The Time Lord's Sanctum

[LordBlades]

We are, but they are only being required if they group they are in fail their check.

I could live with that I guess (I can picture a brave leader being dragged away by fleeing comrades, it has happened on multiple occasions in history). My main dissatisfaction with the morale check system is that they're plain Will saves. Which means a 1st level wizard fresh out of wizard school that has never seen combat before is less likely to fleet a battlefield than most elite troopers (Fighter 5 has a Will save 1 point lower than the aforementioned wizard for example).

Also, do save bonuses vs. Fear apply to morale checks?

[Sohala]

Correct, as does immunity to fear.

[LordBlades]

Well, I've had a look at the Green Ronin system, and it looks good, although it has some ups and downs.

Here's my attempt at comparing the 2 sytems:

HoB pros:
-It's always about your character. No matter how many people you have under your command, you always get to do your own character's actions. Although, those character actions might not make too much difference once thousands of people become involved.
-It's simple. you don't have to be a master strategist as a player in order for your character's army to succeed

HoB cons:
-It's rigid. No matter what you actually do, it's all about how many VPs you achieve, and what predetermined result that number points at. This might lead to people feeling they can't really affect the outcome in a realistic way.
-It leaves a lot to DMs appreciation (or requires tedious work from the DM). If I, as a general order my 5000 elite swordsmen to attack the enemy 20000 light infantry, as a DM you have to either run a 25000 characters battle (which is pretty much out of the question) or simply guess the most likely result(which, depending on the DM and player's knowledge of military matters might be more or less what the player expected).

Green Ronin pros:
-It's a great tool to simulate a battle (of any scale).
-Makes the player see and feel the direct effect of their command decisions, rather than attribute an abstract value to them (VPs).
-It's objective.

Green Ronin cons
-It shifts the focus away from the characters. At company scale if you take character scale actions you can no longer give orders for that round(which probably hampers your army more than any character action would help), and at army scale you can't even take character scale actions. Scratch that actually. Army scale isn't meant to play out the battle (that's what company scale is for) but rather give a statistical tool to calculate the outcome (who wins, losses etc.) of battle you don't want/need to play out.
-Giving orders is based on a new skill (Command), which, in a game like ours, where all characters are expected to hold command positions, it practically introduces a skill tax.
-It relies very much on the player's wargaming skill. Regardless of how good a general your character is, you(the player) need to make good decisions in order to win a battle.



Overall, I can say I like Green Ronin system a lot more, and I think it might be what we need for this game with the following changes:
1) Don't restrict character actions (in company scale). Let the characters order units as appropriate for their rank, but don't prohibit them from also taking their own character scale actions. I'd like to be able to take part in the action that's going on around my character, but also keep directing the army in a meaningful way.
2) ditch the Command skill and replace it with a level-based benefit. My suggestion is level +Cha or command rating from HoB.
  

[McPoyo]

I'm up for using those changes. Would we be using command feats, as well, or waiving those?

If anyone doesn't have it, I can PM you the link to look through it.

[LordBlades]

I'm up for using those changes. Would we be using command feats, as well, or waiving those?

IMHO the command feats are interesting, although somewhat underpowered (like using a feat in order to be able to apply flanking or charge bonuses at company scale).

Also, it would be nice if we got an order of battle for the battle of the Galifar heirs. IMHO, being able to link our characters to a specific military unit (and track their progress through the ranks) would add a bit more RP depth than 'I'm in the army'.

[Bozwevial]

I'm up for using those changes. Would we be using command feats, as well, or waiving those?

If anyone doesn't have it, I can PM you the link to look through it.

That'd be greatly appreciated.

[Sohala]

First, I am delaying on actually making a ruling on the mass combat rules, other than what I have already stated, as I wish to get the first battle all set up and going. The mass combat rules, save the morale and rally rules, will have no effect on this battle as your level of control is near nothing.

Also, it would be nice if we got an order of battle for the battle of the Galifar heirs. IMHO, being able to link our characters to a specific military unit (and track their progress through the ranks) would add a bit more RP depth than 'I'm in the army'.

In an IC sense, the battle is a rushed thing. Thrane and Berland rushed to get troops to stop Cyre, while Cyre and surprised and then aided by Aundair. Making units wasn't an important thing for them.

I do understand the idea though, and had figured that after the first battle, you get promoted a level, and then get to 'start' your own unit, giving it a more personal feel.

[Sohala]

For the ease of book keeping, I would request that everyone make a note in the ‘additional information’ box on if they are taking the LA or stat decrease, any retraining they have done, which bloodline you are taking, and any ACF they are taking.

Sheet checks so far...

LordBlades

I don’t know the race, I am not complaining, but I wouldn’t mind a book and page.
(more to come with race)

Gods_Trick

Regardless that feats are not being able to be retrained for this, the wizard gained scribe scroll is a fixed feat. To retrain a feat to something else, it has to be selectable. If you wish not to have scribe scroll I suggest fighter feats instead.

Looks incomplete nevertheless

Bozwevial

Base saves should be F0R2W2
BAB should be 1.5

I don’t see anything else wrong

McPoyo

Alignment
Can’t find the cause of the penalty to AC
-2hp for Quick trait
Familiar, if you want one
Lack of equipment
Spells not prepped
Background missing
(yes, I know you already stated some of these)

bearsarebrown

4/day for darkness, they stack
State outsider type
Please add class features
+4 hp, we are using max
Please state which flaw
Alignment
Background missing

[Bozwevial]

Fixed those errors.

[McPoyo]

I had changed the trait to Quick, and forgot to change the penalty from the Aggressive trait properly.

Holding off on a familiar for now, I think.

The rest should be going up tomorrow morning.

[LordBlades]

Spiritfolk (mountan and river) are for Unapproachable East page 13. Nothing fancy about them, just that they're one of the very few races that qualify for Otherworldly.

Added the rest to the char sheet.

[McPoyo]

Alright, all done with my stuff, I believe.

Also, I just realized this, everyone picked colors that are dominate within their chosen nations. Mine was accidental, did it just work out that way for everyone?

[LordBlades]

Alright, all done with my stuff, I believe.

Also, I just realized this, everyone picked colors that are dominate within their chosen nations. Mine was accidental, did it just work out that way for everyone?

Not for me. I choose green because it was the color of Cyre (was completely undecided what to pick).

[Bozwevial]

Somewhat unintentional. I had intended to use navy as a sort of Brelish blue, but settled on the other color instead.

[McPoyo]

Somewhat unintentional. I had intended to use navy as a sort of Brelish blue, but settled on the other color instead.

Can't use navy until you become a bear cavalry rider

[Bozwevial]

Somewhat unintentional. I had intended to use navy as a sort of Brelish blue, but settled on the other color instead.

Can't use navy until you become a bear cavalry rider

Bear cavalry artillery, even. I almost regret not going that route now.

[McPoyo]

Somewhat unintentional. I had intended to use navy as a sort of Brelish blue, but settled on the other color instead.

Can't use navy until you become a bear cavalry rider

Bear cavalry artillery, even. I almost regret not going that route now.

Meh, you're an artificer. It's not like you still can't go that route. You won't be an ubercharger, but as an artificer, you don't really HAVE to do that to still wreak havoc from bearback.

Speaking of which, does riding bear-back impose the same -4 penalty as riding without a saddle?

*dodges flung fruit*

[Bozwevial]

Hence the artillery idea. No ubercharging, but I'm still wandslinging or whatever from the back of a bear. A cape to complete the image would be nice.

Speaking of which, does riding bear-back impose the same -4 penalty as riding without a saddle?

If it does, I'll just have to grin and bear it.

[McPoyo]

Speaking of which, does riding bear-back impose the same -4 penalty as riding without a saddle?

If it does, I'll just have to grin and bear it.

I see the thought of that penalty did not give you paws.

[Bozwevial]

Speaking of which, does riding bear-back impose the same -4 penalty as riding without a saddle?

If it does, I'll just have to grin and bear it.

I see the thought of that penalty did not give you paws.

Bear in mind that I'm an artificer and can make up for it with ease.