Viable, magic-less character? What level does it stop being possible?

[snakeman830]

Don't all Undead automatically have darkvision?

Yup.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Oh, yeah.  If you could make your base race like 7/8s orc and 1/8th human you could then stick human heritage onto that whole mess after necropolitan (either by just taking the template at character creation, or via retraining after dropped to first level), and keep all your undead traits while being a humanoid(human). 

[JaronK]

Ah right, he does have darkvision.  Handy.  But tremorsense won't help for a mounted character.  I suppose nothing stops one from putting that antanae graft on his mount and him, though, just in case.  It's not like there was any shortage of money.

So, I'm thinking swap a stance for hearing the air, slap the antennae on both him and the mount for 60' tremorsense.  I notice there's even a graft that gives antimagic cone 3/day, but that's an Su ability so I guess that's out.  Too bad, that would be handy!

Either way, those changes should shore up his ability to deal with illusions (though he may find it useful to land once in a while when dealing with such things).

JaronK

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Yeah, but it makes you less useless underground, so there's that.

[JaronK]

True.

And hey, can I use a Cerebral Hood (Symbiote from FF)?  They have two Su abilities which I could simply not use (telepathy and a psychic blast), but give 60' Blindsight as an Ex ability.  You'd be at a general -1 Int but that's not really an issue.  The creature also gives immunity to a bunch of stuff undead are immune to anyway.

...this is going to be a REALLY freaky looking character.

JaronK

[MalcolmSprye]

A couple points:
Any spell that targets your mount and NOT you would seem to be game over.  IHS won't work then.  So... um, yah. (just from spells listed on the last page or two, a quickened TK trip on the mount will bring you down)

Second, while I'm in awe of you guys' knowledge and ingenuity, hasn't the topic changed a bit?
The title refers to "viable, magic-less character"s... not "viable if that character brings 17 different flavors of cheese, and no one else does".  If all the other characters bring that level... the GM will have to tune the encounters appropriately...

So the ultimate answer is "Yes, it's viable, as long as everyone else holds back."?

Sorry if I missed something... not much sleep.

[JaronK]

A couple points:
Any spell that targets your mount and NOT you would seem to be game over.  IHS won't work then.  So... um, yah. (just from spells listed on the last page or two, a quickened TK trip on the mount will bring you down)

Get an intelligent mount with IHS?  Remember, I did leave space for Leadership in there.  Your mount can be any appropriate mount for an effective level 17.  You're good to go here.  If you want, swap Leadership for the Dragon Cohort feat and get a Wyvernn (Advanced 4 HD to be big enough) Warblade 2/Unarmed Swordsage 2 as your mount or something.  Slap some grafts on him while you're at it.  Go nuts.

Second, while I'm in awe of you guys' knowledge and ingenuity, hasn't the topic changed a bit?
The title refers to "viable, magic-less character"s... not "viable if that character brings 17 different flavors of cheese, and no one else does".  If all the other characters bring that level... the GM will have to tune the encounters appropriately...

Except while he's using cheese, he's handicapping himself by choosing not to use magic.  Using magic would be far more optimization here, and thus not equivalent.

So the ultimate answer is "Yes, it's viable, as long as everyone else holds back."?

Sorry if I missed something... not much sleep.

He's holding himself back by choosing to ignore magic items... so yeah, others would need to hold back equivalently.

JaronK

[awaken DM golem]

Couldn't a Hulking Hurler build be rejiggered for this idea ??

[JaronK]

Couldn't a Hulking Hurler build be rejiggered for this idea ??

Should be, but you'd need to make sure to have a way to get his strength sufficiently high.

If it helps, there's a graft that makes you carry loads like a quadruped.  Half Minotaur obviously helps too.  And War Hulk, though you'd have no way to get your BAB up.

JaronK

[Lycanthromancer]

I believe there's a feat that ups your carrying capacity considerably, as well.

Also, have you considered a character that plays with shapesand?