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veekie
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« Reply #360 on: July 02, 2011, 01:55:09 AM » |
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ViVid Damnit, did you hear that sizzling sound? My yuri-dar just went off the scale and exploded. I need a new one. Also, witches. I assume psychological/fear-based warfare is involved here? |
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Cubey
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« Reply #361 on: July 02, 2011, 11:52:56 AM » |
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Let me rant a bit. Not about ViVid, but series with tournament arcs in general.
Now, I didn't read or watch them all, but you know what I'd want to see? The main characters losing the elimination round. And I don't mean them being unlucky enough to face against other main characters, rivals or named bad guys - just lose to unnamed filler participants.
Because just because the main cast is trying hard to practice their skills, technique and strength doesn't mean they're the only people in the world that do that. It somehow sends the message that the main characters are somehow special, and can lose or have a hard time only against other special people. The non-special can be safely ignored.
The same applies to non-tournament series, but to a lesser extent: that's because usually, when the characters lose it means they friggin' DIE or otherwise suffer a plot-wrecking loss. This is why Tomino killing off Amuro at the end of his (non-canon) novelisation of the first Gundam to the hands of Char's unnamed wingmen feels like such an anticlimax. But in a tournament arc? The characters just eat a piece of humble pie and move on. No harm done.
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #362 on: July 02, 2011, 12:20:41 PM » |
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In series with good tournament arcs, the good guys suffer to get by even against 'filler' characters. An example from Yu Yu Hakusho: In the fight against team Ichigaki, Yusuke has lost the ability to use spiritual attacks because he overdid it in the previous round. Hiei's right arm has been inutilized due to his use of the Jaou Ensatsu Kokuryuu Ha, and both him and Kurama have been held back from returning to the stadium due to a mecha Ichigaki sent after them.
Cue free-for-all fight with team Ichigaki up against team Urameshi. To top it off, the techniques used by the members of Ichigaki's team (a group of martial artists who sold themselves as guinea pigs so Ichigaki would heal their ailing master) are refined enough that for all effects and purposes, they are invisible. (So despite being 'filler' characters, they do have some degree of competence.) The team is controlled by a large, bulbous device on their backs, but forceful removal of the device equates death for them.
All the while, Ichigaki delights on how little chance they have to win without Hiei and Kurama on the team. Kuwabara senses their plight and tries to talk them back into humanity, which only manages to get him smacked around like a ragdoll.
The resolution of the fight itself involves Hiei and Kurama showing up with the ailing master, explaining that Ichigaki poisoned him to look like he was sick (which managed to reach out to the team and immobilize them long enough for the Masked Lady to KO them with some technique that sent the bulbous devices flying), and Yusuke getting pissed, recovering his spiritual power and proceeding to pound the crap outta Ichigaki.
Regardless of the outcome, this was easily one of the toughest fights the team had to endure up to that point, and if it weren't for the Masked Lady, they could have well lost the match.
Adding insult to injury, they had to proceed to the next match immediately afterwards. Thanks to trickery on the opposite team's part, Hiei and the Masked Lady get forcefully benched, and they have to face an elimination-style matchup with two people on five (with Kuwabara having suffered heavy damage on the previous match, he didn't count). |
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #363 on: July 02, 2011, 01:16:06 PM » |
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In series with good tournament arcs, the good guys suffer to get by even against 'filler' characters. An example from Yu Yu Hakusho: In the fight against team Ichigaki, Yusuke has lost the ability to use spiritual attacks because he overdid it in the previous round. Hiei's right arm has been inutilized due to his use of the Jaou Ensatsu Kokuryuu Ha, and both him and Kurama have been held back from returning to the stadium due to a mecha Ichigaki sent after them.
Cue free-for-all fight with team Ichigaki up against team Urameshi. To top it off, the techniques used by the members of Ichigaki's team (a group of martial artists who sold themselves as guinea pigs so Ichigaki would heal their ailing master) are refined enough that for all effects and purposes, they are invisible. (So despite being 'filler' characters, they do have some degree of competence.) The team is controlled by a large, bulbous device on their backs, but forceful removal of the device equates death for them.
All the while, Ichigaki delights on how little chance they have to win without Hiei and Kurama on the team. Kuwabara senses their plight and tries to talk them back into humanity, which only manages to get him smacked around like a ragdoll.
The resolution of the fight itself involves Hiei and Kurama showing up with the ailing master, explaining that Ichigaki poisoned him to look like he was sick (which managed to reach out to the team and immobilize them long enough for the Masked Lady to KO them with some technique that sent the bulbous devices flying), and Yusuke getting pissed, recovering his spiritual power and proceeding to pound the crap outta Ichigaki.
Regardless of the outcome, this was easily one of the toughest fights the team had to endure up to that point, and if it weren't for the Masked Lady, they could have well lost the match.
Adding insult to injury, they had to proceed to the next match immediately afterwards. Thanks to trickery on the opposite team's part, Hiei and the Masked Lady get forcefully benched, and they have to face an elimination-style matchup with two people on five (with Kuwabara having suffered heavy damage on the previous match, he didn't count). Those two matches were still really good too. That entire arc had some great fights. Let me rant a bit. Not about ViVid, but series with tournament arcs in general.
Now, I didn't read or watch them all, but you know what I'd want to see? The main characters losing the elimination round. And I don't mean them being unlucky enough to face against other main characters, rivals or named bad guys - just lose to unnamed filler participants.
Because just because the main cast is trying hard to practice their skills, technique and strength doesn't mean they're the only people in the world that do that. It somehow sends the message that the main characters are somehow special, and can lose or have a hard time only against other special people. The non-special can be safely ignored.
The same applies to non-tournament series, but to a lesser extent: that's because usually, when the characters lose it means they friggin' DIE or otherwise suffer a plot-wrecking loss. This is why Tomino killing off Amuro at the end of his (non-canon) novelisation of the first Gundam to the hands of Char's unnamed wingmen feels like such an anticlimax. But in a tournament arc? The characters just eat a piece of humble pie and move on. No harm done.
I do understand where you are coming from with this, but keep in mind that these tournament arcs often have something plot-vital at the end (Dragonball being an exception; I have to say that's one of the things about the Buu saga that I actually really enjoyed). If the main characters fail to obtain that plot device, then it requires something to happen afterwards to either replace it or to continue the plot. Like what happened in Negima (the second tournament arc, not the Mahora one). They had no way to actually get that kind of money without some really questionable methods (there are some other options, but none as time-effective as the Tournament). |
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #364 on: July 02, 2011, 01:39:25 PM » |
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In series with good tournament arcs, the good guys suffer to get by even against 'filler' characters. An example from Yu Yu Hakusho: In the fight against team Ichigaki, Yusuke has lost the ability to use spiritual attacks because he overdid it in the previous round. Hiei's right arm has been inutilized due to his use of the Jaou Ensatsu Kokuryuu Ha, and both him and Kurama have been held back from returning to the stadium due to a mecha Ichigaki sent after them.
Cue free-for-all fight with team Ichigaki up against team Urameshi. To top it off, the techniques used by the members of Ichigaki's team (a group of martial artists who sold themselves as guinea pigs so Ichigaki would heal their ailing master) are refined enough that for all effects and purposes, they are invisible. (So despite being 'filler' characters, they do have some degree of competence.) The team is controlled by a large, bulbous device on their backs, but forceful removal of the device equates death for them.
All the while, Ichigaki delights on how little chance they have to win without Hiei and Kurama on the team. Kuwabara senses their plight and tries to talk them back into humanity, which only manages to get him smacked around like a ragdoll.
The resolution of the fight itself involves Hiei and Kurama showing up with the ailing master, explaining that Ichigaki poisoned him to look like he was sick (which managed to reach out to the team and immobilize them long enough for the Masked Lady to KO them with some technique that sent the bulbous devices flying), and Yusuke getting pissed, recovering his spiritual power and proceeding to pound the crap outta Ichigaki.
Regardless of the outcome, this was easily one of the toughest fights the team had to endure up to that point, and if it weren't for the Masked Lady, they could have well lost the match.
Adding insult to injury, they had to proceed to the next match immediately afterwards. Thanks to trickery on the opposite team's part, Hiei and the Masked Lady get forcefully benched, and they have to face an elimination-style matchup with two people on five (with Kuwabara having suffered heavy damage on the previous match, he didn't count). Those two matches were still really good too. That entire arc had some great fights. Let me rant a bit. Not about ViVid, but series with tournament arcs in general.
Now, I didn't read or watch them all, but you know what I'd want to see? The main characters losing the elimination round. And I don't mean them being unlucky enough to face against other main characters, rivals or named bad guys - just lose to unnamed filler participants.
Because just because the main cast is trying hard to practice their skills, technique and strength doesn't mean they're the only people in the world that do that. It somehow sends the message that the main characters are somehow special, and can lose or have a hard time only against other special people. The non-special can be safely ignored.
The same applies to non-tournament series, but to a lesser extent: that's because usually, when the characters lose it means they friggin' DIE or otherwise suffer a plot-wrecking loss. This is why Tomino killing off Amuro at the end of his (non-canon) novelisation of the first Gundam to the hands of Char's unnamed wingmen feels like such an anticlimax. But in a tournament arc? The characters just eat a piece of humble pie and move on. No harm done.
I do understand where you are coming from with this, but keep in mind that these tournament arcs often have something plot-vital at the end (Dragonball being an exception; I have to say that's one of the things about the Buu saga that I actually really enjoyed). If the main characters fail to obtain that plot device, then it requires something to happen afterwards to either replace it or to continue the plot. Like what happened in Negima (the second tournament arc, not the Mahora one). They had no way to actually get that kind of money without some really questionable methods (there are some other options, but none as time-effective as the Tournament). No question about it! I was just pointing out that the best tournament plots usually have the characters suffering even when their opponents are 'filler'. |
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder
Posts: 7534
Modding since 03/12/10
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« Reply #365 on: July 02, 2011, 01:56:08 PM » |
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Let me rant a bit. Not about ViVid, but series with tournament arcs in general.
Now, I didn't read or watch them all, but you know what I'd want to see? The main characters losing the elimination round. And I don't mean them being unlucky enough to face against other main characters, rivals or named bad guys - just lose to unnamed filler participants.
Because just because the main cast is trying hard to practice their skills, technique and strength doesn't mean they're the only people in the world that do that. It somehow sends the message that the main characters are somehow special, and can lose or have a hard time only against other special people. The non-special can be safely ignored.
The same applies to non-tournament series, but to a lesser extent: that's because usually, when the characters lose it means they friggin' DIE or otherwise suffer a plot-wrecking loss. This is why Tomino killing off Amuro at the end of his (non-canon) novelisation of the first Gundam to the hands of Char's unnamed wingmen feels like such an anticlimax. But in a tournament arc? The characters just eat a piece of humble pie and move on. No harm done.
I've seen it happen. |
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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veekie
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« Reply #366 on: July 02, 2011, 05:02:54 PM » |
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Let me rant a bit. Not about ViVid, but series with tournament arcs in general.
Now, I didn't read or watch them all, but you know what I'd want to see? The main characters losing the elimination round. And I don't mean them being unlucky enough to face against other main characters, rivals or named bad guys - just lose to unnamed filler participants.
Because just because the main cast is trying hard to practice their skills, technique and strength doesn't mean they're the only people in the world that do that. It somehow sends the message that the main characters are somehow special, and can lose or have a hard time only against other special people. The non-special can be safely ignored.
The same applies to non-tournament series, but to a lesser extent: that's because usually, when the characters lose it means they friggin' DIE or otherwise suffer a plot-wrecking loss. This is why Tomino killing off Amuro at the end of his (non-canon) novelisation of the first Gundam to the hands of Char's unnamed wingmen feels like such an anticlimax. But in a tournament arc? The characters just eat a piece of humble pie and move on. No harm done.
In ViVid's case we have plenty of secondary characters who can afford to have their butts kicked, so its probably cool. |
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #367 on: July 02, 2011, 05:58:43 PM » |
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Let me rant a bit. Not about ViVid, but series with tournament arcs in general.
Now, I didn't read or watch them all, but you know what I'd want to see? The main characters losing the elimination round. And I don't mean them being unlucky enough to face against other main characters, rivals or named bad guys - just lose to unnamed filler participants.
Because just because the main cast is trying hard to practice their skills, technique and strength doesn't mean they're the only people in the world that do that. It somehow sends the message that the main characters are somehow special, and can lose or have a hard time only against other special people. The non-special can be safely ignored.
The same applies to non-tournament series, but to a lesser extent: that's because usually, when the characters lose it means they friggin' DIE or otherwise suffer a plot-wrecking loss. This is why Tomino killing off Amuro at the end of his (non-canon) novelisation of the first Gundam to the hands of Char's unnamed wingmen feels like such an anticlimax. But in a tournament arc? The characters just eat a piece of humble pie and move on. No harm done.
I've seen it happen.About to link that, actually. |
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Nick
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« Reply #368 on: July 02, 2011, 10:38:52 PM » |
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« Last Edit: July 02, 2011, 10:42:12 PM by Nick »
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"You'll still be living in caves." "Hell I don't mind that." befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system. |
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Cubey
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« Reply #369 on: July 02, 2011, 11:33:57 PM » |
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Well, damn. I was mid-way of writing a long and thoughtful post.
And then everything just fled my mind and I was left with an empty head. So I'll just say, I'm happy you linked exceptions to the rule.
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Agita
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« Reply #370 on: July 03, 2011, 09:25:01 PM » |
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veekie
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« Reply #371 on: July 04, 2011, 01:24:32 AM » |
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Well, thats one way to clear weeds. |
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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Nick
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« Reply #372 on: July 07, 2011, 08:21:24 AM » |
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"You'll still be living in caves." "Hell I don't mind that." befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system. |
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oslecamo
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« Reply #373 on: July 07, 2011, 09:15:48 AM » |
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Nick
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« Reply #374 on: July 07, 2011, 09:46:35 AM » |
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"You'll still be living in caves." "Hell I don't mind that." befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system. |
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oslecamo
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« Reply #375 on: July 07, 2011, 09:53:24 AM » |
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Nick
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« Reply #376 on: July 07, 2011, 11:21:33 AM » |
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"You'll still be living in caves." "Hell I don't mind that." befriend (v.): to use mecha-class beam weaponry to inflict grievous bodily harm on a target in the process of proving the validity of your belief system. |
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Cubey
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« Reply #377 on: July 07, 2011, 02:40:15 PM » |
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New Negima? This better be good. *reads*  Also, that strategically-placed speech bubble obscuring another speech bubble. You know which one. |
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Sinfire Titan
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« Reply #378 on: July 07, 2011, 02:43:40 PM » |
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veekie
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« Reply #379 on: July 07, 2011, 02:59:04 PM » |
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Short version: FUCK YEAH! Awww fuck, Akamatsu is off to 'research' his wife for a week again. |
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The mind transcends the body. It's also a little cold because of that. Please get it a blanket. I wish I could read your mind, I can barely read mine. "Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill
To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
There is no higher price than 'free'. "I won't die. I've been ordered not to die." |
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