Prime32
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« on: July 13, 2008, 11:16:28 AM » |
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UPDATED 30/12/08
Arcane Archer RequirementsBase Attack Bonus: +5 Feats: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (any bow, other than crossbows), and any other feat with Point Blank Shot as a prerequisite. Spells: Arcane caster level 1st. Special: The character must either be an elf or receive training from another arcane archer.
| Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special | Spellcasting | | 1 | +1 | +2 | +2 | +0 | Enhance Arrow +1, Channeled power +1, Mystic strike, Ranged Channeling (one range increment) | - | | 2 | +2 | +3 | +3 | +0 | Suppress enchantment | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class | | 3 | +3 | +3 | +3 | +1 | Enhance arrow +2, Channeled power +2, Rapid Channeling (1/round) | - | | 4 | +4 | +4 | +4 | +1 | Ranged Channeling (three range increments) | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class | | 5 | +5 | +4 | +4 | +1 | Enhance Arrow +3, Channeled power +3, Rapid Channeling (2/round) | - | | 6 | +6 | +5 | +5 | +2 | Ranged Channeling (unlimited) | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class | | 7 | +7 | +5 | +5 | +2 | Enhance Arrow +4, Channeled power +4, Rapid Channeling (3/round) | - | | 8 | +8 | +6 | +6 | +2 | Phase Arrow | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class | | 9 | +9 | +6 | +6 | +3 | Enhance Arrow +5, Channeled power +5, Rapid Channeling (at will) | - | | 10 | +10 | +7 | +7 | +3 | Master's Strike | +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class |
| Hit Died8 Class SkillsThe arcane archer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Hide (Dex), Knowledge [arcana] (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), and Use Rope (Dex). Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier. Class FeaturesAll of the following are Class Features of the arcane archer prestige class. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An arcane archer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields. Spells per Day: At every even level, an arcane archer gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before he added the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before he became an arcane archer, he must decide to which class he adds each level of arcane archer for the purpose of determining spells per day. Enhance Arrow (Su): Every arrow an arcane archer nocks and lets fly becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the archer need not spend experience points or gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, an archer’s magic arrows only function for him. At 3rd level and every odd level thereafter, the magic arrows he creates gain +1 greater potency (+3 at 5th level, and so on). Instead of increasing his arrow's enhancement bonus, an arcane archer may instead add enchantments of equal cost to his arrows (for example, a 7th level arcane archer could treat all of his arrows as +2 flaming burst weapons). An arcane archer may change the enchantments placed on his arrows whenever he gains an arcane archer level (but see Suppress Enchantment below). Enhancement bonuses do not stack. Ranged Channeling (Su): An arcane archer can use a standard action to cast an arcane spell and deliver it through his weapon with a ranged attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke attacks of opportunity (though making a ranged attack might). The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action or less. If the attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally, then the effect of the spell is resolved. If the spell normally affects an area, the arcane archer may choose to have it affect only the target. The target of this attack must be within one range increment. At 3rd level, he may use this ability against a target within three range increments, and at 5th level he may use this ability against any target within range. Mystic Strike (Su): An arcane archer adds his primary spellcasting modifier as a bonus on damage rolls with ranged attacks. If he can cast spells from multiple sources he chooses the primary spellcasting modifier of one class. Channeled Power (Su): When casting a spell as part of his ranged chanelling ability, an arcane archer adds half his class level to his caster level. Suppress Enchantment (Su): At 3rd level, an arcane archer may suppress part of the enchantment of his weapons. Whenever he uses a magic bow or magic arrow, he may choose whether or not to apply each enchantment to his attacks. For instance, an arcane archer fighting a shambling mound with a +1 shocking longbow could suppress the bow's electrical damage to avoid healing the creature. This ability also allows an arcane archer to ignore the penalties applied by an oathbow. Rapid Channeling (Su): Once per round, an arcane archer of 3th level or higher may channel a spell through any ranged attack he makes. This allows him to channel a spell through one of the attacks in a full attack. The casting time of the spell is reduced to a free action taken before the attack. He may still only channel one spell through each attack. This otherwise functions as the Ranged Channeling class feature. An arcane archer may use this ability twice per round at 5th level, three times per round at 7th level, and any number of times per round at 9th level. Phase Arrow (Sp): At 8th level, an arcane archer can launch an arrow at a target known to her within range, and the arrow travels to the target in a straight path, passing through any nonmagical barrier or wall in its way. (Any magical barrier stops the arrow.) This ability negates cover, concealment, and even armor modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally. An arcane archer may use this ability with any attack he makes with a bow, but after using it he must wait 1d4 rounds before using it again. Master's Strike (Su): Once per encounter as a swift action, an arcane archer of 10th level or higher can make his next ranged attack a touch attack. In addition, he may lose any prepared arcane spell or spell slot to charge the attack with deadly energy. The target is affected by the finger of death spell - calculate the save DC as if it were cast by you, but use the level of the spell sacrificed instead of finger of death's level. Unlike the spell, this ability can affect non-living creatures (who are destroyed if they fail the saving throw). These bonuses can be applied only on an attack made before the beginning of your next turn. This ability may be combined with Ranged Channeling.
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« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 01:19:23 PM by Prime32 »
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Runestar
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2008, 10:02:19 PM » |
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I don't think 3/4 bab and 1/2 spellcasting cuts it anymore in 3.5 for a pure combat build, not when a fighter4/sor6 gives you the same results, and existing prcs like eldritch knight, bladesinger and spellsword show that there is nothing wrong with full bab/casting with no features, or full bab/half casting with class features (and these are already considered the slightly weak examples). I certainly don't see any harm improving it to full bab at least. 
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A clear conscience is the surest sign of a failing memory.
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AndyJames
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« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2008, 10:26:52 PM » |
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Personally, I leave the Arcane Archer as is and just add 5/10 or 8/10 caster to it (losing CL at 1 and 6). I would also expand the channel area spell ability to include touch and ranged touch spells as well at level 8. This is because I can think of tasty, tasty things you can do with a bow ranged Expanded Wings of Flurry... 
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« Last Edit: July 13, 2008, 10:29:04 PM by AndyJames »
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Stratovarius
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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2008, 06:59:53 AM » |
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The other option to look at is pushing into being a caster with the archery secondary, but with the BAB requirements that's hardly going to work all that well. You'd need Spellsword/Dragon Slayer, etc levels to slot in neatly.
I prefer AndyJames's suggestions for the class, since I don't think the 3/4 BAB is enough for the class. I might also lower the entrance requirements. I don't feel this is an overwhelming class, and archery isn't exactly the most optimal of battlefield choices.
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Prime32
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Organ Grinder

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« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2008, 01:30:14 PM » |
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I wasn't sure whether the class should have full or 3/4 BAB, and I figured 3/4 BAB was safer. I've changed it now. I would also expand the channel area spell ability to include touch and ranged touch spells as well at level 8. The class is now based on the channeling abilities of the duskblade, spellsword and enlightened fist. If you are entering as a duskblade, you can only channel touch spells until 4th level. I was going to add an ability similar to Hail of Arrows, but I figured there are plenty of ways to get that with spells and enchantments (it is already possible to treat all your arrows as +2 splitting arrows or +2 speed arrows even without them).
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« Last Edit: July 14, 2008, 01:36:31 PM by Prime32 »
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Stratovarius
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« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2008, 01:36:04 PM » |
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That's something I disagree with strongly, since you have taken a class that could accessed by almost any arcane class out there, and restricted it to three, two of which are prestige classes with no better justification for having channelled spells than this one. I would recommend switching back to the original requirement of not requiring existing channel touch attacks. Especially as this was designed for a Fighter/Wizard entry (It's Elven, after all), and changed it so that that build cannot enter the class at all.
A prestige class should not rely on another prestige class in a different supplement as the primary point of entry.
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Prime32
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« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2008, 01:41:13 PM » |
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I would recommend switching back to the original requirement of not requiring existing channel touch attacks. What if I also create a feat which lets any spellcaster channel spells a limited number of times per day, and each level of arcane archer increases the uses per day by 1? Especially as this was designed for a Fighter/Wizard entry (It's Elven, after all), and changed it so that that build cannot enter the class at all. The duskblade is very elven, Strat.  I see your point, though.
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Prime32
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Organ Grinder

Posts: 7534
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2008, 08:48:11 AM » |
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Okay, the class has been updated so that any arcane spellcaster (or even a warlock) can qualify for it. The entry requirements were already a little more flexible than the original, in that you can take Weapon Focus in an exotic bow, and you don't need Precise Shot (sure, it's good, but you might get the same effect from another source, or just want to wait).
I was considering a 1st-level ability which lets you add your primary spellcasting ability modifier to attack or damage rolls with bows, but that might just lead to people only taking the class as a dip.
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« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 08:51:38 AM by Prime32 »
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Eldariel
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2008, 06:01:25 PM » |
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I believe Swiftblade-casting works better than ½ casting. How many ½ casting classes do you really see people take beyond level 1? 6/10 hurts much less, especially early on as the loss of levels doesn't kick in as fast. Potentially you could also add an extra casting level on 10th for 7/10, but that seems a bit illogical. The other alternative is giving 10th some incredible ability. I did a version of this on Xmax, here. The Master Fletcher-ability is probably unnecessary (I wanted some of the Peerless Archer-feel into it and to showcase how an AA improves not only in Magic and Arcane Archery, but also in good ol' Archery), but other than that I'm really happy with it and would take the class all the way without a second thought, without still breaking the game (although since it's balanced against Swiftblade, it may be a rather strong Gish). Isn't the feat you created pretty much Smiting Spell without adjustment? Also, I feel the short range on channeling is an unnecessary drawback; Precision Archers already cover the 'shortrange archery'-role. Arcane Archer's DMG version specifically covers the 'long range'-role with just about all of the abilities being directed at using potent abilities at incredible ranges. Removing that just makes AA yet another Precision Archer; I feel if you're remaking it, you should make it the "long range archer" made right.
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 06:08:52 PM by Eldariel »
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NineInchNall
Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  
Posts: 182
I am NOT a cat.
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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2008, 06:06:39 PM » |
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Once your casting is more than two levels behind the curve, then it doesn't really matter in balance terms, 'cause you're seriously outgunned by your cohort.
So at that point start handing out the candy like it's Halloween in Candyland. Each such level should give an ability that is at least comparable in power to a spell that a Wizard, Cleric, or Druid of the same character level might get.
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Squirrelloid
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« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2008, 06:50:03 PM » |
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Once your casting is more than two levels behind the curve, then it doesn't really matter in balance terms, 'cause you're seriously outgunned by your cohort.
So at that point start handing out the candy like it's Halloween in Candyland. Each such level should give an ability that is at least comparable in power to a spell that a Wizard, Cleric, or Druid of the same character level might get.
QFT Or honestly, just don't make PRCs with less than full caster advancement. Or maybe losing 1 CL at 1st and otherwise full caster advancement. Full BAB is virtually *meaningless*. The idea that Full BAB means something is part of what got 3e into many of its problems in the first place. Ie, the Cleric Archer laughs at you.
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The ignorant shall fall to the squirrels. -Chip 4:2
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Eldariel
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2008, 05:45:19 AM » |
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Swiftblade and Ordained Champion do prove show that enough solid special abilities make up for multiple lost caster levels, or at least that a class can be kept playable even if it loses multiple CLs. I especially love Swiftblade as it loses a large number of casting without starting to suck; ultimately I feel that's where AA should be too - losing 3-4 CLs while still being worth taking all the way. Giving the ability to effectively cast two spells every turn on level 10 while still making a bow attack should go a long way towards that. Also giving a lot of scaling abilities (for example, scaling number of weapon abilities, scaling Arrow of Death DC, scaling ability to make more and more powerful Magic Arrows, scaling number of uses for all the special abilities, etc.) one makes the 10th level more attractive.
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder

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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2008, 06:04:54 PM » |
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*bump*
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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DetectiveJabsco
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2008, 10:02:21 PM » |
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Why not use the Seeker of the misty isles as a base for your casting progression? It seams to be the Divine brother to the AA.
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2008, 02:08:57 PM » |
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Needs more than half caster.
Full for all but 2 levels, perhaps the 1st and 6th levels only would be 'dead' for casting.
Remember that your benchmark is the Full Cleric Archer, a character still superior in defense, mobility, and ranged attack buffs.
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2008, 04:53:54 PM » |
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The suckiness of the channeling requirement has already been pointed out, as has the lack of a full casting progression. Personally, I dislike the idea of race-specific PrCs, and I think that "magical archer guy" is a broad enough concept to fit any race with which bows don't look downright funny. But that might be just me. CHANNEL SPELL [General] Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Arcane caster level 1st. Benefit: You may channel any arcane spell or spell-like ability you know with a range of touch into a melee attack. Casting a spell in this manner does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the attack is successful, the attack deals damage normally; then the effect of the spell is resolved. This ability requires a standard action if the spell had a casting time of 1 standard action or less. Otherwise, this ability takes the same amount of time as casting the spell normally. You may use this ability once per day, and one additional time per day for every 5 points of your Base Attack Bonus. Why are you creating a feat for something that anyone can do with a punch anyway? Also, which arcane caster would bother to get something like this when they could go JPM instead? Just remove the channelling prerequisite already - blasting is weak as is, and if you're making a gish to blast, you're doing something wrong.
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SiggyDevil
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2008, 09:42:26 PM » |
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OK then you have it mentioned yet again. Gawd.
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Prime32
Honorary Moderator
Organ Grinder

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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 02:44:59 PM » |
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What about shifting around the channeling abilities?
Prereqs: Remove Channeling 1st - You can channel spells 1/day/class level with ranged attacks within 30 ft. If you could channel spells already, you may now channel them through ranged attacks, and your uses stack. 3th - Your range increases to 60ft 5th - You can channel area or ranged spells without changing their area of effect. 7th - There is no limit on the range of your channeling ability. 10th - You may channel one spell through each ranged attack you make as part of a full attack. Is FOUR SPELLS PER ROUND AT INCREASED RANGE enough of a capstone?
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My workDeviantArtCurrent gamesThe tier system in a nutshell: Tier 6: A cartographer. Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman. Tier 4: An expert marksman. Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left. Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy. Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 02:59:08 PM » |
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What about shifting around the channeling abilities?
Prereqs: Remove Channeling 1st - You can channel spells 1/day/class level with ranged attacks within 30 ft. If you could channel spells already, you may now channel them through ranged attacks, and your uses stack. 3th - Your range increases to 60ft 5th - You can channel area or ranged spells without changing their area of effect. 7th - There is no limit on the range of your channeling ability. 10th - You may channel one spell through each ranged attack you make as part of a full attack. Is FOUR SPELLS PER ROUND AT INCREASED RANGE enough of a capstone? Sounds better. Why limit the channeling per day, though?
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Eldariel
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2008, 03:11:50 PM » |
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10th - You may channel one spell through each ranged attack you make as part of a full attack. Is FOUR SPELLS PER ROUND AT INCREASED RANGE enough of a capstone?
This I like. In fact, I'd use it in my rewrite if I were to do it again. I still suggest at the very least Swiftblade casting though - half-casting classes generally just suck.
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