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Author Topic: Base Class Reference & Tier Information  (Read 25450 times)
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PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« on: April 23, 2011, 12:55:06 PM »

I have staged a coup of the Why Tier X's are in Tier X series of threads with a complete list. My hope is to free JaronK the burden of now a 3rd and a maybe 4th 'tier system for classes' thread. This will save the discussion of tiers themselves for the tier thread. Concern over specific classes can go here.

Let me know if I am missing any non-variant base class in 3.5. I intend to include them all.

I do not claim to intimately know or play each class. The work I have done is completely at the mercy of the boards and my be changed, so please try to keep indignation to its lowest. Any balance concerns are considered after the dirty handbook fixes.

You will notice that the upper tiers are casters. If you are looking for all casting classes, feel free to look here.

Finally, I will try to keep up with the discussion and add mention about specific class features when needed; hence the two posts per tier.


Coloring Key for optimizing the base classes:
Too simple or too few options: It is just about as powerful or weak as it is going to be even after optimization so it's not worth the effort. For low tier classes this means you can't stretch it into higher tiers as easily. For upper tiers its nice that you probably won't suck that much even if you are fairly new.
Some complexity, some options: You get out what you put in. Heavy optimization won't be as obvious as blue colored, but it will be noticable. Consider this normal 'stretchiness' to go up or down a tier dependent on the build and player. JaronK noticed that optimization bumps up or down a tier - two for classes on the edge or with more extensive cheese. This is normal.
Too complex or too many options: You get more than what you put in. You really need to understand how this class works. For high tier classes this is bad because you can't start cold and be the epitome of tier 1. For lower tier classes this is actually a good thing because if you try, you can pull it up more than normal. However it might be frustrating to get past the learning curve.


Tier Outline
6(3+3NPC): Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind (CP 9), Warrior, Samurai (CW 6), Truenamer (TM 198)

5(14+2NPC): Battledancer (DC 26), Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements), Eidolon (Gh 16), Expert, Fighter, Healer (MH 8), Knight, Lurk (CP 13), Magewright (ECS 256), Mariner (LotT 13), Mlar (Dungeon Magazine 100 256-257 githyanki section), Monk, Ninja (CAd 5), Noble (DCS 50), Paladin, Samurai (with Imperious Command feat), Soulborn (MoI 25), Soulknife, Swashbuckler (CW 11)

4(18+1NPC): Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 156), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)

3(16): Ardent (CP 5), Bard, Beguiler (PHB2 6), Binder (TM 9), Crusader (ToB 8), Dread Necromancer (HH 84), Duskblade (PHB2 19), Factotum (Du 14), Incarnate (MoI 20), Psychic Rogue (with powers), Psychic Warrior, Ranger (Wildshape variant), Shadowcaster (TM 111), Shugenja (CD 10), Swordsage (ToB 15), Warblade, Wilder,

2(9): Binder (with Online Vestiges), Death Master (DC 31), Favored Soul (CD 6), Mystic (DCS 47), Psion, Sha'ir (DC 51), Shaman (OA 23), Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman (CD 14), Wu Jen (CArc 14)

1(6): Archivist, Artificer (ECS 29), Cleric, Druid, "Erudite" variant Psion (with Spell to Power ACF), Wizard

Other(12): Aberrant Paragon (DragMag332 45), Eidoloncer (Gh 17), Drow Paragon, Dwarf Paragon, Elf Paragon, Gnome Paragon, Half-Dragon Paragon, Half-Elf Paragon, Half-Orc Paragon, Halfling Paragon, Human Paragon, Kobold Paragon, Orc Paragon, Tiefling Paragon



Tier Relative Amount Breakdown: (missing a few classes, feel free to recalculate)
6: 8.3% with NPCs, 4.5% without
5: 22.2% with NPCs, 21.2% without
4: 26.3% with NPCs, 27.2% without
3: 22.2% with NPCs, 24.2% without
2: 12.5% with NPCs, 13.6% without
1: 8.3% with NPCs, 9% without

Displayed in groups of 2:
6&5: 30.6% with NPCs, 25.8% without
4&3: 48.6% with NPCs, 51.5% without
2&1: 20.8% with NPCs, 22.6% without

Results:
The mode is Tier 4 which JaronK suspected might be the 'default' level of power a PC should have, followed by Tier 3. Notice that when NPC classes are considered Tier 3 and 5 tie for second place, making us even more sure that Tier 4 is truly the norm. Tier 6 and 1 have the same number of outliers when NPC classes are considered, which is good because each is considered 'broken' albeit in opposite manners. Furthermore the mostly non-casting Tier 5 makes up a greater chunk than the all full caster classes of Tier 2, perhaps indicating greater hesitation with 9th level spells and powers.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 08:07:35 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 12:55:21 PM »

Base Class Chassis Chart

Class?+intd?BABFortRefWill* = Variable Tier
Aberrant Paragon2+d8?3/4BadBadGood*
Aristocrat4+d83/4BadBadGoodNPC
AdeptNPC
Archivist
Ardent
Artificer
Barbarian
Bard
Battledancer4+d8FullBadGoodBad
Beguiler
Binder
Cleric
Commoner2+d41/2BadBadBadNPC
Crusader
Dargonfire Adept
Death Master
Divine Mind2+d103/4GoodBadGood
Dragon Shaman
Dread Necromancer
Drow Paragon
Druid
Duskblade
Dwarf Paragon
Eidolon2+d8FullBadBadGood~1
Eidoloncer2+d61/2BadBadGood~1*
Elf Paragon
Erudite
Expert6+d63/4BadBadGoodNPC
Factotoum
Favored Soul
Fighter2+d10FullGoodBadBad
Gnome Paragon
Half-Dragon Paragon
Half-Elf Paragon
Half-Orc Paragon
Halfling Paragon
Healer4+d81/2GoodBadGood
Hexblade
Human Paragon
Incarnate
Jester
Knight2+d12FullBadBadGood
Kobold Paragon
Lurk
Magewright2+d41/2BadBadGood
Mariner6+d8FullGoodGoodBad
Marshall
Master
Mlar4+d63/4BadBadGoodNPC
Monk4+d83/4GoodGoodGood
Montebank
Mystic
Nightstalker4+d63/4BadGoodGood
Ninja6+d63/4BadGoodBad
Noble4+d83/4BadGoodGood
Orc Paragon
Paladin2+d10FullGoodBadBad
Psion
Psychic Rogue
Psychic Warrior
Ranger
Rogue
Samurai2+d10FullGoodBadBad
Savant
Scout
Sha'ir
Shadowcaster
Shaman
Shugenja
Sohei
Sorcerer
Soulborn2+d10FullGoodBadBad
Soulknife
Spelltheif
Spirit Shaman
Swashbuckler
Swordsage4+d103/4BadGoodGood
Tiefling Paragon
Totemist
Truenamer4+d63/4BadBadGood
Warblade
Warlock
Warmage
Warrior2+d8FullGoodBadBadNPC
Wilder
Wizard
Wu Jen
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 12:33:24 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 12:55:30 PM »

In-Class Skills Charts


Abbreviations for Table 1: United, PHB Skills
A = Appraise
Ba = Balance
Bl = Bluff
Cl = Climb
Co = Concentration
Cr = Craft
DS = Decipher Script
Dm = Diplomacy
DD = Disable Device
Dg = Disguise
EA = Escape Artist
F = Forgery
GI = Gather Information
HA = Handle Animal
He = Heal
Hi = Hide
I = Intimidate
J = Jump
L = Listen
MS = Move Silently
OL = Open Lock
P = Profession
R = Ride
Se = Search
SM = Sense Motive
SH = Sleight Of Hand
SL = Speak Language
Sc = Spellcraft
Sp = Spot
Su = Survival
Sw = Swim
Tu = Tumble
UM = Use Magic Device
UR = Use Rope


Abbreviations for Table 2: Separate or non-PHB Skills
AH = Autohypnosis
IF = Iajitsu Focus (OA 58)
KA = Knowledge (Arcana)
Ke = Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)
KD = Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
KG = Knowledge (Geography)
KH = Knowledge (History)
KL = Knowledge (Local)
KNa = Knowledge (Nature)
KNo = Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)
KPs = Knowledge (Psionics)
KR = Knowledge (Religion)
KPl = Knowledge (The Planes)
Ps = Psicraft
PA = Perform (Act)
PC = Perform (Comedy)
PD = Perform (Dance)
PK = Perform (Keyboard Instruments)
PO = Perform (Oratory)
PP = Perform (Percussion Instruments)
PSt = Perform (String Instruments)
PW = Perform (Wind Instruments)
PSi = Perform (Sing)
TS = Truespeak (ToM 195)
UP = Use Psionic Device


Table 1: United, PHB Skills
ClassABaBlClCoCrDSDmDDDgEAFGIHAHeHiIJLMSOLPRSeSMSHSLScSpSuSwTuUMUR
Aberrant ParagonBlClCoDmEAHiIMSSMSu
AristocratABlDmDgFGIHAILRSMSLSpSuSw
Adept
Archivist
Ardent
Artificer
Barbarian
Bard
BattledancerBaClEAHiJLMSOLSHSwTu
Beguiler
Binder
Cleric
CommonerClCrHAJLPRSpSwUR
Crusader
Dragonfire Adept
Death Master
Divine MindClCoCrJPRSw
Dragon Shaman
Dread Necromancer
Drow Paragon
Druid
Duskblade
Dwarf Paragon
EidolonBaBlCoHiISMSp
EidoloncerCoSc
Elf Paragon
Erudite
Expert Any 10Any 10
FactotoumABaBlClCoCrDSDmDDDgEAFGIHAHeHiIJLMSOLPRSeSMSHSLScSpSuSwTuUMUR
Favored Soul
FighterClCrHAIJR
Gnome Paragon
Half-Dragon Paragon
Half-Elf Paragon
Half-Orc Paragon
Halfling Paragon
HealerCoCrDmHAHePSMScSu
Hexblade
Human Paragon
Incarnate
Jester
Kobold Paragon
KnightClHAIJRSw
Lurk
MagewrightCoCrHAPSc
MarinerBaBlClCrEAGIJPSLSpSuSwTuUR
Marshall
Master
MlarCoCrPScSu
MonkBaClCoCrDmEAHiJLMSPSMSpSwTu
Montebank
Mystic
NightstalkerBaBlCoCrDmDDEAGIHiLMSOLPSeSHScSpSuUMUR
NinjaBaBlClCoCrDgEAHiJLMSOLSeSMSHSpSwTu
NobleABlDmGIILPRSMSL
Orc Paragon
PaladinCoCrDmHAHePRSM
Psion
Psychic Rogue
Psychic Warrior
Ranger
Rogue
SamuraiCoCrDmIRSM
Savant
Scout
Sha'ir
Shadowcaster
Shaman
Shugenja
Sohei
Sorcerer
SoulbornBlClCoCrDmGIHAHeIPRScSw
SoulknifeClCoCrHiJLMSPSpTu
Spelltheif
Spirit Shaman
Swashbuckler
Swordsage
Tiefling Paragon
Totemist
TruenamerCoCrUMUR
Warblade
Warlock
Warmage
WarriorClHAIJRSw
Wilder
Wizard
Wu Jen
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 12:37:40 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2011, 12:55:39 PM »

Table 2: Separate or non-PHB Skills

ClassAHIFKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPlPsPAPCPDPKPOPPPStPWPSiTSUP
Aberrant ParagonKDKPl
AristocratKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPlPAPCPDPKPOPPPStPWPSi
Adept
Archivist
Ardent
Artificer
Barbarian
Bard
BattledancerPAPCPDPKPOPPPStPW
Beguiler
Binder
Cleric
Commoner
Crusader
Dargonfire Adept
Death Master
Divine MindAHKPsKRPs
Dragon Shaman
Dread Necromancer
Drow Paragon
Druid
Duskblade
Dwarf Paragon
EidolonKNaKPl
EidoloncerKAKNaKRKPl
Elf Paragon
Erudite
Expert Any 10Any 10
FactotoumAHIFKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPlPsPAPCPDPKPOPPPStPWPSiTSUP
Favored Soul
Fighter
Gnome Paragon
Half-Dragon Paragon
Half-Elf Paragon
Half-Orc Paragon
Halfling Paragon
HealerKNaKR
Hexblade
Human Paragon
Incarnate
Jester
KnightKNo
Kobold Paragon
Lurk
MagewrightKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPl
MarinerKLKNa
Marshall
Master
MlarKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPl
MonkKAKRPAPCPDPKPOPPPStPW
Montebank
Mystic
NightstalkerKAKLKR
Ninja
NobleKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPl
Orc Paragon
PaladinKNoKR
Psion
Psychic Rogue
Psychic Warrior
Ranger
Rogue
SamuraiKHKNo
Savant
Scout
Sha'ir
Shadowcaster
Shaman
Shugenja
Sohei
Sorcerer
SoulbornKAKPl
SoulknifeAHKPs
Spelltheif
Spirit Shaman
Swashbuckler
Swordsage
Tiefling Paragon
Totemist
TruenamerKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPlPOTS
Warblade
Warlock
Warmage
Warrior
Wilder
Wizard
Wu Jen
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 12:39:00 AM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2011, 12:55:47 PM »

Classes in Tier 6

Divine Mind (before Mind's Eye updates):
Why its Defunct:
  • worst 'progression' and 'list' in the game.
  • Epic spells 10 levels too late is laughable, like crossing the finish line years after the race was over.
  • The auras are too small too early. Party formations make you a lovely AoE target.
  • Due to your sorry progression, you can't PrC to a 3.5 class without losing 6th level powers
Dead Levels: 2, 16
Progressions: a power known/2 levels starting at 6 (with 1 at 5), Maximum power cap every 3 starting at 5, tiny amount of PP (with conflicting text for levels 1-4)
Class Features: Mantle+5'Aura+Wild Talent, 10', divine grace, 15', Mantle, 20', Change Aura(standard action), 25', 2nd aura, 30', 3rd mantle, 35', change aura(move action), 40', 45', Change aura(swift action), 50', 3rd aura



Truenamer
Why its Defunct:
  • WotC just discovered the best flavor in the game. "Quick let's screw up the mechanics!" They said to one another.
  • The main problems are with the mechanics of truenaming. There is no reason for the Law of Sequence to exist. It's like demanding Sorcerers may not spam fireball (You can't cast that! The fireball from last turn is still burning!)
  • The Truenaming check for items and creatures should NOT be x2 CL or CR. Where you succeeded at level 1, you will fail at level 20.
  • Can do some fairly neat things, but its simply not worth the effort. If you need to abuse polymorph or an item familiar to function, well, that's a problem.
  • You have some awesomely fluffed PrC options. Too bad you will still suck when you take them.
Dead levels: 3,4,5,11,12,16,18,19.
Progression: A Lexicon of the Evolving Mind every level, one of the Craft Tool every 4 starting at 7 (but 1 at 4), one of the Perfected Map every 4 starting at 8
Class Features: Known personal truename, knowledge focus, truename research, Knowledge focus, Bonus recitation feat, see the named 1/day, knowledge focus, sending, knoweldge focus, bonus recitation feat, speak unto the masses, say my name and I am there



Samurai (without Imperious Command)
Why its Defunct:
  • The best part is not being this class - falling and being a Ronin is this class's best schtick.
  • Code of Conducts are bad. Except this class is so bad, breaking the CoC is actually good.
  • Decent class skills - except you probably are dumping int to intimidate or smite and damage with your sucky weapons.
  • Class features that act as feats are not psy-ref'able. Even then your improved and greater TWF (for sucky weapons) comes too late anyways.
PrC's:
Exotic Weapon Master: 1 level gets the Exotic Blow ability, which is very solid PA damage.
Ronin: Mentioned earlier.
Kensai: The Samurai is one of the few classes with all Kensai class skills, and the oath of service meshes well with the samurai's vow.  It's not THAT exciting, but it is a very flavorful class, and choosing your own weapon enhancements is a lot of fun.
Knight Protector: This will make you more of a tank, though none of the features are awesome (as a sidenote, you gain Tower Shield proficiency without knowing any other shields!)
Knight of the Iron Glacier (FB): C'mon.  It already requires EWP: Bastard Sword, and you KNOW you want to ride a giant rhinoceros!
Bloodstorm Blade (TOB): First, it requires MCing into warblade, which is better than samurai.  Second, it will let you change your EWP: Bastard Sword to any other weapon - and the same should apply to your other subpar feats that specify only a bastard sword and short sword.  Besides, throwing weapons as a full melee attack is just awesome. -Akalsaris
Dead Levels: 4, 9, 13, 15, 18, 19
Class Features: Diasho Proficiency, Two Swords as One, Kiai Smite, Iaigusu Master, Staredown, Kiai Smite, Improved Initiative, Mass Staredown, Improved Two Swords as One, Kiai Smite, Improved Staredown, Greater Two Swords as One, Kiai Smite, Frightful Presence



Warrior:
Why its Defunct:
  • Its just a chasis with full BAB
  • Allows you to fake continuing as an ex-paladin (but not with the awesome that are Blackgaurds)



Aristocrat:
Why its Defunct:
  • The highest starting gold (4d8x10 gp) doesn't matter if you start higher than level 1
  • Diplomancy in an NPC class-only campaign is like being the prettiest patient at the full-body, severe burn ward



Commoner:
Why its Defunct:
  • It is supposed to be; peasants aren't supposed to be awesome.
  • Too bad for WotC we take the silly commoner only Chicken-infested flaw seriously. Be purple and name yourself Gonzo.
  • Survivor at level 2? *Shrug*
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:25:02 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2011, 12:55:57 PM »

Classes in Tier 5a

Paladin
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • You're supposed to off tank thanks to your healings and charge in on your mount for the smite. Too bad your MAD to do so, assuming you hit. Its better to be the mount.
  • The detect evil is worth it for nonBBEGs (who are undetectable). Not worth the aura of good bulls-eye
  • Lay on hands isn't effective healing, but its free. The real boost that level is the saves boost.
  • The aura is too situational with small range. It almost makes disease immunity look useful
  • You can pull significantly late Divine feat use and DMM shenanigans on your pansy spells. Feat tax or MAD.
  • Your default mount is a retarded animal companion. You can supermount it, but its not optimal to use the paladin class to even do that.
  • Your late SLAs are too situational and too sparse anyways. Wouldn't be the level if it were at will.
Dead levels:7, 8, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19.
Progression: +1 smite/day per multiple of 5, 1 remove disease/week per multiple of 5, half caster progression starting at 4, mount progression by table and boost every 5 after that.
Class Features: Aura of good+detect evil+smite evil 1/day, Divine grace+lay on hands, Aura of courage+divine health, Turn undead, special mount


Magewright
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Has 10 5th level spells if you have an Int of 30.
  • Spell mastery each time a new slot is up is enough for the gems like CoP, animate dead, and dispel magic
  • No support, tiny list, and no class features? I'd rather have one less spell level, a mount, and some class features on a decent chassis.
Dead levels:All but 1 and multiples of 4.
Progression: none besides the spell mastery.
Class Features:none besides the spell mastery


Fighter
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Anyone can get feats. They are cheap. See my prereq handbook for the free feat diet.
  • Fighter only feats really aren't that cool, even without comparing to spells available at a similar level. Your better off whoring more general combat feats.
Dead levels:3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19.
Progression: fighter feat every even level
Class Features:fighter feat at one


Healer
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Clerics still heal better than you, without focusing on it.
  • You're supposed to heal with your spells right? Too bad you have a limited list rather than "all conjuration(healing) spells." If you didn't have revivify a psion would heal better than you.
  • Supplimentary out of combat healing isn't worth a level and you still have to blow metamagics to not get close for all your healing
  • As paladin, your late SLAs are less situational but too sparse. Wouldn't be the level if it were at will, but atleast level 20 doesn't have to pay the costs.
  • Your unicorn companion is a weak version of the Special Mount ability
Dead levels:11,12,14,16,17,18,19.
Progression: full casting
Class Features: healing hands, skill focus(heal), cleanse paralysis, cleanse disease, cleanse fear, cleanse poison, effortless healing, unicorn companion, cleanse blindness, cleanse spirit, cleanse petrification, new limb, new life


Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements)
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • You can now spam astral contructs. Too bad its got nerfed so much
  • As before but you have a first level power. I would say choose wisely, but its even worse than the regular feat.
  • you can pull the divine feat tricks a paladin can and at the same level. Too bad you don't cast spells for DMM.
Dead levels: 2, 16.
Progression: +5' aura every other level after.
Class Features:mantle+hidden talent+Entropic ally, aura 5', stygian path, 2nd mantle, change aura(standard action), 2nd aura, 3rd mantle, change aura(move action), change aura(standard action), 3rd aura


Mlar
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • You can make things. Major creation is nice.
  • Poisons anyone?
Dead levels: all.
Progression: 3/4 casting
Class Features:can only cast mending+prestidigation (to objects' color or decoration), magic weapon, make whole, stone shape, minor creation, fabricate, major creation


Soulborn
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • You can smite if you are MAD, but you are still a big target
  • These are very niche. Immunity to strength penalties is the best because evil does it better
  • You get your chakras late and you have a crappy list. Welcome to being a soulborn.
  • Sharing your immunity is cool but you can only do one at a time so its rarely useful.
  • Timeless body is later than the monks and suffers from the same problem.
Dead levels: 3, 6, 12, 16.
Progression: +1smite/day every multiple of 5,
Class Features: aura+1/day smite, incarnum defense, bonus feat, bonus feat, chakra binds (crown, feet, hands), bonus feat, share incarnum defense 1/day, bonus feat, share incarnum defense 2/day, chakra binds (arms, brow, shoulders), share incarnum defense 3/day, chakra binds (throat, wrist), Timeless body


Eidolon
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Free multiclassing is cool if you don't build correctly to allow for dips but need feats
  • none of the ghost feats are worth it except in specific circumstances: fade for savage progression 1 or melee ghosts might want corrupting and enervating touch. Ghost Glide is suboptimal but flavorful
Dead levels:3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19.
Progression: [ghost] feats as fighter
Class Features: ghost feat


Lurk
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Monk
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Not sure what WotC thought the monk's role should be besides 'awesome'. I mean look at all those progressions with no dead levels! Rolls Eyes
  • The chasis is wrong for a meleer. You don't have full BAB, so don't expect to hit anything without severe optimization.
  • Your unarmed damage isn't great thanks to exotic weapons, but you can go king of smack if you severely optimize. Too bad you still won't hit
  • Dinky AC bonus for your MAD, naked self. Like the above, everyone can have this without the t5 ickiness thanks to a monks belt. It's like core was trying to invalidate the monk class.
  • Your speed is an enhancement bonus, so everyone and their mother can do better without wasting precious ECL. What are you going to do with it anyways? Note that spring attack is a trap.
  • Little bonuses here and there aren't class features. They are feats. You have paladin-like immunity to diseases, so now you can't become a lycanthrope. Awesome.
  • You can heal yourself some and slow fall. Its a good thing you spent levels on this rather than petty cash!
  • Spell Resistance that you can't turn off is cool. Nothing like missing that heal or buff!
  • Your mild maneuverability of improved evasion, 1/day dimension door, and level rounds/day etherealness are what casters got a long time ago, assuming they even care to blow the money on the ring. Usually, it isn't that important.
  • Poison immunity, and tongues come too late and don't get me started on a fort save ability that doesn't work on the cool types anyways.
  • Abusing aging penalties comes too late to be useful and being an outsider with sucky DR is not a capstone, no matter what WotC thinks.
Dead levels:none.
Progression: Flurry of Blows +1 hit per level except 13&17, Unarmed Damage die bump every multiple of 4, +1AC every multiple of 5, +10Speed Bonus every multiple of 3,
Class Features: Bonus feat+flurry of blows+unarmed strike, Bonus feat+evasion, Still mind, Ki strike (magic)+slow fall 20', Purity of body, Bonus feat+slow fall 30', Wholeness of body, Slow fall 40', Improved evasion, Ki strike (lawful)+slow fall 50', Diamond body+greater flurry, Abundant step+slow fall 60', Diamond soul, Slow fall 70', Quivering palm, Ki strike (adamantine)+slow fall 80', Timeless body+tongue of the sun and moon, Slow fall 90', Empty body, Perfect self+slow fall any distance


Samurai (with Imperious Command feat)
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Mass Staredown is mildly cool with Imperious Command.  Unfortunately, Zhentarium Fighter does it better (Swift Action, so you can still attack), and the Dread Pirate and Scarlet Corsair PrCs both provide far superior versions of this ability.
  • Samurai 10 with the Fearsome Armor enhancement (DoTU) and the Imperious Command feat can do the double intimidate 4 levels sooner than normal, and send foes cowering for 1 round first.  Of course, at that level a Zhentarim fighter with that armor can do a triple intimidate.
Dead levels: see above, though you might as well use the web enhancement while your at it.
Progression: see above
Class Features: see above


Ninja
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Same problems as the monk on AC bonus. Doesn't even stack without optimization
  • Sudden strike is the retarded cousin of sneak attack. See the rogue entry and then try to imagine it sucking more.
  • Ki is so flavorful. Quick make it suck! Trapfinding has the same problems rogues face
  • The ghost abilities are pretty cool, I admit. Its the real thing that makes you a ninja. Abuse it before your niche fades.
  • Great leap doesn't worth with a medium load and your spider climb isn't even really a spider climb.
  • The Ghost Mind ability can be bypassed so easily, its worthless
  • Ghost sight is only 15 levels too late compared to a warlock. That's not much, is it?
Dead levels:none. You are awesome like the monk. Right?
Progression: +1AC every multiple of 5, +1d6 sudden strike every odd level including level 1, +2 acrobatics every multiple of 6
Class Features: trapfinding+ki power, ghost step(invisible), poison use, great leap, ki dodge, speed climb, ghost strike, improved poison use, ghost step (ethereal), evasion, ghost mind, ghost sight, greater ki dodge, ghost walk


Battledancer
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • If the ninja is the inbred monk rogue lovechild, the battledancer is the severly inbred monk plus monk then given away to the circus child.
  • Move action Su when threatened give +4 vs fear for 5+cha. Like that helps?
  • Congratulations, your speed boost isn't enhancement. Too bad you get less than the monk so it evens out.
  • No tumble restrictions. Okay that's good anti-melee stuff. And for the teleporting casters?
  • Dancer's Strikes involve blowing a standard action to gain it for only 5+cha rounds. Raise your hand if you like action penalties to be effective in combat! Don't get excited about that (any) either; you merely pick one unchanging type.
  • You can water walk three levels after the cleric has been doing it.
  • Pounce is cool. Too bad the barbarians did it ten levels ago.
  • An AC debuff is okay but this ability only matters if your allies are stupid enough to proc a lot of AoOs. Otherwise +4str or +4dex is better.
  • A fly speed is good. It competes well with those 9th level spells, huh?
  • +2d6 and crit confirm is again not a capstone.
Dead levels: 3, 7, 9, 13, 15, 19.
Progression: cha-based AC and unarmed damage as monk. But with full BAB!
Class Features: AC bonus+unarmed strike, battle dancer's performance, +10'ms, dance of the vexing snake, Dancer's strike(magic), dance of the floating step, +20'ms, Dance of the springing tiger, Dancer's strike(alignment), dance of the crushing python, 30'ms, dance of the soaring eagle, dancer's strike(any), dance of the death's embrace


Knight
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • Blow a swift action to hit harder assuming the opponent meets the criteria of being low CR. Snore.
  • Some people get hard ons reading about forcing agro. Its a will save. You might as well charm them, but atleast this ability isn't mind-affecting.
  • Reroll on fear assuming you are MAD. Meh
  • More must be low CR stuff. Its a dinky fear effect
  • Slipper mind, basically
  • Ex furiousity is cool but nothing new for the past however many levels.
Dead levels: 19.
Progression: Fighters challenge +1 every 6 after 1, shield block+1 every 9 after 2
Class Features: Fighters challenge +1+knight's challenge+knight's code, mounted combat+shield block+1, bullwark defense, armor mastery(medium)+test of mettle, bonus feat+vigilant defender, shield ally, call to battle, armor master(heavy), bonus feat, daunting challenge, improved shield ally, bonus feat, beyond loyalty, impetuous endurance, loyal beyond death


Swashbuckler
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Mariner
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Expert
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • You are the skill monkey version of a commoner
  • Choosing any 10 skills goes a long way if you chose the right ones. Craft? No. Iajitsu Focus? Yes please.
Dead levels:all.
Progression: none
Class Features: non


Soulknife
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
  • The base stats on a mind blade aren't great so don't pretend to have an awesome weapon. You don't.
  • Even at range (crap 30') don't pretend to do your extra damage since everyone loves being immune to mind-affecting
  • The quick draw would be good, except you can only throw the mind blade twice in a round until level 17
  • Non crappy shapes still require EWP and are at -1 enhancement bonus. Awesome
  • Enhancing your crappy weapon would be cool if you couldn't just by the same thing...
  • The feats are fine. Better than the whirlwind silliness anyways.
  • Int damage is cool, but its too little too late. First level casters can do that.
Dead levels:none.
Progression: +1 mind blade every 4 levels
Class Features: mind blade+WF+Wild Talent, Throw Mind Blade, Psychic Strike +1d8, Freedraw+Shade Mind Blade, Mind Blade Enhancement +1+Speed of Thought, Psychic Strike +2d8, Bladewind+GWF, Mind blade enhancement +2, Psychic Strike +3d8, Knife to the Soul, Mind Blade Enhancement +3, Psychic strike +4d8, Multiple Throw, Mind Blade Enhancement +4, Psychic Strike +5d8


Noble
Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 11:44:16 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2011, 12:56:04 PM »

Classes in Tier 5b

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:16:29 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2011, 12:56:10 PM »

Classes in Tier 4a

Totemist
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Jester
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Barbarian
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Savant
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Adept
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Marshal
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Ranger
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Rogue
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Warlock
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant)
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Dragonfire Adept
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Spellthief
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Master
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Warmage
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Scout
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Dragon Shaman
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Hexblade
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Sohei
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Nightstalker
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Montebank
Why it Can Only Do its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:25:49 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2011, 12:56:18 PM »

Classes in Tier 4b

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:19:05 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 12:56:24 PM »

Classes in Tier 3a

Factotum
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Wilder
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Beguiler
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Warblade
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Dread Necromancer
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Shugenja
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Swordsage
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Binder
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Ranger (Wildshape variant)
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Ardent
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Crusader
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Bard
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Incarnate
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Psychic Warrior
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Shadowcaster
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Duskblade
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Psychic Rogue
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 06:56:31 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2011, 12:56:36 PM »

Classes in Tier 3b

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:19:22 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2011, 12:56:42 PM »

Classes in Tier 2a

Psion
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Spirit Shaman
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Sha'ir
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Sorcerer
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Death Master
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Favored Soul
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Wu Jen
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Binder (with Online Vestiges)
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Mystic
Why it's So Powerful:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,

Spirit Shaman
Why it's So Powerful:
    Before you disagree with the placement, I'll admit that this is my favorite class period.
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:[/list]
Class Features: ,
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 06:58:29 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2011, 12:56:52 PM »

Classes in Tier 2b

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:19:37 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2011, 12:57:02 PM »

Classes in Tier 1a

"Erudite" variant Psion (with Spell to Power ACF)
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Archivist
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Wizard
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Druid
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Cleric
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,


Artificer
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
Dead levels: ,.
Progression:
Class Features: ,
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 06:59:02 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
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Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2011, 12:57:12 PM »

Classes in Tier 1b

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:20:05 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
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PlzBreakMyCampaign
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Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2011, 12:57:41 PM »

Class Dip Length

What makes a dip? A dip is taking a few levels in another class in order to grab a bonus feat or other useful class feature before continuing to your main classes.

What stops a dip? Taking a few levels stops being a dip when a character can't get anything out of each level is simply 'waiting' for a class feature further down the line. This is what single-classed characters do, especially in wait of the best abilities from 17-20.

Aberrant Paragon: 1 if cleric, sorc, favored soul, psychic warrior, wilder, or warlock
Aristocrat: 0, or 1 if playing ECL1 campaign where starting gold REALLY matters
Adept:
Archivist:
Ardent:
Artificer:
Barbarian:
Bard:
Battledancer: 1
Beguiler:
Binder:
Cleric:
Commoner: 0 or 1 if you want infinite chickens for the lulz
Crusader:
Dargonfire Adept:
Death Master:
Divine Mind: 1
Dragon Shaman:
Dread Necromancer:
Drow Paragon:
Druid:
Duskblade:
Dwarf Paragon:
Eidolon: 2
Eidoloncer: 1
Elf Paragon:
Erudite:
Expert:
Factotoum:
Favored Soul:
Fighter: 2 or 4 with optimization, non-dungeoncrasher variant of course.
Gnome Paragon:
Half-Dragon Paragon:
Half-Elf Paragon:
Half-Orc Paragon:
Halfling Paragon:
Healer: 0 or 2 if you are cha-focused.
Hexblade:
Human Paragon:
Incarnate:
Jester:
Knight: 0 or 2 with optimization. 3 if maneuvers are banned.
Kobold Paragon:
Lurk:
Mariner:
Marshall:
Master:
Mlar: 0. Falls behind sorc progression after level 4.
Monk: 2
Montebank:
Mystic:
Ninja: 0 or 1 with optimization. 2 in an ECL2 campaign (whoever plays that?)
Noble:
Orc Paragon:
Paladin: 2, or 3 with optimization. Up to 5 for sub-par supermounts.
Psion:
Psychic Rogue:
Psychic Warrior:
Ranger:
Rogue:
Samurai: 0 or 3 if you have high charisma and like sub-par weapons
Savant:
Scout:
Sha'ir:
Shadowcaster:
Shugenja:
Sohei:
Sorcerer:
Soulborn: 0 really, but 3 with optimization
Soulknife:
Spelltheif:
Spirit Shaman:
Swashbuckler:
Swordsage:
Tiefling Paragon:
Totemist:
Truenamer: 0 or 1 with optimization
Warblade:
Warlock:
Warmage:
Warrior: 0
Wilder:
Wizard:
Wu Jen:
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 12:03:53 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2011, 01:02:27 PM »

That should be all I need. Please be patient. I decided it was a bit too much to try to finish and post all at once - both in terms of organization and formatting. Expect information to slowly piddle in over today. I also expect there to be some copy-paste errors so if warblade shows up in tier one or something just point it out sans fanfare.

If there is something you want me to add, I'll be happy to. I will probably drastically shorten it, though. Wink
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:20:56 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
Gavinfoxx
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« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2011, 02:05:24 PM »

Doesn't the Wild Shape, Arcane Hunter, Mystic, Sword of the Arcane Order, Shooting Star Ranger get to Tier 1, for levels 1-10 at least?
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PlzBreakMyCampaign
Hong Kong
****
Posts: 1373


Immune to Critical Hits as a Fairness Elemental


« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2011, 02:22:56 PM »

Doesn't the Wild Shape, Arcane Hunter, Mystic, Sword of the Arcane Order, Shooting Star Ranger get to Tier 1, for levels 1-10 at least?
For those levels, compared to an unoptimized tier 1? Yes. But the tiers are compared 1-20 and with the same level of optimization.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2011, 03:54:36 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign » Logged

Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r
Garryl
Hong Kong
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Posts: 1240


« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2011, 02:40:38 PM »

You have Wilder listed in both T2 and T3.  Some of your book notations are inconsistent (Beguiler is PH2, but Duskblade is PHB2). Is DMC supposed to be Dragon Compendium? The closing bracket for Knight is missing.

You're also missing the Kobold Paragon and Psychic Rogue in your list. They're both web only (Kobold Paragon is a web enhancement for RotD, Psy Rogue is a Mind's Eye article).

In case you want them, here are the links for the classes available online:
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A Guide to Free D&D - A resource of free, official D&D resources on the web.
General listing of my homebrew.
Links to things I've worked on
Idiot Crusader, refreshing maneuvers for free every round.
The Opposed Checks Handbook - Under construction.
Adaptations Handbook - Under construction.
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