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Author Topic: Seeking advices for an 'Evil' Summoner  (Read 1017 times)
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Shiki
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« on: January 15, 2011, 04:55:39 AM »

So I went through books which my DM has opened for the game. Those are Core, XPH, UA, Completes, Dungeonscape, [edit2]SpC[/edit2], [edit]and probably PH2, I'll ask for confirmation when I'll have the chance[/edit]; characters of 'x' race can pick things up from their Races of 'x' book. Starting at level 8 with standard WBL. Also, depending on the character's concept, I could probably be allowed to take things from books which are related to it like, MAYBE, Fiendish Codexes, Planar Handbook, other Monster Manuals... Big. Fucking. Maybe. Because, well, my DM and some guy in our party aren't too fond of me checking in myriads of books to make a character work as of late, as their motto is practically 'pulling anything out of your head is better than actually having your character have the skills to mechanically do said action and if it happens that you don't have the skills to do said action mechanically, pray for good rolls and/or DM fiat'. So like, yeah. It also happens that this is supposed to be a Good aligned game, so I thought the Malconvoker to be an excellent idea.

Now, what I really need are suggestions on what to choose to make this guy subtly efficient and being versatile within his specialization. He shouldn't need crazy things to work out perfectly, but having a nuke or two he could uses sometimes if things go awry might be a good idea. I, however, don't want to dabble in Craft Contingent Spell's and the likes, because these are just too much to my likings and probably will for my DM and that other guy.

Basic build idea:
Human Conjurer3/Master Specialist2/Malconvoker5/Master Specialist8/x2
Rapid Summoning, Enhanced Summoning and probably Focused Specialist
Noncombatant, Vulnerable?
Aggressive, Dishonest

1   Cloudy Conjuration, Extend Spell, Improved Initiative, Metamagic School Focus
3   Spell Focus (Conjuration)
4   Skill Focus (Spellcraft) [Master Specialist bonus]
6   Sculpt Spell
8   Skill Focus (Bluff) [Malconvoker bonus]
9   Summon Elemental
11   Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration) [Master Specialist bonus]
12   ?
15   ?
18   ?

I've got till next Thursday to patch this up. Nothing in the above spoiler is actually set in stone, though the general idea is.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated, and TYVM for at least reading this.  Hide
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 06:25:59 AM by Shiki » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2011, 05:03:27 AM »

In all honesty, Master Specialist isn't worth that much past 4th level. I recommend Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil over more MS levels (although that's a bit more work to get into, it has a higher payoff).

And are you using the Martial Wizard variant to get Improved Init over Scribe Scroll? Because that would be another bonus feat if you aren't.
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Shiki
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2011, 05:10:23 AM »

Mhm, I'll check into IotSV.

Wouldn't Martial Wizard and Enhanced Summoning not work together though? Since they both are variants that eats your Wizard's feats.
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Gnorman
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2011, 06:20:52 AM »

... my god... need... to... respond... to my chosen niche...

BLARGH

PARAGNOSTIC APOSTLE

ARCHMAGE

THAUMATURGIST

ALL OF THESE ARE BETTER IDEAS THAN MASTER SPECIALIST 10.

Anyway. Like what was said above - 4 is all you need, and even then maybe not really but it's better than wizard so sure. IotSV ain't your bag, so I can't recommend it. I like Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Malconvoker 8 / Thaumaturgist 5, but that's 'cuz I like binding - if you don't, take out three levels of Malconvoker and add in Paragnostic Apostle (for Fast Healing on your summons, really only needs one level but the rest is interesting gravy) or Archmage (for, you know, Archmage stuff) to taste.

Feats: Imbue Summoning. Fiendish Summoning Specialist. Demon Mastery. Stalwart Planar Ally. GOOOOOGLE-FUUUUUUUUU

Skills: Max out bluff, obviously, as well as as many monster-identifying knowledges and Sense Motive if you can spare it. Pick up AT MINIMUM the Collector of Stories skill trick.

Summons: Hey I wrote a whole guide on this: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 06:27:57 AM by Gnorman » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 06:33:53 AM »

Mhm, I'll check into IotSV.

Wouldn't Martial Wizard and Enhanced Summoning not work together though? Since they both are variants that eats your Wizard's feats.

True. Forgot about that part.
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Shiki
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 06:50:35 PM »

... my god... need... to... respond... to my chosen niche...

BLARGH

PARAGNOSTIC APOSTLE

ARCHMAGE

THAUMATURGIST

ALL OF THESE ARE BETTER IDEAS THAN MASTER SPECIALIST 10.

Anyway. Like what was said above - 4 is all you need, and even then maybe not really but it's better than wizard so sure. IotSV ain't your bag, so I can't recommend it. I like Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 4 / Malconvoker 8 / Thaumaturgist 5, but that's 'cuz I like binding - if you don't, take out three levels of Malconvoker and add in Paragnostic Apostle (for Fast Healing on your summons, really only needs one level but the rest is interesting gravy) or Archmage (for, you know, Archmage stuff) to taste.

Feats: Imbue Summoning. Fiendish Summoning Specialist. Demon Mastery. Stalwart Planar Ally. GOOOOOGLE-FUUUUUUUUU

Skills: Max out bluff, obviously, as well as as many monster-identifying knowledges and Sense Motive if you can spare it. Pick up AT MINIMUM the Collector of Stories skill trick.

Summons: Hey I wrote a whole guide on this: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5573.0

Looks neat. Smile I'll read through your guide, thanks for pointing that out.
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Shiki
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 08:31:17 AM »

After some reading, I'm starting to like me some Malconvoker/Thaumaturgist. Can I ask you what would be your build's progression by levels, class-wise, Gnorman?


Onto Thaumaturgist, would it be worthwhile to invest into Diplomacy for the Improved Ally ability? The alignment restriction is a bit of a let down though. Getting the Evil subtype would get me around that, but I've only found that ritual in Savage Species as of now, and I have the feeling I won't be able to get this through my DM when I'll have money to spare for it later on. Rolls Eyes Is there another way to get this subtype?

Also, I guess I could also make something decent out of a Sorcerer-based build, something along the lines of Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5 or Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker 8/Thaumaturgist 5/Paragnostic Apostle 1, or something. Infernal Sorcerer Heritage, Domain Access ACF, etc. I guess it is quite less potent than a Wizard-based build, but it has less issues with Cha checks. What tickles me most is casting time. Is there a way aside from Arcane Spellsurge to get standard action casting with SMs? The last line from Rapid Spell bugs me, and the spell slot increase aswell. [edit] I GUESS a Conjurer dip could make up for that.. if it weren't for that _huge_  delayed spell progression Bang Head [/edit]
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 08:36:24 AM by Shiki » Logged

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veekie
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2011, 09:08:10 AM »

Random thought, a Malconvoker variant thats evil and suckers celestials instead would be amusing.
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2011, 10:27:48 AM »

Well, there are better optimizers than me for a level-by-level build. Get to Malconvoker 5 ASAP, so that'll take care of you up until level 10. Then throw in Thaumaturgist, though note that you're gonna have to spend a feat (Arcane Disciple, Summoning Domain) and have a WIS score of 14 to do it. Note that the creature you have as an ally must be within one step of your alignment, so if you're Lawful Neutral, devils are still fair game. Might not work out for a Good-aligned game, though - but even in such a game, ain't nothing wrong with being neutral.

Malconvoker 9's only good for dismissing your summons as a free action if they turn on you, but that does have some utility. I'd rather sacrifice Master Specialist levels than Thaumaturgist ones, though - MS is handy, but hardly necessary. But if you're going to take it past 2, at least take it to 4 - that's when the real handy summoner goody kicks in. Even then, +1 HP/CL on your summons isn't going to make or break the build, especially when you have a Ring of Mighty Summons for max HP. Which you should get. ASAP. Oh, and an Admiral's Bicorne, because it's the D&D version of a pimp hat. For 51,000 gp, it's like having an 8th-level bard on your head.

Tentative plan: Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 2 / Malconvoker 5 / Thaumaturgist 5 / MS +2 / Whatever you like 3.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 10:33:09 AM by Gnorman » Logged
Shiki
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 06:25:40 AM »

Wow wait, I've actually misread something about Thamaturgist. Improved Ally/Planar Cohort doesn't work like I thought it did. Still, Contingent Conjuration is nice, though I'll consider other classes before this one I think. Thanks for suggesting it though.

Anyone has other suggestions? 

ps: SpC added in books allowed; forgot about that one. <<'
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