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Author Topic: It's Time To Duel  (Read 6438 times)
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Bastian
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« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2011, 09:52:09 PM »

Is it just me or is this "Sir Giacomo" a rather lackluster attempt to imitate the original Giacomo. Especially considering how long the actually Giacomo has been inactive and the posts just don't feel like the original Giacomo's work (the style just seems different).
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Solo
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zhangzidong
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2011, 09:54:40 PM »

Yes, he does seem to lack a certain je ne sais quoi.
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« Reply #62 on: April 18, 2011, 10:18:05 PM »

Is it just me or is this "Sir Giacomo" a rather lackluster attempt to imitate the original Giacomo. Especially considering how long the actually Giacomo has been inactive and the posts just don't feel like the original Giacomo's work (the style just seems different).
Yes, he does seem to lack a certain je ne sais quoi.


Thank Tzeentch. The real one wouldn't have hesitated to port his "build" over here to the Handbooks section.


Then again, he is at least partially aware of our "fondness" of his posts/builds. I doubt he would really sign up for a forum that openly loathes the idea of a Monk trying to be a Mage Slayer.
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CrimsonDeath
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« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2011, 03:09:00 AM »

je ne sais quoi.
What does that mean?
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Garryl
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« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2011, 03:17:43 AM »

je ne sais quoi.
What does that mean?

Literally, "I don't know what," although a more accurate translation would be "a certain something" in this case.
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« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2011, 03:20:14 AM »

je ne sais quoi.
What does that mean?
Literally, "I don't know what."  Google is your friend.

That said, you need to get out more.  Even I had a basic understanding of what he was saying without taking a single French lesson.

EDIT: Epic Duelist'd
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CrimsonDeath
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« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2011, 02:55:52 PM »

Well, there goes my chance of getting an Abbot & Costello-style conversation going...
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Caelic
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« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2011, 10:12:59 PM »

Well, there goes my chance of getting an Abbot & Costello-style conversation going...


...THIRD BASE!
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« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2011, 10:18:07 PM »

Well, there goes my chance of getting an Abbot & Costello-style conversation going...


...THIRD BASE!
You do realize There Are No Girls On The Internet, right?

I mean, this paradigm works for ME, but...
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« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2011, 11:19:00 PM »

Quote
Yeah, when is the truenamer handbook finished?
When the king returns.

did i go somewhere? so get finnishing...
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« Reply #70 on: April 20, 2011, 03:26:51 PM »

Class progression: Monk6/Fighter/Paladin2/Duelist10


I refuse to acknowledge how powerful your build is for it is lvl 18. I mean who leaves their characters at 18?
 Wink
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Sir Giacomo
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« Reply #71 on: April 20, 2011, 04:56:21 PM »

A certain je ne sais quoi indeed …  Wink

An AC of 50 at level 20 isn't going to do much vs a Balor who locks you down via Blasphemy. A Dragon who scares you away via a Fear aura or uses his 15th level sorcerer spellcasting attack you as if you were flatfooted (Improved Invisibility) and can detect you despite your Hide score with his Blindsense, or a Tarrasque which hits you on anything but a one due to its attack bonus of +57...

AC aside, there's no way to force an enemy to attack you so even if you're hittable, the enemy could still walk around you and attack your friends while you are unable to stop him.

You tell me, Giacomo, what does this build contribute in a party?

Oh Solo, you underestimate your own maxing powers!
The build you posted can take on quite well the challenges you mentioned and thus is entirely playable and fun!
First, though, you need to get your math right. Your build does not have AC 57, but AC 67.
Second, you forgot to include the stat gains for DEX (so, likely +10 and not +8) and strangely enough for a ridiculing AC optimization just took +5 Armor bonus bracers, not the +8 maximum – somewhat unusual for a level 20 character.  So your build yields a solid AC 72. In core.

Of course such an AC removes your build from usual melee concerns from the Balor and the Dragon which at level 15 sorcerer casting likely is a wyrm blue dragon (CR 23) or some such.
A blasphemy (provided a balor faced by a bunch of adventurers is so stupid as to waste an action on this before ascertaining their power) when no bard is in the group to buff with inspire heroics greatness can be taken care of with protections from sonic attacks – I leave it to your imagination as to what kind of protection for a level 20 character that can be.
Similarly, the dragon will certainly not scare away your build via fear aura (remember your paladin boosts to saves that you praised? They stack with the monk’s still mind and other typical save enhancers of level 20 characters). You could dare me to go through the math of it with you, but I caution you: do not go that road again. You lost so far every discussion with me that involved numerical evidence.
It also goes without saying that a dragon’s blindsense limited to 60ft will detect absolutely nothing against a foe that can charge from hiding from much further away. Furthermore, its spellcasting arsenal limited to level 1-7 spells are fairly laughable against a level 20 character with such saves and stealth skills (and own wbl with the UMD you mentioned to fill the remaining spell vulnerarbilities besides; the ability to turn invisible hardly matters at all at these levels when see invisibility can be obtained so easily with items). Also, its otherwise formidable breath weapon will not amount to much vs the monk’s evasion (which it may find out only after having wasting a standard action or two).
Something also tells me that the initiative modifier of your build can be somewhere in the low +20s without breaking sweat, beyond the modifiers of the challenges you listed.  Combined with stealth this yields a surprise round attack, plus full attack, for a total of 10 (including two stuns, remember a 1 rolled is a 1 rolled…). This can add up to some damage, even if this finesse-daring-swo…er fist/kama-man’s forte is more on the defense side.
Walking around this monk/duelist build of yours such monsters may try … but they do so at their peril, leaving an undefeated foe aside (and losing at least a move action besides).
Finally, the tarrasque. Now that’s a monster which is a whole can of worms as far as I am concerned. Possibly quite easy when players recite its MM entry by heart and then look as to what rules gaps to exploit. But in actual play without metagaming? A headache for all kinds of core builds. At least your monk/duelist build with AC 72 and spring attack can annoy it long enough for the rest of the group to come up with a good strategy.  Smile

Altogether, a robust double-fail on your side, Solo – the first for failing to do a correct parody and the second for showing a profound lack of knowledge of the true power of your build following (albeit only part) of my famous monk guide …
Congratulations!  Clap

- Giacomo
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 06:44:44 AM by Sir Giacomo » Logged
Solo
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zhangzidong
« Reply #72 on: April 20, 2011, 05:01:08 PM »

Thank you for the most recent sample. I now have a sufficiently large knowledge base of your posting style.

You do lack a certain thing, but I know what it is now.
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« Reply #73 on: April 20, 2011, 05:26:17 PM »

Thank you for the most recent sample. I now have a sufficiently large knowledge base of your posting style.

You do lack a certain thing, but I know what it is now.

What do you think he's missing or lacks? I haven't read the old Giacomo posts on giantitp, so I don't know for sure...
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Suzerain
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« Reply #74 on: April 20, 2011, 05:39:07 PM »

Thank you for the most recent sample. I now have a sufficiently large knowledge base of your posting style.

You do lack a certain thing, but I know what it is now.

What do you think he's missing or lacks? I haven't read the old Giacomo posts on giantitp, so I don't know for sure...

I think he means brains... but don't mind me. I'm enjoying my popcorn.
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Solo
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zhangzidong
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2011, 05:55:02 PM »

Why, Giacomo's style of course! Why did you think I meant intelligence?

Anyways, there's a few things that seem off.

Quote
First, though, you need to get your math right. Your build does not have AC 57, but AC 67.
Second, you forgot to include the stat gains for DEX (so, likely +10 and not +8) and strangely enough for a ridiculing AC optimization just took +5 Armor bonus bracers, not the +8 maximum – somewhat unusual for a level 20 character.  So your build yields a solid AC 72. In core.
Giacomo, in his monk thread, made detailed calculations of his monk's AB, AC and etc. He showed himself willing to demonstrate how other posters who criticized him were wrong by running numbers against their numbers. This block is just a bunch of assertions with no calculation to back it up.

Not solid evidence, but it's a little different from what I remember.

Quote
Of course such an AC removes your build from usual melee concerns from the Balor and the Dragon which at level 15 sorcerer casting likely is a wyrm blue dragon (CR 23) or some such.
Now, here's another odd thing. Giacomo is well versed in core (or at least considers himself to be) so surely he would know that an Ancient Brass Dragon is a CR 20 monster that casts as a 15th level sorcerer. It's one of the results in the d20 SRD's monster search.

Again, this is could be explained in other ways, such as carelessness, but it doesn't make me feel confident in the poster's identity.

Quote
You could dare me to go through the math of it with you, but I caution you: do not go that road again. You lost so far every discussion with me that involved numerical evidence.
I don't think Giacomo would ever make such a statement, as every time we ran into each other previously, the argument went on until the thread got locked.

I suppose he might have considered himself the victor, but honestly it'd take a pretty vain person to think he won just because his opponent was unable to respond due to thread lockage. Giacomo might have thought himself to have had the stronger position in the argument, but it's pretty obvious that winning a war is not the same thing as having won a war. (See Nazis vs Russia for details)

Quote
A blasphemy (provided a balor faced by a bunch of adventurers is so stupid as to waste an action on this before ascertaining their power) when no bard is in the group to buff with inspire heroics can be taken care of with protections from sonic attacks – I leave it to your imagination as to what kind of protection for a level 20 character that can be.
In his monk guide, Giacomo pointed out the specific items his monk would have to counter various challenges. The fact that he does not include anything of the sort this time strikes me as unusual. Even a simple mention of earplugs would have been nice.

The poster also thinks a Balor would be stupid to use Blasphemy before ascertaining the enemy's power. However, Blasphemy can in fact be used to determine what level the enemy is, as its effects are based off of the victim's hit dice. By observing its effects on the targets, an estimation of their levels can be made. Giacomo has proven himself familiar with Blasphemy in the past, so there is really no excuse for this statement.

Quote
It also goes without saying that a dragon’s blindsense limited to 60ft will detect absolutely nothing against a foe that can charge from hiding from much further away. Furthermore, its spellcasting arsenal limited to level 1-7 spells are fairly laughable against a level 20 character with such saves and stealth skills (and own wbl with the UMD you mentioned to fill the remaining spell vulnerarbilities besides; the ability to turn invisible hardly matters at all at these levels when see invisibility can be obtained so easily with items).
Giacomo is familiar with no-save spells from 1-7 that would stand a good chance of being problematic for a level 20 melee character, such as Solid Fog, Sleet Storm, Wall of Force, Power Word Blind, Contingency, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion, Reverse Gravity, Grasping Hand, and so on.

Quote
Finally, the tarrasque. Now that’s a monster which is a whole can of worms as far as I am concerned. Possibly quite easy when players recite its MM entry by heart and then look as to what rules gaps to exploit. But in actual play without metagaming? A headache for all kinds of core builds.
I'm pretty sure Giacomo knows of the Reverse Gravity + Gate trick, and the closely related Time Stop + PAO ground into air + Gate trick, both of which send the Tarrasque to another plane of existence, which makes this statement baffling.

Quote
Altogether, a robust double-fail on your side, Solo – the first for failing to do a correct parody and the second for showing a profound lack of knowledge of the true power of your build following (albeit only part) of my famous monk guide …
Out of everything in that post, this is what makes me doubt him the most. Giacomo tended to be good natured (or at least he pretended to be) and could be quite passive aggressive, but never openly mocked or insulted people. Perhaps this was for fear of the moderators at GitP, but he behaved the same way when I had a run in with him on Gleemax. He would never say something like this.

Now, it's possible that I am wrong. Giacomo could have grown lazy, forgotten the rules of the game, and become a troll, but his personality remained consistent enough through the years I was on GitP that I'd doubt it.

In conclusion, sir, I say that it is you who fails, for you fail at pretending to be Giacomo.

-Solo




« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:05:37 PM by Solo » Logged


"I am the Black Mage! I cast the spells that makes the peoples fall down!"

The Legend RPG, which I worked on and encourage you to read.
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« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2011, 06:04:46 PM »

Why, Giacomo's style of course! Why did you think I meant intelligence?

Anyways, there's a few things that seem off.

Quote
First, though, you need to get your math right. Your build does not have AC 57, but AC 67.
Second, you forgot to include the stat gains for DEX (so, likely +10 and not +8) and strangely enough for a ridiculing AC optimization just took +5 Armor bonus bracers, not the +8 maximum – somewhat unusual for a level 20 character.  So your build yields a solid AC 72. In core.
Giacomo, in his monk thread, made detailed calculations of his monk's AB, AC and etc. He showed himself willing to demonstrate how other posters who criticized him were wrong by running numbers against their numbers. This block is just a bunch of assertions with no calculation to back it up.

Not solid evidence, but it's a little different from what I remember.

And didn't have that kind of tone in his posts (sounds more like Tshern's words than Giacomo's, not to insult Tshern).

Quote
Quote
Of course such an AC removes your build from usual melee concerns from the Balor and the Dragon which at level 15 sorcerer casting likely is a wyrm blue dragon (CR 23) or some such.
Now, here's another odd thing. Giacomo is well versed in core (or at least considers himself to be) so surely he would know that an Ancient Brass Dragon is a CR 20 monster that casts as a 15th level sorcerer. It's one of the results in the d20 SRD's monster search.

Again, this is could be explained in other ways, such as carelessness, but it doesn't make me feel confident in the poster's identity.

And the real one would have acknowledged the spellcasting abilities, automatically assuming that your Saves and AC would protect you from spells such as Scorching Ray and Glitterdust.

Quote
Quote
You could dare me to go through the math of it with you, but I caution you: do not go that road again. You lost so far every discussion with me that involved numerical evidence.
I don't think Giacomo would ever make such a statement, as every time we ran into each other previously, the argument went on until the thread got locked.

I suppose he might have considered himself the victor, but honestly it'd take a pretty vain person to think he won just because his opponent was unable to respond due to thread lockage. Giacomo might have thought himself to have had the stronger position in the argument, but it's pretty obvious that winning a war is not the same thing as having won a war. (See Nazis vs Russia for details)

He was never that haughty. That style of insult points to someone... Sunic Flames being the first to come to mind.

Quote
Quote
A blasphemy (provided a balor faced by a bunch of adventurers is so stupid as to waste an action on this before ascertaining their power) when no bard is in the group to buff with inspire heroics can be taken care of with protections from sonic attacks – I leave it to your imagination as to what kind of protection for a level 20 character that can be.
In his monk guide, Giacomo pointed out the specific items his monk would have to counter various challenges. The fact that he does not include anything of the sort this time strikes me as unusual. Even a simple mention of earplugs would have been nice.

The poster also thinks a Balor would be stupid to use Blasphemy before ascertaining the enemy's power. However, Blasphemy can in fact be used to determine what level the enemy is, as its effects are based off of the victim's hit dice. By observing its effects on the targets, an estimation of their levels can be made. Giacomo has proven himself familiar with Blasphemy in the past, so there is really no excuse for this statement.

Correct.

Quote
Quote
It also goes without saying that a dragon’s blindsense limited to 60ft will detect absolutely nothing against a foe that can charge from hiding from much further away. Furthermore, its spellcasting arsenal limited to level 1-7 spells are fairly laughable against a level 20 character with such saves and stealth skills (and own wbl with the UMD you mentioned to fill the remaining spell vulnerarbilities besides; the ability to turn invisible hardly matters at all at these levels when see invisibility can be obtained so easily with items).
Giacomo is familiar with no-save spells from 1-7 that would stand a good chance of being problematic for his monk, such as Solid Fog, Sleet Storm, Wall of Force, Power Word Blind,

Giacomo also capitalized the WBL acronym, or used a different name entirely for it.

Quote
Quote
Finally, the tarrasque. Now that’s a monster which is a whole can of worms as far as I am concerned. Possibly quite easy when players recite its MM entry by heart and then look as to what rules gaps to exploit. But in actual play without metagaming? A headache for all kinds of core builds.
I'm pretty sure Giacomo knows of the Reverse Gravity + Gate trick, and the closely related Time Stop + PAO ground into air + Gate trick, both of which send the Tarrasque to another plane of existence, which makes this statement baffling.

No, he actually thought of Big T as something of an actual challenge for a character, then defied the entire thing by mentioning Abundant Step as an escape plan.

Quote
Quote
Altogether, a robust double-fail on your side, Solo – the first for failing to do a correct parody and the second for showing a profound lack of knowledge of the true power of your build following (albeit only part) of my famous monk guide … /quote]
Out of everything in that post, this is what makes me doubt him the most. Giacomo tended to be good natured (or at least he pretended to be) and could be quite passive aggressive, but never openly mocked or insulted people. Perhaps this was for fear of the moderators at GitP, but he behaved the same way when I had a run in with him on Gleemax. He would never say something like this.

Now, it's possible that I am wrong. Giacomo could have grown lazy, forgotten the rules of the game, and become a troll, but his personality remained consistent enough through the years I was on GitP that I'd doubt it.

In conclusion, sir, I say that it is you who fails, for you fail at pretending to be Giacomo.


The phrase Double-Fail confirms it. Sunic's got an alt (and yes, I am parodying Ael here).
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:19:13 PM by Sinfire Titan » Logged



Solo
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zhangzidong
« Reply #77 on: April 20, 2011, 06:16:00 PM »

That would explain why Giamoco never showed up in the Monk Help thread.
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Sunic_Flames
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« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2011, 06:27:38 PM »

He was never that haughty. That style of insult points to someone... Sunic Flames being the first to come to mind.

Hi Welcome and go fuck yourself with a rusty drill, while spinning on it and break dancing. I see exactly what you did there, however you of all people should know there are some lines that should never be crossed. Now, guess what you've done, hero.

And just as there are some lines that you should never cross, there are some lines that I should never cross either. The difference is, unlike you I respect those boundaries, so if I were to make an alt to troll this forum, it would not be one based on a Class Ael Failtard since as trollworthy as such an incident would be, it would also involve pretending to be an abomination, which is almost as offensive as actually being one.

So while you might very well be onto something that someone is impersonating Giacomo in some likely doomed attempt to make him look even worse than he naturally makes himself, any further attempts to state or imply that I am in any way responsible for this will result in my being responsible for reaching through your monitor, shoving my arm down your throat, and pulling your balls out only to make you eat them again.

Do I make myself clear?

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There is no greater contribution than Hi Welcome.

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Sunic may be more abrasive than sandpaper coated in chainsaws (not that its a bad thing, he really does know what he's talking about), but just posting in this thread without warning and telling him he's an asshole which, if you knew his past experiences on WotC and Paizo is flat-out uncalled for. Never mind the insults (which are clearly 4Chan-level childish). You say people like Sunic are the bane of the internet? Try looking at your own post and telling me you are better than him.

Here's a fun fact: You aren't. By a few leagues.
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« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2011, 06:45:25 PM »

Boiled that down for you guys.
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