Natural Weapons and You: A Mini-Guide

[DrPhro]

This is where is just becomes simpler to use the Beast strike feat, which adds your natural attack damage to your unarmed strikes. This allows you to still get your natural attack damage on a flurry and makes it so that you don't have to take as many penalties for each attack. I personally like it just because it speeds up game play. The only problem is that it came out of dragon magazine.

[nijineko]

i allow all 100% official wotc material in my games... do you recall which dragon mag, by chance, please?

[skydragonknight]

Lots of talk of Totemists, but you're forgetting Totem Avatar's Shoulder bind which improves the damage of every natural weapon you have by one size category. So if you're already dipping Totemist then pick up Open Lesser(?) Chakra when you qualify...it's basically a superior Improved Natural Attack.

[Ed-Zero]

One thing that's still not clear to me (or maybe im just not seeing it as I did read the guide) is how primary attacks work with your iterative attacks.

Say you have 2 claw attacks, a bite attack then a BAB of +10/+5. Does this mean that you make your 3 primary attacks then can punch for a 4th primarily attack and one more punch with your last BAB?

+10: claw claw bite punch (1st BAB attack)
+5: punch (2nd BAB attack)

[Echoes]

One thing that's still not clear to me (or maybe im just not seeing it as I did read the guide) is how primary attacks work with your iterative attacks.

Say you have 2 claw attacks, a bite attack then a BAB of +10/+5. Does this mean that you make your 3 primary attacks then can punch for a 4th primarily attack and one more punch with your last BAB?

+10: claw claw bite punch (1st BAB attack)
+5: punch (2nd BAB attack)

Iterative attacks always take priority. You would make your iterative attacks at +10/+5, and then you could make your natural attacks as secondary attacks at +5. Now, if you have Imp. Multiattack you get the attack sequence you listed, but the natural attacks would only get 1/2 Strength to damage because they're still secondary attacks.

[awaken DM golem]

... and Solo too.

"Duelist" - no i think he is refering to  a class that advances both manifester and soulbinder.

And sorry for the confusion about LA and ECL.. I just copied from a doc, and didn't quite made it sense  :-)

That would be the Soul Manifester from the Mind's Eye column.

Right. Soul Manifester.

sry = go too fast and run = bad shorthand.




Thrikreen 2hd+2LA / Ardent 1 / Totemist 2 / Ardent +2 with Practiced Manifester feat
... at this point Ardent 3(+4) can pick the level 4 power in the back of MOI
that gives all those nifty binders for more Totemist goodies. Not bad for 9th level.
Begs to go Ardent 10 for DI. LA buy-off lets it happen a little after 14th level.

[Flay Crimsonwind]

Now, being a dragon automatically qualifies you for anything that requires the dragonblood subtype (which has hilarious side effects like qualifying for some PrCs out of the box), but it doesn't work the other way.

Oh really? As a guy playing a dragon in an upcoming game, what prcs might these be? Is it just being a dragon (aka dragon type) that gets you in, or the massive number of sorc casting levels that usually come with?

[Ed-Zero]

One thing that's still not clear to me (or maybe im just not seeing it as I did read the guide) is how primary attacks work with your iterative attacks.

Say you have 2 claw attacks, a bite attack then a BAB of +10/+5. Does this mean that you make your 3 primary attacks then can punch for a 4th primarily attack and one more punch with your last BAB?

+10: claw claw bite punch (1st BAB attack)
+5: punch (2nd BAB attack)

Iterative attacks always take priority. You would make your iterative attacks at +10/+5, and then you could make your natural attacks as secondary attacks at +5. Now, if you have Imp. Multiattack you get the attack sequence you listed, but the natural attacks would only get 1/2 Strength to damage because they're still secondary attacks.

Thanks for the quick answer and also for having it be easy to understand. I appreciate it Echoes.

[snakeman830]

Now, being a dragon automatically qualifies you for anything that requires the dragonblood subtype (which has hilarious side effects like qualifying for some PrCs out of the box), but it doesn't work the other way.

Oh really? As a guy playing a dragon in an upcoming game, what prcs might these be? Is it just being a dragon (aka dragon type) that gets you in, or the massive number of sorc casting levels that usually come with?

According to Races of the Dragon, simply having the Dragon type does it.  While possibly not RAI, they have a Silver Dragon being the example Singer of Concordance, despite it not meeting the Divine spellcasting prerequisite.

[gorfnad]

Blood Wind (SC) - spell that lets you make your natural attacks as ranged attacks out to a maximum of 20ft.

[nijineko]

that'll go nicely with this monk i know sporting a ring of greater mighty wallop....

[thorian]

The Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic) grants INA and deals 1 Con damage on a critical hit, which is a pretty useful property to have. Only costs 10,000 gp.

The Fanged Ring grants INA (unarmed strike) and the 1 Con damage is only on a crit with an unarmed strike.  Unarmed strike is NOT the same as a natural weapon attack (unless your natural weapon IS unarmed strike).  So this doesn't help claws, bite, gore, slam, etc.

[AtomicKitKat]

Blood Wind (SC) - spell that lets you make your natural attacks as ranged attacks out to a maximum of 20ft.

I remember that one. IIRC something about flying headbutts. It's basically the Natural Attack equivalent of "ranged slash"(that anime trope where you slash so hard and so fast that a blade of displaced air can cut someone).

[Talore]

Blood Wind (SC) - spell that lets you make your natural attacks as ranged attacks out to a maximum of 20ft.

I remember that one. IIRC something about flying headbutts. It's basically the Natural Attack equivalent of "ranged slash"(that anime trope where you slash so hard and so fast that a blade of displaced air can cut someone).

Turns out having your vampires dip a level of sorcerer, surprizing the party with ranged level drain, is pretty awesome.

[sirpercival]

Blood Wind (SC) - spell that lets you make your natural attacks as ranged attacks out to a maximum of 20ft.

I remember that one. IIRC something about flying headbutts. It's basically the Natural Attack equivalent of "ranged slash"(that anime trope where you slash so hard and so fast that a blade of displaced air can cut someone).

...which is a feat in Dragon Compendium, "Ring the Golden Bell".

[nijineko]

the spell works better though. less restrictive, and better range. plus it does not count as a ranged attack, thus you can use all of your melee-based feats and class features on your attacks. ergo, if you have whirlwind strike, you can extinguish every candle in range in a single round ala kung fu panda, among others.

[JaronK]

An important thing to consider: it's never declared in the rules, but it's assumed that slams use your hands if you have them.  This is why a Giant has slams, but a Giant Skeleton loses his slams in favor of claw attacks (which use the same thing) as opposed to getting slams + claws.  RAW that shouldn't happen, but the designers evidently intended it.  Worth noting, at least.

JaronK

[AtomicKitKat]

An important thing to consider: it's never declared in the rules, but it's assumed that slams use your hands if you have them.  This is why a Giant has slams, but a Giant Skeleton loses his slams in favor of claw attacks (which use the same thing) as opposed to getting slams + claws.  RAW that shouldn't happen, but the designers evidently intended it.  Worth noting, at least.

JaronK

Yeah, I figure Slams in D&D as being like sumo-slaps(see E-Honda). As delivered by a Large or bigger creature.

[bearsarebrown]

I've always assumed Slams work like Unarmed Strike. It's not "I hit it with my fist/foot/head/finger," as much as "I hit it with my kung fu."

I believe the rules support this.