katans
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« on: July 16, 2008, 11:12:04 AM » |
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Hi folks, we all know that no class in DnD sucks more than the Samurai. So here my idea for a class that would at least make it back into tier 4, or even possibly 3.
The Samurai Revision 2 from 07/17/2008
Hit Die: d10 Alignment: Any Lawful Base attack bonus: as Fighter Saves: Good Fortitude, poor Reflex and Will Weapon proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, bastard sword Skill points at each level: 2+Int modifier Class skills: Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (nobility and Royalty), Listen, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim
Class abilities per level 1 - Combat Style: Sempai 2 - Kiai pool, Kiai smite 3 - Iron Resolve 4 - Kiai surge 5 - Feat: Quick Draw 6 - Combat Style: Renshi 7 - Kiai alacrity 8 - Staredown 9 - Armor Mastery 10 - Improved Staredown 11 - Combat Style: Kyoshi 12 - Kiai roar 13 - Rapid staredown 14 - Adamantine Resolve 15 - Kiai burst 16 - Combat Style: Hanshi 17 - Intuitive Defense 18 - Armor Perfection 19 - Kiai fury 20 - Combat Style: Menkyo Kaiden
Combat Style (Ex): A samurai must specialize in a way of fighting, chosen upon gaining her first samurai level. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. The three possible choices are Iaijutsu, Niten, and Kyudo. Below are listed the benefits of each style. Iaijutsu: Iaijutsu is the art of ritual duel. The Samurai focuses on the use of the katana (bastard sword) in a precise and determined way. You gain the benefits of this combat style only when wielding a katana (bastard sword) and no other weapon or shield. Iaijutsu Sempai: At 1st level, you gain the Feat: Weapon Focus (bastard sword) Iaijutsu Renshi: At 6th level, you gain the feat: Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword), even if you do not meet the prerequisites Iaijutsu Kyoshi: At 11th level, you gain the Feat: Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing), even if you do not meet the prerequisites Iaijutsu Hanshi: At 16th level, you may make an opposed Concentration skill check as a swift action with a target you threaten in melee combat. If you beat the check by at least 1, the target is considered flat-footed agaist your next attack. A target with Improved Uncanny Dodge can only be caught flat-footed if you ahve at least 4 more samurai levels than the target has levels in the class that grants Uncanny Dodge. Iaijutsu Menkyo Kaiden: At 20th level, you deal double damage against flat-footed targets or targets that are denied their Dex bonus to AC.
Niten: Complex and impressive, Niten is the art of fighting with two swords. You gain the benefit of this combat style only while wielding two swords (any weapon with "sword" in its name plus dagger and kukri) or a two-bladed sword. Niten Sempai: At 1st level, you gain the Feat: Two-Weapon Fighting, even if you do not meet the prerequisites Niten Renshi: At 6th level, you gain the Feat: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, even if you do not meet the prerequisites Niten Kyoshi: At 11th level, you gain the Feat: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, even if you do not meet the prerequisites Niten Hanshi: At 16th level, you gain the Feat: Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing), even if you do not meet the prerequisites. Niten Menkyo Kaiden: At 20th level, you gain the Feat: Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting, even if you do not meet the prerequisites.
Kyudo: The samurai's archery, Kyudo, is a quiet and meditative style that relies on intuition rather than vision. You gain the benefits of this combat style only while wielding a bow. Kyudo Sempai: At 1st level, you gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls with bows. This benefit does not stack with Weapon Focus. Kyudo Renshi: At 6th level, you gain a +2 bonus on damage rolls with bows. This benefit does not stack with Weapon Specialization. Kyudo Kyoshi: At 11th level, you gain the Feat: Ranged Weapon Mastery (Piercing), even if you do not meet the prerequisites. Kyudo Hanshi: At 16th level, you no longer provoke attacks of opportunity from firing a bow in melee. Kyudo Menkyo Kaiden: At 20th level, you may fire an arrow at any foe within range to which you have line of effect that provokes an attack of opportunity from you or any of your allies. You may use this ability a number of times per round equal to 1+your Dexterity modifier (minimum 1).
Kiai Pool (Ex): At 2nd level, a samurai can start performing awe-inspiring combat manoeuvers by tapping into an energy reserve fueled by his willpower and skill. To use those abilities, the Samurai must spend Kiai points from her Kiai Pool. This Kiai Pool contains a number of Kiai Points equal to half her Samurai level (round down) plus her Wisdom modifier (if any), and regenerates each day at dawn. Kiai abilities: Unless otherwise noted, you may use a given Kiai ability only once per round, regardless of the activation time. Kiai Smite (Su): Starting at 2nd level, by spending a Kiai Point as a free action, the Samurai may improve the next attack made in this round by adding her Charisma modifier (if positive) to the attack roll and her Samurai class level to the damage roll. This ability can be used more than once per round, but not twice on the same attack. Kiai Surge (Su): Starting at 4th level, by spending a Kiai Point as a standard action, the Samurai may heal a number of Hit Points damage equal to double her Samurai class level. Kiai Alacrity (Ex): Starting at 7th level, by spending a Kiai Point as a free action, the Samurai's initiative result increases by 2. Kiai Roar (Su): Starting at 12th level, by spending a Kiai Point as a standard action, the Samurai may impose a -2 penalty on attack rolls, damage rolls, skills checks, and saves against fear against every opponent within 60' that can hear her, for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). A successful Will save (DC = 10 + half class level, round dwon + CHA modifier) negates the effect. An opponent that successfully saves against this effect can no longer be affected by it for 24 hours. This ability is a fear effect. Kiai Burst (Su): Starting at 15th level, by spending a Kiai Point as a swift action, the Samurai may add her Charisma modifier (if positive) to her weapon damage rolls for 1 full round. Kiai Fury (Su): Starting at 19th level, by spending a Kiai Point as a free action, the Samurai gains Damage Reduction 5/-, a +4 Morale bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, and the benefit of a Haste spell for a number of rounds equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1).
Iron Resolve (Ex): At 3rd level, the Samurai gains a +2 bonus on Will saves, and a +4 bonus on saves against fear. This counts as Iron Will for the purpose of meeting class or feat requirements. The benefits granted by this ability stack with the Iron Will feat.
Staredown (Ex): Starting at 8th level, the Samurai gains a bonus equal to half her Samurai class level (round down) on Intimidate skill checks. Furthermore, she may use the Demoralize action in combat against any opponent within 30' that can see her.
Armor Mastery (Ex): At 9th level, the Samurai no longer suffers penalties to her land speed for wearing medium or heavy armor.
Improved Staredown (Ex): At 10th level, the Samurai may use the Intimidate skill against opponents normally immune to fear effects. However, she suffers a -6 penalty on her check.
Rapid Staredown (Ex): At 13th level, The Samurai may use the Demoralize action in combat as a free action a number of times equal to half her Samurai class level (round down).
Adamantine Resolve (Su): At 14th level, the Samurai is immune against fear effects. Furthermore, he gains Slippery Mind (see the Rogue's class feature), but as a Supernatural rather than an Extraordinary ability.
Intuitive Defense (Su): A Samurai who reaches 17th level reacts with supernatural intuition against incoming attacks. She gains an Insight bonus to armor class equal to her Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). This bonus applies against all attacks, even when the Samurai is flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, but not when she is unconscient or held immobile.
Armor Perfection (Ex): Upon reaching 18th level, a Samurai ignores the Armor Check Penalty on skill checks of any armor she wears and with whom she is proficient. Furthermore, the Maximum Dexterity Bonus allowed by those armors increases by 2.
Feel free to react, comment, etc.
Revision 1 - added Concentration as class skill - added class level in the ability description - described the Kiai surge ability I had forgotten - changed the Deflection bonus from Intuitive defense to an Insight bonus.
Revision 2 - defined the duration of Kiai Roar and how to resist it
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 08:48:33 AM by katans »
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Prime32
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2008, 03:07:43 PM » |
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Seems better but isn't Intuitive Defense a little high-level? It might be better if you granted the monk's AC bonus at 1st level but also proficiency with heavy armour, so that a samurai character can choose whether or not to wear armour. You could improve the AC bonus (keeping it restricted to unarmoured) at the same level the samurai receives Armour Mastery.
Also, why isn't Concentration a class skill?
Why don't the Kyudo abilities count as Weapon Focus when the Iaijutsu ones do?
What about increasing the power of Kiai Smite and requiring a move action to charge it (something like the soulknife's psychic strike ability)? Samurai always seem to focus for a moment before making a powerful attack.
I tried a rebalance myself, which included the monk's Ki strike - with it, a samurai can cut through adamantine with a nonmagical katana.
I would also recommend including the levels at which abilities are gained in their descriptions - it makes the class easier to read.
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« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 03:14:56 PM by Prime32 »
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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AfterCrescent
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Posts: 4220
Here After
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2008, 05:08:16 PM » |
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Why is adamantine resolve Supernatural?
You may want to consider granting each combat style a bonus class skill. Iajutsu should probably have Iajutsu focus.
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PhaedrusXY
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2008, 05:59:51 PM » |
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Just use the one in Oriental Adventures. It gets two good saves (F+W), almost as many feats as a fighter (one less, I think), and an ancestral daisho.
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« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 06:15:34 PM by PhaedrusXY »
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?
Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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katans
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  
Posts: 178
All hail the Cheese!
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2008, 04:35:39 AM » |
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Thanks all for the feedback! OK, I'll try and answer all the questions. - The thing with the monk's AC is that it would make the unarmored samurai clearly MAD. As I see it, a samurai needs Con, Cha, and Str or Dex. Throw in Wis as well and there'd be a strong discrepancy in power level between armored and unarmored. Typically te Samurai will only need Wis for skills and a slightly better Will save, meaning it will maybe be a 4th rank priority. The Intuitive Defense stuff was more a cherry on the top than anything else.
- Concentration should be a class skills, true. Forgot that.
- Kyudo abilities are basically WF/WS with all types of bows (short, long, great, foot...), allowing for greater flexibility, whereas Iaijutsu is plain WF: Bastard Sword. I wantend to balance this out by not letting it count as WF/WS.
- Kiai Smite as a move action... gotta think about it. It would lose interest at higher levels, though.
- I got Adamantine resolve's inspiration from the paladin's Aura of courage, which is Su. The Slippery Mind effect on top is pretty powerful and can be a prerequisite for epic feats or for prestige classes, hence the Su and not Ex to balance this a bit.
- Bonus class skills... can't think of any that would fit, given that Concentration is already a class skill. What do you suggest?
- Don't have OA. I toyed with the idea of granting the class a high Will save, but thought Iron/Adamantine resolve would fit better. Samurais were also know to be sometimes hot-tempered and easy to manipulate using their sense of honor, that does not match my idea of a high Will save. Bonus feats... mmh. I believe this version already grants a bunch of bonus feats and useful abilities that make up for the difference with the Fighter.
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« Last Edit: July 17, 2008, 04:47:13 AM by katans »
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Prime32
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2008, 08:38:27 AM » |
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Thanks all for the feedback! OK, I'll try and answer all the questions. - The thing with the monk's AC is that it would make the unarmored samurai clearly MAD. As I see it, a samurai needs Con, Cha, and Str or Dex. Throw in Wis as well and there'd be a strong discrepancy in power level between armored and unarmored. Typically te Samurai will only need Wis for skills and a slightly better Will save, meaning it will maybe be a 4th rank priority. The Intuitive Defense stuff was more a cherry on the top than anything else. MAD is a good thing. If you wear heavy armour, your Wis doesn't matter. Likewise, if you don't wear armour... you don't have to pay for armour. It makes the class more flexible.
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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katans
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  
Posts: 178
All hail the Cheese!
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2008, 09:56:20 AM » |
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Got your point. Well, as a class variant, welcome the Musashi-Bushi.
Lose: Armor proficiency, Armor Mastery, Armor Perfection. Gain: WIS to AC (as Monk), armor bonus (as Monk).
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Midnight_v
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« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2008, 07:55:10 AM » |
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Got your point. Well, as a class variant, welcome the Musashi-Bushi.
Lose: Armor proficiency, Armor Mastery, Armor Perfection. Gain: WIS to AC (as Monk), armor bonus (as Monk).
Uhm... lose medium and heavy armor proficiency/ gain wis to ac in light armor as sword sage? I think the Staredown/improved stare down are uhm... wrong somehow. I know its a bit too strong I think its because in the end you're still at + 10 to intimidate people. + 4 to do it to paladins and undead. Futher its just really easy to do, and hard to oppose, I mean if you look at the fear builds they're already strong, this just makes em go nuts. Oddly I think Kai Shout should just be an emulation of the "fear" spell as it is now its sooo much like the hexblades curse. Lets say for instance we were to ... change Staredown: Gain the feat Skill focus "intimidate" and may demoralize within 30 feat. Improved Stare down: At 10th level, the Samurai may use the Intimidate skill against opponents normally immune to fear effects. However, she suffers a -6 penalty on her check. He may now demoralize as a Move action. And instead of "Rapid" just make it "Mass" and affect all within 30 feat. Standard action. Oh and I like your use of "void" points. Finally I'd like to tack on another Capstone ability along with the final fighting style. Do you have the tome of magic? I propose we give the revised samurai: Awe of the Emperor(su) At 20th level the samurai is under the effects of an efect similar to the sactuary spell. Any opponent attempting to strike or otherwise directly attack the Samurai, even with a targeted spell, must attempt a Will save DC 19 + Char. If the save succeeds, the opponent can attack normally and is unaffected by this ability and is immune to its effects for 24 hoursl. If the save fails, the opponent can’t follow through with the attack, that part of its action is lost, and it can’t directly attack the samurai for the duration of that round. This effect does not prevent the samurai from being attacked or affected by area or effect spells. Anyone the samurai attacks is likewise immune to this effects fro 24 hours .
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\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2008, 07:02:15 PM » |
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Katans, I like your mechanics, but a bit of your fluff could use some work. If you need help with Japanese names for the abilities I'd be happy to help.
In particular, I suggest changing the name Niten to Nitou. Also, at first level you wouldn't be a senpai... At best, a shoushinsha.
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Mister_Sinister
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« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 07:05:33 PM » |
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Nice Japanese-fu there, Kuro. Put me to shame, you do. 
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Everything I learned about DnD I learned from Frank Trollman at The Gaming Den... but nowadays, my work space is the New DnD Wiki. Check them both out!
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 08:42:18 PM » |
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Nice Japanese-fu there, Kuro. Put me to shame, you do. Try, I do.
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katans
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  
Posts: 178
All hail the Cheese!
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2008, 03:13:18 AM » |
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In particular, I suggest changing the name Niten to Nitou. Niten derives from Miyamoto Musashi's Niten Ichi-Ryu. Nitou would mean as much as "two swords" unless i'm blatantly mistaken, isn't it? Also, at first level you wouldn't be a senpai... At best, a shoushinsha.
You don't start your training at character level 1. Just like fighters, wizards, bards... samurai start learning their trade around age 8 and are ready for action ten years later. And if you don't make it to sempai in ten years, then there's something wrong with your training...
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2008, 01:30:34 PM » |
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Niten derives from Miyamoto Musashi's Niten Ichi-Ryu. Nitou would mean as much as "two swords" unless i'm blatantly mistaken, isn't it? That is correct. You don't start your training at character level 1. Just like fighters, wizards, bards... samurai start learning their trade around age 8 and are ready for action ten years later. And if you don't make it to sempai in ten years, then there's something wrong with your training... Being a senpai is a matter of seniority, not position. You always end up being someone else's senpai if you train long enough. Besides, D&D assumes that titles that come with levels start out small. You're first an apprentice, then an initiate, then a master, then a grandmaster (as an example, not specific to samurai).
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katans
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  
Posts: 178
All hail the Cheese!
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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2008, 02:38:49 AM » |
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Being a senpai is a matter of seniority, not position. You always end up being someone else's senpai if you train long enough. Besides, D&D assumes that titles that come with levels start out small. You're first an apprentice, then an initiate, then a master, then a grandmaster (as an example, not specific to samurai).
I understand that, and a 15 years old 1st level samurai with 8 years of training would definitely be sempai to his master's youngest apprentices. It's not even a title, unlike Renshi. Which is why I think it's good enough for 1st level.
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2008, 03:23:05 AM » |
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I understand that, and a 15 years old 1st level samurai with 8 years of training would definitely be sempai to his master's youngest apprentices. It's not even a title, unlike Renshi. Which is why I think it's good enough for 1st level. A samurai did not begin training with the sword until his mid-teens, so the assumption is a bit off, I'm afraid.
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katans
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  
Posts: 178
All hail the Cheese!
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« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2008, 04:41:37 AM » |
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 Why not? Sword is the most difficult weapon in a samurai's arsenal (you certainly know the saying "100 days for the hand, 1000 for the spear, 10000 for the sword"). Maybe you didn't get to touch a real sword until your coming of age, which was somewhere around age 14, but you certainly learned how to wield a bokken earlier than that.
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Elennsar
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« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2008, 04:52:47 AM » |
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I wonder how much of that is also "the most important".
Do you have anything showing the context of that quote?
I'm not arguing here. I'm just curious.
10,000 days...
Assuming one trains 5 days a week...
10,000/260: More than 38 years.
...
"Life long dedication to the sword"? Interesting.
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Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.
"Communication with humans." is a cross-class skill for me. Please bear this in mind.
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katans
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  
Posts: 178
All hail the Cheese!
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2008, 07:13:14 AM » |
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Do you have anything showing the context of that quote?
Smite me with a hail of D12's if I'm wrong, but I believe it is an actual quote from Sun Tzu's Art of War.
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2008, 12:30:42 PM » |
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Smite me with a hail of D12's if I'm wrong, but I believe it is an actual quote from Sun Tzu's Art of War. Who was Chinese and lived several centuries before the Samurai class even existed. I can understand that for jian, but I'm not sure it applies to katana (not that the comparison does not work, however). Why not? Sword is the most difficult weapon in a samurai's arsenal (you certainly know the saying "100 days for the hand, 1000 for the spear, 10000 for the sword"). Maybe you didn't get to touch a real sword until your coming of age, which was somewhere around age 14, but you certainly learned how to wield a bokken earlier than that. You clearly have never trained with a kusari-gama.  Seriously though, samurai training focused intensely on philosophy and the arts before the coming of age (including calligraphy, painting, etc. al). If he touched a bokutou, it was probably to play around, not train. This is mainly because the early samurai took up sword training as early as age 13, and this meant the court ended up with a bunch of illiterate barbarians who knew nothing of etiquette - just how to kill. This was changed a bit later so that samurai were more than simply warmongers.
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Elennsar
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2008, 05:04:01 PM » |
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Sun Tzu's wisdom rings true across the ages and the expanse of the continents and seas.
As to Samurai training in philosophy and the arts:
Here's a question. Samurai were ultimately a professional warrior caste.
To what extent did they really study philosophy and such?
At least during the period of Japan's civil war/s, I imagine the focus of a samurai would be war, possibly to the point of neglecting any higher understanding of the intellectual and spiritual areas.
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Faith can move mountains. It still can't deflect bullets.
"Communication with humans." is a cross-class skill for me. Please bear this in mind.
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