http://brilliantgameologists.com
October 24, 2014, 09:25:01 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: These boards are now READ ONLY. We've started over! So don't try posting here. Go here www.minmaxboards.com
 
   Home   Help Search Members Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Help optimise a favored soul concept  (Read 3133 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« on: March 21, 2011, 01:17:02 AM »

Hi all,

I will hopefully be joining a new campaign in the upcoming future.

I had the ideas of making a social character, who is basically a political/theological activist and general sower of discord.

It is a Gestalt campaign (my first), and the DM is being quite strict with what materials he is allowing, and following the exact rules of Gestalt (can't take 2 PrCs at the same level, no dual progression PrCs, etc).

So... the idea I have for now is to play a Favored Soul (Strong CHA synergy, and decent divine casting)

My other class I was considering is rogue.

For the concept to be quite viable in combat, I am seriously considering taking the Malconvoker PrC, and the synergy to bluff just helps that decision. I'm not sure if I'll take 6 or 9 levels of Malconvoker.

The deities are setting specific, but the one I am most inclined to go is quite rogue-y (keeper of secrets god) and has favoured weapon of dagger.

I was thinking for the levels that I don’t take Malconvoker, I might fill with Master Thrower or maybe Spymaster (Something along those lines)

At this rate the build is looking something like this:

Rogue (3+)/Swashbuckler (1+)/Hexblade (0-3)/Malconvoker 1/Swordsage?(0-X)/Master Thrower(0-5)/Spymaster (0-7)//Favored Soul 7/Malconvoker (5-8)/Favored Soul (5-8)

Is this wise?

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

My thanks for any assistance.
Logged
boomslang
Monkey bussiness
*
Posts: 9


Email
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2011, 01:59:04 AM »

Does it actually have to be mechanically a favored soul?

Because favored souls are the weakest and most problematic divine class around. They have MAD inbuilt and lose the main benefit of being divine casters (automatically knowing their entire spell list at once). Adding rogue, with the dexterity and intelligence requirements that go along with it, and you need a halfway decent score in every stat except strength. Unless you have extremely generous ability scores, it's going to sabotage you. Also, the class features are just plain worthless. A cloistered cleric will have better spellcasting, and doesn't require a high charisma score, just benefits from one. Since the advice for either is to prestige out ASAP, using one over the other is up to you.

As for the rest, master thrower does not play to your strengths- your precision and strength damage are not going to be impressive enough to justify it. Replacing it with swordsage, since you're already planning to take a few levels, will raise your non-spellcasting abilities to the point they're viable on their own.


As an alternate suggestion, have you considered being an Archivist/Malconvoker//Factotum? It's intelligence based, but you can focus on charisma secondary without worrying.
Logged
JaronK
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 4039


« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2011, 02:05:22 AM »

It seems to me that what you want is a social character who's charisma based and does a lot of summoning.

If so, it seems to me that Favored Soul//Binder would fit your needs perfectly, binding Naberius (for social abilities) or Malphas (for stealth abilities) at low levels and eventually getting Zceryll (for crazy summoning).

JaronK
Logged

Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 03:35:31 AM »

Both of you have provided some great insight.

I neglected to mention, I am at this stage considering playing as either a human or a halfling. I can only select from LA: 0 races/templates.

Also, it's 32pt buy.

Boomslang: I guess it doesn't have to be a favored soul, but I do like the idea. I understand completely about MAD and the rogue levels though. Your suggestion of factotum was one I had not thought of... maybe a Factotum//Favored Soul/Malconvoker could be a good way to go.

JaronK: Binder is another class I had not really thought about when considering this character. Thank you for bringing it to mind.

I guess it has become evident that I really should forget about the favored weapon and combat side of things outside of casting spells... Maybe I was hoping for too much from the one character.

Oh, and by all means, keep the ideas coming. They have been of great help so far.
Logged
The Sach
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 22


« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 03:38:42 AM »

I was planning a similar(ish) build for a campaign I'm currently involved with.

Mine was much more combat focused, and used throwing axes instead of daggers.

Warblade(5+)/Bloodstorm Blade(4)/Master Thrower(5)/Other//Favoured Soul (20)

I was only using the favoured soul for the weapon feats and the ability to buff...

Hopefully this gives you ideas if you wanted a more combat heavy route, but I am afraid it won't help you if you want the character to be mainly social.
Logged
X-Codes
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 3941



« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2011, 04:04:07 AM »

Another option is Favored Soul//Bard.  More skill points built-in, and Bardic Knack can cover a low Intelligence score.

Favored Soul 4/Geomancer 4/Sacred Exorcist 1/Geomancer +1/Malconvoker 2/Geomancer +1/Malconvoker +2/Geomancer +1/Malconvoker +4//Bard 20

or

Favored Soul 4/Geomancer 4/Sacred Exorcist 1/Geomancer +2/Alternate Malconvoker and Geomancer 9//Bard 20

The former focuses on buffs and summoning with his Favored Soul levels, since his Spell Versatility ability isn't high enough to use Charisma for saves on his best spells.  Primary purpose here is using Geomancer + DMM to persist spells like Harmonize and Nixie's Grace on the Bard side, as well as using divine CL buffs with Bard spells (Bead of Karma, Ankh of Ascention, etc.).  CL can be further boosted using Words of Creation + Practiced Spellcaster on either side (potentially giving you a CL of 23 for your Favored Soul spells or 24 for your Bard spells).  Basically, you get CL 34/35 buffs all day long really easily.

The latter is a little more versatile in it's Favored Soul casting, since your Spell Versatility covers 9th-level spells.  That means it's Charisma for all saving throws, on top of everything mentioned above.  The tradeoff is fewer Malconvoker levels, primarily losing some abilities relating to Planar Binding.  Good abilities, sure, but the tradeoff is worthwhile.

Build only uses Charisma on it's own.  You can add in Strength and Constitution as you see fit.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 04:10:14 AM by X-Codes » Logged

Ras F
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 128


« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2011, 06:52:05 PM »

Dragonfire Adepts are an alternative option if you want combat viability and social prowess. There is also Charisma synergy. Lesser Aasimar's are LA+0, and grant Wisdom and Charisma bonuses.
Logged

Life gives you lemons? Then you better fucking learn Citromancy.
Tshern
Clown Prince of Crime
Organ Grinder
*****
Posts: 5726


Aistii valoa auttavasti

miikamartemo@hotmail.com
Email
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2011, 07:11:02 PM »

It seems to me that what you want is a social character who's charisma based and does a lot of summoning.

If so, it seems to me that Favored Soul//Binder would fit your needs perfectly, binding Naberius (for social abilities) or Malphas (for stealth abilities) at low levels and eventually getting Zceryll (for crazy summoning).

JaronK
To complement this idea, Haures is an excellent vestige to bind. Magnificent utility and defensive abilities. For example, unless I am totally mistaken, spells only check for validity when first cast, so one could enjoy the benefits of, say, Conviction and then activate Haures' Inaccessible mind ability. The downside is Haures is a high level vestige, so not available from the get-go.
Logged

Ja vuosia myöhemmin
kalvas kaksikko lattialla motellin tihrustelee,
kun sama keiju katossa leijailee.
Kyselevät: "Mikä päivä nyt on?
Tiedätkö sen?"
Kuiskaten laulaa keiju:
"Tämän elämän viimeinen."

Handy Links
Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2011, 10:22:37 PM »

There are some great ideas coming in!

As much as I love the binder idea (and am still considering it), I do believe the bard or factotum fill my needs a bit more. I do want this character to have the skills to back up the magic.

At this stage I’m thinking of something along these lines for the first 12 or so levels:

Favored Soul 12//Factotum(or Bard) 5/Mindbender 1/Malconvoker 6

After that, I’ll most likely continue Malconvoker, and then finish off the entry class or branch into something else (Exemplar for bluff, hexblade for curse, swordsage for a few maneuvers... who knows?)

Does anyone have some feats they can recommend to take? At this stage the essentials look like Spell focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Rapid Metamagic, and Rapid Spell.
Logged
vilenatas
Curious George
****
Posts: 307


Email
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2011, 10:41:12 PM »

I feel like the class features are stronger on the bard side than the favored soul side.  Why not go favored soul into malconvoker?

Favored Soul6/Malconvoker5/SacredExorcist1//Bard5/Mindbender1/Bard+6.  That way you can inspire courage on the monsters you summon.  Depending on the alignment you are choosing and if you get access to book of exalted deeds you could possible take words of creation for a large boost to your inspire courage.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 10:47:48 PM by vilenatas » Logged
Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2011, 11:45:29 PM »

The main reasons I was placing the Malconvoker on the Bard side was to not lose the spell progression on the favored soul side, and thus make sure I get the summon monster spells as soon as I can.

Bard is nice for the song to buff the minions, and probably my front runner at this stage.

I am also interested in the alternate class feature for the favoured soul from PHBII, where I can grant temporary hit points to a recipient of my spell. At 12th level, this bonus can be granted to all allies who benefit from a spell. Seeing most of my spells that aren’t a summon monster spell will be a buff spell, this could further help me buff the party.

Also, I don’t plan to go for exalted feats with this character. Their purpose is to breed contempt within cities and various organizations. I am going to start with true neutral at this stage, and maybe shift to a more chaotic alignment.

If I continue to level bard after level 12, I can end up with 13 bard levels by level 20. This is just shy of a +3 bonus to inspire courage, but maybe I could just aim for the +2 and then use the additional levels in a different PrC to gain some other advantage.
Logged
Widow
Bi-Curious George
****
Posts: 469


« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2011, 12:31:17 AM »

Although it is easier to view gestalt as two different sides, you really just take two classes at each level.  You could very easily change your:

Favored Soul 12//Factotum(or Bard) 5/Mindbender 1/Malconvoker 6
into
Favored soul 7/Malconvoker 5//Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Malconvoker 1/ Bard 5

No loss of caster level on the Favored soul because you take a level of favored soul and the first level of Malconvoker at level 7.  If you are not interested in full bard class abilites, a level of marshal would not hurt (assuming the DM is waving multiclassing xp penalties) for charisma to charisma skills again or charisma to overcome spell resistence rolls.  Also battle dancer from the dragon magazine compendium for cha to ac when not wearing armor.

If you want more spell casting you could go with sublime chord.

Favored soul 7/Malconvoker 3/Favored soul 2//Bard 5/Mindbender 1/Malconvoker 1/Bard 1/Marshal 1/ Battle dancer 1/Sublime Chord 1/Malconvoker 1

Divine metamagic is also always good if you are into all day buffs.
The posibilities are endless with gestalt and lots of books, just depends on what you want.
Logged
Ras F
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
***
Posts: 128


« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2011, 12:39:54 AM »

I am also interested in the alternate class feature for the favoured soul from PHBII, where I can grant temporary hit points to a recipient of my spell. At 12th level, this bonus can be granted to all allies who benefit from a spell. Seeing most of my spells that aren’t a summon monster spell will be a buff spell, this could further help me buff the party.

I will attest to this being quite good from personal experience. It allows you to pull double duty in combat. Temporary hit points are just as good as real ones as far as damage is concerned, and you can't over-heal them. You don't want to find yourself being a healbot in combat, it's a slippery slope. This ACF is good action efficiency.
Logged

Life gives you lemons? Then you better fucking learn Citromancy.
Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2011, 03:03:22 AM »

Good to know I am slowly getting on the right track.

Currently, I'm thinking of the following stats:

Str 10, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 16

This leaves me fairly unimpressive in combat, but I think that the party should be fine.

I guess I should mention the ideas the other players are coming up with, and see if that helps.

So far we have a Knight/Warblade (Defensive + White Raven Focus), a Warlock/Rogue (Dex + Blast Focused), a Ranger/Totemist (Ranged Focus), and a Fighter/Rogue (2-handed Power Attack Focus)

So no party face, leading me to want to be one. Also no spellcasters, which led me to choose to play one.

I think the emphasis on buffing from going Bard/Favored Soul, leading into summoning with Malconvoker will aid this party well, and be enough for me to contribute in combat, without needing the stats for it all.

Any more suggestions? What about for feats?
Logged
vilenatas
Curious George
****
Posts: 307


Email
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2011, 10:35:15 AM »

Favored Soul20//Bard1/Battledancer1/Bard7/Malconvoker1/SublimeChord2/Malconvoker+8

Gets you all the Favored Soul ACF's you want as well as 9th level arcane spells, full Malconvoker abilities and charisma to ac.

On the other hand since you say you want to buff, and you have two fighter type tanks already you might want to try to focus more on buffing instead of making more fighter types(what summoning really does).

Favored Soul20//Bard1/Paladin of Slaughter4/Bard+15 will give you a way to have full bard song(with vest of legend) as well as the ability to rebuke(for DMM on the favored soul side), charisma to saves, and if you only want favored soul acf's up to 12 you can then prestige out to grab some other buffing abilities or for some specific flavor that you want.

Alternatively you could just go favored soul20//bard1/pal4/warchanter10/bard+5.  The final song of warchanter combined with divine power to give you full bab would allow you to give your entire party full bab.  You could also use combine songs to have another bardic or warchanter song at the same time.  Still have charisma to saves/turning and all that to help buff yourself pre-combat so you can be more focused on your role of buffing everyone else once combat begins.
Logged
Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2011, 09:42:30 PM »

Well... my DM has ruled that he will not be allowing Dragon magazine material, or setting specific books as they contradict the setting that he is creating.

I have been contemplating the 20 level build... and am settling on something along these lines:

Favored Soul 12 / Malconvoker 3 / Favored Soul 5 // Bard 5 / Mindbender 1 / Malconvoker 6 / Exemplar 1 / Marshal 1 / Bard 6

This allows for me to have a strong spellcasting base, up until level 12, and then I try and boost my skills slightly, before rounding it off with more bard.

I was considering a bit more about the build, and am thinking that it might be feasible to use the last 6 bard levels to try and fit something else in... maybe some de-buffing via fear?

And once again... any help with feat selection would be great!
Logged
vilenatas
Curious George
****
Posts: 307


Email
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2011, 10:24:54 PM »

Spell Focus(Conjuration)/Augment Summoning

Then it depends on if you want buffing or summoning somewhat.  Since you aren't getting any way to use DMM rapid spell is probably not worth it, but maybe it would be worth it to see if you can get a rod of rapid spell.  You could grab invisible spell from cityscape so that you summons come in invisible.

Make sure that you get Magic Circle against Evil on your Favored Soul spells known so you can use the planar binding powers of Malconvoker.
Logged
Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2011, 10:31:24 PM »

I was already going to be saving for a rod of Extend Spell, I suppose rods might be the way to go with this character.

How about Versatile Spellcasting and/or Rapid Metamagic?

Also... would poisons be viable with this build perhaps? I could use a bound Pit Fiend to produce some powerful poison (to use or sell)

Could this be an alternative, or am I really hoping for too much out of the one character?

As for buffing, should I be looking at Chain Spell?

I am not adverse to acquiring turning to use DMM, but am unaware of a good source save for sacred exorcist, which I will not be taking because I am not going to be of good alignment...
Logged
Awesomo Moustachio
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 26


« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2011, 12:24:39 AM »

Although... if I am looking at the DMM route... and obviously using Rapid Spell and/or Persistant Spell maybe I could story in starting as a Favored Soul//Cloistered Cleric, and leave the church due to the fact I have direct link to my deity, and therefore don't need to sudy like a stuffy cleric.

Gets me turning, but delays bard, and therefore mindbender.

So...

Favored Soul 12/Malconvoker 3/Favored Soul 5//Cloistered Cleric 1 /Bard 5/Malconvoker 6 /Bard 3/Mindbender 1/Exemplar 1/Marshal 1/Bard 2

Thoughts?
Logged
nightshade
Ring-Tailed Lemur
**
Posts: 62



« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2011, 06:31:07 AM »

Just a few thoughts:
- Add sublime chord on the Bard side for better arcane casting, you can then advance it with Malconvoker, Mindbender whatever
- Sacred exorcist is a PrC that adds turn undead.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 06:33:12 AM by nightshade » Logged
Pages: 1 2 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!