people attack you would be pretty nice.  And something automatic for moving through combat without being stopped/AoO'd.

You should probably also add 'Personal hot air balloon' to the list of devices that a Saboteur could use to gain flight, whenever you give it out (In Like Flynn II, I think).  I'd also remove the limitation on the original ability improving or everyone's first choice will be gliding.  And i'd give In Like Flynn II at level 9, and In Like Flynn I at 3.  In Like Flynn III should grant the speed boost, and a supernatural movement form (teleportation, etherealness, extradimensional travel), at level 14.

Class also needs some kind of immunity to explosions of any kind so they can walk away from explosions slowly putting on sunglasses.

EDIT:  I'd shorten the range on the bombs or make it harder to use them against people with cover or in combat, and give out canny dodge and maybe something extra earlier.  Idea being that he doesn't stand in the back chucking bombs, he's actually there in the thick of it to get the right angle.

EDIT EDIT:  Oh, hey, precision bombing.  With timed bombs, you could kill asmodeus at level 3.  Cool.

Some nice ideas here, but I'm basing some of the timing of class features based on the ability to gain similar options for other classes. For instance, if I moved In Like Flynn I to level 3, gliding would be appropriate, but at level 5, a Wizard has the option of taking Fly as a level 3 spell. Sure, they can't use it as much, but they also have greater versatility. As for Raptoran/Dragonborn, notice that they get to fly at level 5/6, though only to a limited degree. That's primarily my balancing point for In Like Flynn. Note that I originally didn't even have an In Like Flynn III; that came later as I decided the backend needed some loving. Once again, though, at those late levels the real class features are going to be the Greater and Master Bright Ideas. I'm going to need fantastic ideas for those. See below for my thoughts on high level Saboteurs.

Short setup time for stronger bomb isn't really needed. The bombs do plenty of damage already, and since it's energy damage, isn't subject to DR, though I'm hazy on Hardness rules. The SRD doesn't have much info on that. Perhaps I should have a Bright Idea similar to the Warlock's Hammer Blast that deals normal damage to objects, so you're not stuck having to use Acid bombs or (later) sonic bombs to take down a structure. A Saboteur's fire bombs explode with a lot of force, and should easily be able to weaken an object if not outright destroy it. A Cold bomb should make the object brittle and easier to break, rather than taking 1/4 damage. Not sure what to do here.

Different planted bomb types are planned as additions, though I'll probably add those later. Some of them might just be Bright Ideas. Or one Bright Idea granting extra planted bomb options.

As for Precision Bombing killing Asmodeus, I think that's selling the bombs a bit much and underselling the Archfiend a bit. I get the point, though, and ought to include a cap on the number of bombs you can plant at a time.

I like the idea of a zipcord, and though it fits the concept well, in practice it may end up being fairly situational. This sort of character is built toward urban campaigns, but it's going to invariably encounter open environments.

Personal hot air balloon, gyrocopter, jetpack, it's all mechanically the same; the fluff is up to the player and DM. Just like the climb speed doesn't have to just be "digging claws" etc.

I was considering a method for being resistant to your own bombs, but I'm not sure how to do that. If I gave energy resistance, it would be partially overcome automatically the way I set up the explosives ability. I could do something similar to warlock/dragonfire adept saying your own bombs don't harm you, but that doesn't really make sense either. I mainly just have the Saboteur being primarily mortal and susceptible, however they're smart enough not to be around when the bomb goes off. They should be masters of preparation, and skilled blasters (I toyed with giving them 6+int skills, but with Int being the primary stat, felt that was overkill).

Uncanny Dodge at 4th level falls in line with a Rogue's progression.

Bomb range is based on Bomb class feature of the PF Alchemist, which is 20 ft. Seems appropriate to me. Not everyone will take the Far Throw bright idea, reflecting that some people are good with just shorter-range bombing and don't practice their lobbing skills.

Once again, I'm holding off on supernatural type abilities until much later levels. The Saboteur is supposed to be "Just that good" up until then, at which point he simply becomes legen- wait for it- dary. He sort of grows into the stories about the saboteur who can sneak into anywhere and take down the establishment. I will include some of this later on, but right now I'm trying to cement the basic structure and lower levels.

[veekie]

I was considering a method for being resistant to your own bombs, but I'm not sure how to do that. If I gave energy resistance, it would be partially overcome automatically the way I set up the explosives ability. I could do something similar to warlock/dragonfire adept saying your own bombs don't harm you, but that doesn't really make sense either. I mainly just have the Saboteur being primarily mortal and susceptible, however they're smart enough not to be around when the bomb goes off. They should be masters of preparation, and skilled blasters (I toyed with giving them 6+int skills, but with Int being the primary stat, felt that was overkill).

Evasion, a large save bonus against your own bombs, and not failing on 1s vs their own bombs?