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Midnight_v
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« Reply #440 on: January 09, 2011, 06:36:09 PM » |
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Relax dude. I know where you're coming from and I know what I want a samurai to do too Hmm... did I seem excited?  Forgive me perhaps I'm just waiting to see your grand works. . . |
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\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"
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Soda
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« Reply #441 on: January 09, 2011, 06:53:58 PM » |
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So the real fighter fix is to find one you like and play it.
I think this is real wisdom. I've been thinking for a while about how to make 3.5 more playable, as we all have been. I have a friend who plays a straight fighter or paladin every. single. time. With only PHB feats no less. How could I run a game with such an ineffectual character? How could I challenge the other players without killing him in every encounter? Should I nerf every spell? Should I take away DMM and spontaneous divination and wildshape? Should I change the entire CR system? Every feat? Every skill? Should I tweak every aspect of the game? Or should I have him play a warblade? A crusader. A tome class. Any rewrite under the sun. One day there might be a smooth, new system with all the flavor of 3.5. Until then, just play a good class. |
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Solo
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« Reply #442 on: January 09, 2011, 06:55:07 PM » |
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If your friend enjoys it, then that is his decision.
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Kuroimaken
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« Reply #443 on: January 09, 2011, 06:55:15 PM » |
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Relax dude. I know where you're coming from and I know what I want a samurai to do too Hmm... did I seem excited? Forgive me perhaps I'm just waiting to see your grand works. . . It's hard to think on a bloated head, dude, so don't get your hopes up too much.  |
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Midnight_v
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« Reply #444 on: January 09, 2011, 07:05:03 PM » |
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If your friend enjoys it, then that is his decision.
So what should he as a dm DO? Kill the dude every adventure, specifically NOT kill him every adventure. I had guy who wanted to play an elven fighter mage... and wanted to go into bladesiger or whatever, you know, but he really wanted to play a duskblade or something (Phb2 wasn't out yet) and every fight he'd yell "for Correllon!" and get beat the fuck down. It was a weird dynamic. I tried to talk to him about it cause he was clearly dejected but wouldn't change his concept, which was "Fighter/Mage" I tried to explain to him "Gish-iness" didn't have to specifically measure in fighter and wizrd levels.. he seem frustrated by that idea as well... a few years later I pointed to the duskblade. (he'd quit D&D for WOW by then) and talked to him about the duskblade and he said "Yeah thats pretty much what I wanted, it fit my story and flavor, and sounds like it would actually allow me to win a combat or two" I guess I could have sandbagged for him a bit, but when you run into the half circle of ogres... yeah even if you cut down one they're gonna do ya in. And that was just his style of fighter... He wasn't happy with it. For the record I play tons of Barb/Fighters myself. |
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\\\"Disentegrate.\\\" \\\"Gust of wind.\\\" \\\"Now Can we PLEASE resume saving the world?\\\"
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Solo
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« Reply #445 on: January 09, 2011, 07:18:18 PM » |
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Excellent question. I would not target him specifically, but if his character just cannot perform and contribute, I would not help too much.
Some lessons, like how come classes just suck, are better learned the hard way.
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Soda
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« Reply #446 on: January 09, 2011, 07:42:56 PM » |
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If your friend enjoys it, then that is his decision. See, but he doesn't enjoy getting kicked around, or attacking for 1d8+2. He enjoys being the badass warrior. Or the holy crusader. I personally love those archetypes too. It's not a problem of his, or mine, or the archetype. It's the game lying to him. He's wants FIGHTER. And the game tells him, "This is the class you're looking for". But it's a lie. The fighter or paladin class isn't what he wants. He wants the warblade or crusader. He gets misled because of the names and because those classes aren't in the PHB. It's just a misconception. Frankly, it's a misconception that could only be solved by going back in time, putting the warblade in the PHB, and calling it Fighter. Until then, new players are going to keep falling into that same trap. |
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Solo
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« Reply #447 on: January 09, 2011, 07:46:31 PM » |
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Why doesn't he pick a different class?
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dark_samuari
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« Reply #448 on: January 09, 2011, 07:54:30 PM » |
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I'll probably open up a thread of my own to discuss what a D&D samurai should be like. I would very much interested in such an endeavor. |
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Soda
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« Reply #449 on: January 09, 2011, 07:55:38 PM » |
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Why doesn't he pick a different class? Exactly. He just doesn't know. None of us knew at the time. We were all new to the game. We opened up the PHB, saw the paladin and said, "This must be the class that fights demons like fucking gandalf." We saw the fighter and said, "This must be the class that dives straight into the mob and kills 12 guys a second." We saw the ranger and said, "This must be the class that shoots out a goblin's eye from a thousand feet away." Those weren't wrong assumptions. It SHOULD have been that way. But it just isn't. You CAN be those people. Just not with those classes. The problem disappears if one player knows this stuff and the other players are reasonable enough to listen. All it takes is saying, "I know you want to be the incredible warrior who fights armies and grapples giants and smashes through walls. You should really look at the warblade." But a lot of times you end up with, "No, I want to be a Fighter." |
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Solo
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« Reply #450 on: January 09, 2011, 07:59:19 PM » |
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Then let them have what they want and trust cognitive dissonance to do the work of making them happy for you. Problem solved, your welcome.
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 08:01:01 PM by Solo »
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Soda
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« Reply #451 on: January 09, 2011, 08:33:39 PM » |
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Then let them have what they want and trust cognitive dissonance to do the work of making them happy for you. Problem solved, your welcome.
So your solution to making 3.5 a more balanced, fun experience out of the box is, "Fuck you, spend years learning how to play on the internet like we all did"? |
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Cephid Arcanis
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« Reply #452 on: January 09, 2011, 08:41:02 PM » |
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Then let them have what they want and trust cognitive dissonance to do the work of making them happy for you. Problem solved, your welcome.
So your solution to making 3.5 a more balanced, fun experience out of the box is, "Fuck you, spend years learning how to play on the internet like we all did"? Maybe I'm missing something here, but if you manage to make a "more balanced, fun experience out of the box" are you going to publish it? are people who haven't spent years on the net even going to know of your new system? If not and it really is just for us, then why not just use the better classes and some optomization? |
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"It is the mark of a practiced mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it"
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Mixster
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« Reply #453 on: January 09, 2011, 09:07:50 PM » |
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Samurai should also be able to honor things to death. With honor.
And prepare sushi! To kill someone! And scream things to death by yelling BANZAI! And Catch spells with chopsticks Now that would be and awesome class to play. |
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Monks are pretty much the best designed class ever.
JaronK
Meep Meep - Mixster out |
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Littha
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« Reply #454 on: January 09, 2011, 09:09:25 PM » |
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And prepare sushi! To kill someone! What? badly? |
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #455 on: January 09, 2011, 09:13:43 PM » |
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Have you heard of the new sushi place?
The food's to die for!
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Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #456 on: January 09, 2011, 09:21:16 PM » |
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Have you heard of the new sushi place?
The food's to die for!
They serve blowfish sashimi. |
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The_Mad_Linguist
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« Reply #457 on: January 09, 2011, 09:22:51 PM » |
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Have you heard of the new sushi place?
The food's to die for!
They serve blowfish sashimi.  |
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Solo
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« Reply #458 on: January 09, 2011, 09:30:11 PM » |
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So your solution to making 3.5 a more balanced, fun experience out of the box is, "Fuck you, spend years learning how to play on the internet like we all did"?
Yes. And he'll have to use a 56k modem to do it so the electricity travels uphill both ways. |
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Lycanthromancer
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« Reply #459 on: January 09, 2011, 09:32:20 PM » |
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So your solution to making 3.5 a more balanced, fun experience out of the box is, "Fuck you, spend years learning how to play on the internet like we all did"?
Yes. And he'll have to use a 56k modem to do it so the electricity travels uphill both ways. In the snow. |
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