Best Base Class for an Ur-Priest/Nar Demonbinder/Mystic Theurge

[Cuindless]

I have 18 levels to play with, so I was thinking about making an Ur-Priest4/Nar Demonbinder1/Mystic Theurge10, but I can't seem to find a base class that fits all the parameters. It doesn't need to be a spell-casting class, but it does need to fulfill the saving throw and skill requirements. I'd also like it to not get to MAD. Does anyone have any suggestions for the best base class to start this build? Alignment restrictions are not a problem.

[Cuindless]

I forgot to mention that Unearthed Arcana and all setting specific books except Forgotten Realms books are out. So... No Savage Bard.

[Cuindless]

Hmm... Still no replies. That's okay. I've been working on a preliminary build, and I have a couple ideas. The one that seems most promising is Monk5/Ur-Priest4/Nar Demonbinder1/Mystic Theurge8. Monk is usually a weak class, but with the high saves and good skills it seems like the best option. Any feat suggestions? Practiced Spellcaster is obvious...

[ninjarabbit]

I like 3 levels of duskblade. It'll give you arcane channeling (which works with your Ur-priest spells like harm) and all knowledge skills. Maybe also a level of spellthief so you could abuse master spellthief and it gives you bluff as a class skill.

So maybe spellthief2/duskblade3/ur-priest4/nar-demonbinder1/MT8

[Havok4]

Binder also works well. You can also boost your binder level with Anima Mage.

[Ikeren]

I also really like working in Saves replacing manouvers and wall of blades if I can.

Warblade as the 5th level: Gets you D12, 4 skills, Will for Concentration, Reflex for Concentration, Wall of Blades to parry nasty rays which you have no trouble identifying by virtue of your high spellcraft ranks (+Divine Power...hehe) (or Emerald Razor, but wall of Blades has more long term worth)...as well as a stance (Punishing if you want to go beat down, the +AC one if not)...plus a renewal method for any ToB items you might end up with. (Grab the concentration for Fort save one and laugh at enemy spells).

Also, IIRC, Urpriest past 2 = waste of time. Replace with Divine Orcale 2 if you can spare the feat (or buy it for 3000GP! (YAY!)) or Church Inquisitor 2 if your DM lets you reflavour.

[Bozwevial]

Also, IIRC, Urpriest past 2 = waste of time. Replace with Divine Orcale 2 if you can spare the feat (or buy it for 3000GP! (YAY!)) or Church Inquisitor 2 if your DM lets you reflavour.

Doesn't Ur-Priest have Iron Will as a prerequisite anyway?

[Cuindless]

I want to stay away from Spellthief because then it starts looking too much like the Arcane Dilletante. Don't get me wrong, I like the Arcane Dilletante build, I just don't want to make what is basically a copy of that. Duskblade looks pretty nice, though the 2 skill points and Int-based casting might be a problem. With Ur-Priest requiring Wis and Nar Demondbinder requiring Cha we're already looking into the maw of MADness. A Warblade/Swordsage combination with Able Learner might also work...

Ur-Priest does require Iron Will anyway... And "Spell Focus: Evil"... Yeuchh. Still, for the spellcasting progression it can't be beat (except by Beholder Mage, but that's just cheesy). Taking 2 levels of Ur-Priest and following it up with a divine PrC isn't a bad idea, though Divine Oracle might be a little rough on this already feat-starved build. Unfortunately reflavoring is out of the question...

[Ikeren]

Doesn't Ur-Priest have Iron Will as a prerequisite anyway?

Isn't Divine Orcale Skill Focus: Knowledge Religion?

Also; the first 5 levels are really a question of what do you want to do?

Are you going to be a pure caster? Than Wizard 3/Prestige Class 2 follows in that line, will give you some versatility (as will any of the weaker casters; beguiler, etc). You don't wnat Int based casting, so Sorcerer or Warmage could go here.

Are you going to mix in some melee? Than ToB stuff can't be beat. Barbarian 1 (Pounce)/Cloistered Cleric 1 (If your DM lets you keep domain abilities or devotion feats, this is still worth it, knowledge devotion, travel domain or travel devotion, law's devotion, luck domain, celerity domain)/fill with Warblade/Swordsage/Crusader as pleased

Do you want to do the skills thing? Rogue 2 gets you evasion. (So does monk 2; which will also provide some feats and a substantial save boost).

It's sorta unclear what you want to do.


I'm working on a guide to cleric prestige classes; here are some other filler ideas:

1) If you can get 1d6 of sneak attack in your first 5 levels, 3 levels of Shadowbane Stalker (CAdv) --- this works well for the skilled version
2) Church Inquisitor, mentioned; might have DM troubles (CDiv)
3) Radiant Servant of Pelor; will likely have DM troubles (CDiv)
4) Sacred Exorcist; hit die bump and minor abilities. (CDiv)
5) Ruathar; might have DM troubles (RotW)
6) Divine Disciple, might have DM troubles (PGtF)
7) Justiciar of Tyr (PGtF): Might have DM troubles

[Cuindless]

I'm probably being a little unclear on what I want to do because I'm still a little unclear on what I want to do. An arcane casting class (Sorcerer, Warmage, etc...) would be nice, except that I'm not sure I'll get the skill ranks necessary to make it into Ur-Priest AND Nar Demonbinder both before level 10. I like the flavor of this character starting out as a monk before converting over to Ur-Priest, but flavor vs. optimization is always a big problem in my mind. I know, I know... Fluff is mutable (supposedly). The idea of a rigid, contemplative and devout person who trains their body and mind to perfection suddenly taking a left turn, forswearing their vows and stealing the same divine essence they once vowed to protect is an interesting character concept... What about Ur-Priest/Sacred Fist? Is this a good combo from an optimization standpoint?

[Ikeren]

I think generally what you do is decide what you want to play/do, then optimize around the concept. Either way; I offered decent options for the major choices in the level 1-5 range; as well as things to fill out Ur-Priest.

Sacred Fist makes basically no sense for this build. In terms of general optimization, you're mixing great (cleric) with awful (monk); the prestige class is almost passable if your DM lets you get full casting if you don't, run, run away.